When Is a Bass Worth it?

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1377344667' post='2186492']
Doesnt feel like this signals the death knell of the high end business
[/quote]

come to medway towns

loads of students - plenty of young bands - some of them exceptionally good - none of them playing boutique gear

Squier rules!!

Edited August 24, 2013 by steve-bbb

[molan]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1377362070' post='2186761']


come to medway towns

loads of students - plenty of young bands - some of them exceptionally good - none of them playing boutique gear

Squier rules!!
[/quote]

I've always done my utmost to avoid students - even when I was one

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377215248' post='2185018']
Music Man came out with the Ray line and they matched the original in quality. Now there's a SUB series for even less and THEY are every bit as good. [/quote]

Some may disagree about the "they are every bit as good" and about the SBMM Ray line matching the original in quality.
But the truth is we seem to be able to get pretty good instruments even in the budget lines (not all, but many of them). The difference in quality between the top range and the budget range has been reduced dramatically in the past 20 years or so.

I have an OLP that I have gigged and if I could not afford a Stingray (or a USA made SUB, the original ones from 2003-2006), I would not really be lacking much. I modified the OLP to have a decent preamp and a good pickup, and have it set up beautifully. It's still a cheap bass... but it would work just fine.

[Lowender]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1377358954' post='2186705']
I've never understood how Fender get away with charging more for instruments made in America. Amongst country music players in the mid-west US there might be some patriotic appeal, but otherwise the only reason they'd be better is if Fender deliberately make the Mexican ones worse.
[/quote]

In a word , yes. The wood that isn't as good, goes to Mexico. Little parts that cost a few pennies less, go to Mexico. The workers are cheaper so the quality control isn't up to the same standards. They don;t use the reinforcement in the neck like they've don on the later MIA models. They cut big holes in the body so they can have machines install the wiring. There is certainly a difference between the MIM and the MIA. Then again, I think a Squier CV is superior to a MIM, but not a MIA.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Lowender

[tauzero]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1377344667' post='2186492']
In fact in the last week we've sold:

Older Fodera to a high end gigging pro and session player
Nearly new Fodera to another regular gigging player but not a pro
Vintage Wal to a school aged player who's taking his future as a musician very seriously
New F Bass to a touring pro
Used Brubaker to someone who mostly plays at home
New Wood & Tronics to a semi-pro
Ritter Cora to regular gigger but not pro

That's 6 basses in as many days with an average price of about £3K to people ranging from schoolboys to semi-retired and bedroom players to full on gigging pros. Doesnt feel like this signals the death knell of the high end business
[/quote]

I like your arithmetic. The next time you have a surplus bass, could you send it my way please?

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377387999' post='2187076']
The workers are cheaper so the quality control isn't up to the same standards.
[/quote]

Ouch!

[JTUK]

A rep was most keen to tell me that the Subs were pretty close in quality with regular EB's.... really..??
That is MM in trouble then..... IMO.

I recall MM of old and my MM was one of the best basses I've owned....
I have to say that I am not a big fan on EBMM that I have come across lately so ..
maybe I just don't get them these days... but I would not like to to think the Subs
are indicative of todays MM basses. That would be quite a blow..

[molan]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1377388659' post='2187084']


I like your arithmetic. The next time you have a surplus bass, could you send it my way please?
[/quote]

I think we've only ever given one bass away - it was a competition prize.

Unfortunately it appeared for sale on EBay very soon afterwards

We have sold a few basses at below cost to very young students though. It's not really our standard customer base but every now and then we get a low cost bass in PX and we've let a couple go cheaply to aspiring young players

[Lowender]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377467221' post='2187956']
A rep was most keen to tell me that the Subs were pretty close in quality with regular EB's.... really..??
That is MM in trouble then..... IMO.

I recall MM of old and my MM was one of the best basses I've owned....
I have to say that I am not a big fan on EBMM that I have come across lately so ..
maybe I just don't get them these days... but I would not like to to think the Subs
are indicative of todays MM basses. That would be quite a blow..
[/quote]

I have a MM and a SUB and I concur. it's ridiculous.

[karlfer]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377387999' post='2187076']
In a word , yes. The wood that isn't as good, goes to Mexico. Little parts that cost a few pennies less, go to Mexico. The workers are cheaper so the quality control isn't up to the same standards. They don;t use the reinforcement in the neck like they've don on the later MIA models. They cut big holes in the body so they can have machines install the wiring. There is certainly a difference between the MIM and the MIA. Then again, I think a Squier CV is superior to a MIM, but not a MIA.
[/quote]

Tried all the MIM's have you?
Over the last couple of years the Sea Foam FSR and Antigua FSR are basses I've regretted moving on. Splendidly made instruments. My Mex Geddy is also superb, albeit on it's way out.
Moving the Geddy and Miller to Mexican production, after 14 years of being made in Japan, makes it a hard act to follow. Judging by comments in other threads, it has been a success.
I also regret moving on a 2000 Mex Precision Deluxe (the passive one, model before the current active).
Had Martin build an SEI to my spec a decade ago, moved on long ago. Times change, opinions change, disposable income changes.
It still hacks me off though, how much slagging Mex basses get, until it gets to the Road Worn series

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377487717' post='2188061']
I have a MM and a SUB and I concur. it's ridiculous.
[/quote]

original USA SUBs (2003-2006)? or the newer line by Sterling By MusicMan?

[JTUK]

I'm talking about new Subs, ..the range realsed in the last year or so.. or that is when I had the conversation.

[gjones]

Of course the attention to detail of a top line, luthier, built bass will be second to none. So as an 'object of desire', like a work of art, I can see the attraction.

[stingrayPete1977]

The fit and finish on all my ebmm basses has been perfect, the classic I have now is flawless they are all just bits of wood, there is only so much difference between a good bass and the best basses.

[gjones]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377487717' post='2188061']
I have a MM and a SUB and I concur. it's ridiculous.
[/quote]
[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1377505790' post='2188128']

original USA SUBs (2003-2006)? or the newer line by Sterling By MusicMan?
[/quote]

I've owned a couple of original USA SUBS and they were as good as any Stingray. But the new cheaper SUBS, which were manufactured recently and sold for about £300, don't nail the Stingray sound in my opinion (although they may well be nice basses in their own right).

[mcnach]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1377514670' post='2188283']
I've owned a couple of original USA SUBS and they were as good as any Stingray. But the new cheaper SUBS, which were manufactured recently and sold for about £300, don't nail the Stingray sound in my opinion (although they may well be nice basses in their own right).
[/quote]


That's why I asked, as what you say fits what I heard from people whom I trust. I have not personally tried the new SUBs so I don't know for certain. I heard also that teh new SUBs compared to the OLPs... and those were not really Stingray quality or sound, but could be modified relatively simply and were pretty good instruments (some were, some were dogs)... The new SUBs look very tasty, and if they're anything close to what the OLPs were, they would be great value... regardless whether they nail the Stingray sound in stock form or not.

I love the old SUBs, I have a couple of them!

[neepheid]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1377495492' post='2188064']
It still hacks me off though, how much slagging Mex basses get, until it gets to the Road Worn series
[/quote]

All slagging based upon country of origin I find highly irritating, and if I'm perfectly honest, a teeny bit racist - not so much here but particularly when it comes up in conversation on Talkbass.

Particularly irritating because I have seen amazing, flawless instruments from "the East" and absolute howling dreadful instruments from "the West". For the record, my MIM Cabronita P bass is lovely. No instrument has a divine right to be perfect simply because of where/when it was made. Neither is any instrument automatically an abomination on that same basis. But the way some people talk, that's the impression I get.

[stingrayPete1977]

I agree with that but all the Mexican basses I have tried were dogs yet the guitars brilliant, so on a personal level 100% of Mexican basses are rubbish

[neepheid]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1377520964' post='2188393']
I agree with that but all the Mexican basses I have tried were dogs yet the guitars brilliant, so on a personal level 100% of Mexican basses are rubbish
[/quote]

I've no problem with that opinion, you are more than welcome to have it. But when such an opinion gets paraded around as universal fact, that's when I get irritated.

[Lowender]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377514058' post='2188268']
I'm talking about new Subs, ..the range realsed in the last year or so.. or that is when I had the conversation.
[/quote]

Brand New. They essentially built a factory in Indonesia with the same specs and the parts as the California plant. Result -- same bass, with workers who get 1/16 of the pay. That may not be good for the American economy but it makes for a great deal on a bass.

[Lowender]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1377520964' post='2188393']
I agree with that but all the Mexican basses I have tried were dogs yet the guitars brilliant, so on a personal level 100% of Mexican basses are rubbish
[/quote]

I agree with that as well. I can't remember playing a good Mexi. I'd put them on par with the VM Squiers. The CV Squiers blow the Mexis away.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377526835' post='2188460']
Brand New. They essentially built a factory in Indonesia with the same specs and the parts as the California plant. Result -- same bass, with workers who get 1/16 of the pay. That may not be good for the American economy but it makes for a great deal on a bass.
[/quote]


Not really.
Pickups and preamp are different, for starters. They are two separate companies that share nothing physically. Woods are also different qualities/source... but I don't care so much for wood: as long as it's solid and looks alright, that's fine by me (heresy for some, I know )

Go on talkbass, there's a thread on these basses and one of the top guys at SBMM is often there answering questions. He even posted a modification for the preamp on their basses, which many felt was too hot. Cool guy. His latest question was "right, it's time for new colours, what do you want?" I said shell pink. If they make a SUB (maple fingerboard!) in shell pink, I would have to buy one. They already make them in surf green and they are sooooo tempting

[stingrayPete1977]

Even the SBMM range has a different body shape to the EBMM one, not miles off I know but they are far less contoured on the belly cut and the arm chamfeur, the rounded edges are the bit machines struggle with and are the finished by hand bit more often on more expensive basses, anyone with a custom bass will know what I mean there.

[karlfer]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377526925' post='2188464']
I agree with that as well. I can't remember playing a good Mexi. I'd put them on par with the VM Squiers. The CV Squiers blow the Mexis away.
[/quote]

Sorry pal, your generalisation is bollocks.

[discreet]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1377543679' post='2188700']
Sorry pal, your generalisation is bollocks.
[/quote]

I'd tend to agree, having just bought a MIM Jazz... my previous ownership experience has been with Vintage MIA and Custom P basses. Fair enough, I had to shim the neck to get the action where I wanted it, and I've fitted a set of DR Fat Beams, but it doesn't seem inferior compared to anything else - in my view. It bounces along very nicely and is easy to play. In fact it sounds very much like a Fender Jazz Bass. Which is about right, isn't it..? Or have I just been lucky, d'you think?

Edited August 26, 2013 by discreet