How do you know if a bassist is 'good' or not?

[RandomBass]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1360936166' post='1978606']
Timing is also a factor. A bass player who cannot keep time is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.
[/quote]

Actually I think my Goldwing probably had an ashtray on it somewhere, hence why I play bass lol

[cloudburst]

One of the helicopters I regularly used to fly - a Bell JetRanger - had an ashtray in it. It always felt a bit surreal. Here it is. Ashtray is just below the transponder (just underneath the collective as you look at the photo).

CB

[lojo]

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1361020945' post='1979864']
One of the helicopters I regularly used to fly - a Bell JetRanger - had an ashtray in it. It always felt a bit surreal. Here it is. Ashtray is just below the transponder (just underneath the collective as you look at the photo).

CB



[/quote]

That's cool

If you'd have been trying to explain what the transponder and collective was, would you have said they are just above the ashtray

[Guest bassman7755]

For a me great bass players fall into two camps: the session guy/side-man who goes beyond just "playing the song" but rather lifts it to a new level but in a non-intrusive way, and the individualist who's strong personal style defines the sound of the band to some degree.

Exercise for the reader - listen to "run to you" and imagine what it would sound like if someone had just plodded out root notes.

[icastle]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1361012586' post='1979697']
Jaco?
[/quote]

Nope, Ian.

[cloudburst]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1361021931' post='1979892']
That's cool

If you'd have been trying to explain what the transponder and collective was, would you have said they are just above the ashtray
[/quote]

Ha ha - you're making this much too complicated; the collective's just to the left of the buttock retention unit :-)

CB

Edited February 16, 2013 by cloudburst

[D.I. Joe]

To me a good bassline is one which locks into the groove and provides a platform for the other parts in a piece of music. Playing with good feel for rhythm, dynamics and harmony - not just playing appropriate notes but playing notes appropriately (accents, staccato/legato, hammer-ons etc.) i.e. Playing for the benefit of the whole piece and not just showing off.

Good bass players are the ones who play good basslines consistantly.

Million-notes-a-minute, crazy slapping, tapping etc are all impressive skills and take years to master - but in my opinion these skills alone do not a make a good bass player.

[12stringbassist]

Good bass players add to songs by playing what the song needs and not imposing their
own style at its expense, don't stick out like sore thumbs and play in the right register on
the bass as the song requires.

They turn up on time and are reliable and consistent and don't have ego or alcohol problems.

They are the ones who get the work that's out there.

Edited February 16, 2013 by 12stringbassist

[seashell]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1361022119' post='1979898']
For a me great bass players fall into two camps: the session guy/side-man who goes beyond just "playing the song" but rather lifts it to a new level but in a non-intrusive way, and the individualist who's strong personal style defines the sound of the band to some degree.

Exercise for the reader - listen to "run to you" and imagine what it would sound like if someone had just plodded out root notes.
[/quote]

Good post.
I know what you mean about Run to You. I had to learnit for a bit of a concert just before Xmas. Had never really listened to it before, and now I love it!!

[arthurhenry]

Does the song sound good? If so, then the bass player is good in that moment, on that song. What else does anyone care about? Does the bass player sound good when he/she's not playing songs?!!

[Happy Jack]

Is that zen?

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1361024152' post='1979926']
Nope, Ian.
[/quote]

[Chaos Daveo]

Does you head nod or toe tap,if so its all good.

[Lord Sausage]

It's quite simple really, it's whether they are wearing a cool hat or not!

[tauzero]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1360934436' post='1978555']
But he [i]didn't[/i] do it. He played half of it and they bodged the second half in the studio.

IMO, the rest of his playing on Graceland was easily enough to give him immortality.
[/quote]

When he played it live, he did the whole part including the bit that had been reversed in the studio. And it was so popular that he did it twice.

But anyway, the answer to the question is to ask if the bassist in question is good on Basschat, take two buckets, and collect the froth from the mouths of the pro lobby in one and the anti lobby in the other. The heavier bucket wins. Don't expect anything more moderate than fervent rantings, such expectations will only lead to disappointment. And beware the Basschat Thought Police, they're everywhere.

[lowdowner]

You see... I 'get' all this comment about good bassists 'supporting the music' and 'not imposing their own style at the expense of the music' that's obvious, but it kinda suggests that bassists should be supporting the music and not making or defining it. Listening to Victor Wooten the other day on a long flight I was completely blown away by how his bass lines *were* the music - there was *no* music to be overpowered by his style... only the music he was making. Wooten seems to be the epitome of the bass *being* the music, and pretty much *all* the music.

Brave new bass seems to be about being what the music is about, not just being supportive in some way. Wooten's tracks are fantastic tour de forces of bass-centric music where all other instruments seem to support the bass.

A different view perhaps?

[Lowender]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360947353' post='1978884']
I haven't heard many non-"celeb" bassists that did anything noteworthy (present company excepted of course Nige). I suppose if they did they would be heading towards being a celeb.
[/quote]


I don't think the world is waiting for bassists to play bass basslines and turn them into celerbrities.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1361171057' post='1982067']
I don't think the world is waiting for bassists to play bass basslines and turn them into celerbrities.
[/quote]

Exactly, they get known among folk that start to follow the band they're in, get seen to do a solid job - and assuming the band stays the course get known to do a good job as bassist. It's when they become innovative (or are seen to be publicly - as in the Mark King thread for eg.) or they do something newsworthy that they become a "celeb" in many, though not all cases.
I'm thinking along the lines of Bill Wyman, good regular bassist, not known for being unorthodox, believed himself to be taken for granted, gained notoriety for wooing an underage girl & then marrying her.
Jack Bruce, gained a rep in jazz circles for being a good player, peaked at forming a supergroup, but was known to be hot-headed in that group.
But in general, among the public, non musician circles it's rare for a bassist to reach the dizzy heights of say Clapton, so far as I've noticed.

[xilddx]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1361131545' post='1981628']
You see... I 'get' all this comment about good bassists 'supporting the music' and 'not imposing their own style at the expense of the music' that's obvious, but it kinda suggests that bassists should be supporting the music and not making or defining it. Listening to Victor Wooten the other day on a long flight I was completely blown away by how his bass lines *were* the music - there was *no* music to be overpowered by his style... only the music he was making. Wooten seems to be the epitome of the bass *being* the music, and pretty much *all* the music.

Brave new bass seems to be about being what the music is about, not just being supportive in some way. Wooten's tracks are fantastic tour de forces of bass-centric music where all other instruments seem to support the bass.

A different view perhaps?
[/quote]

Yes but bass centric music almost always seems to be a way of showcasing technique over the intergrity of the music. Bass is mostly a supporting instrument, rarely does it shine as a leading instrument. If I want to hear more bass-led music, I'll listen to reggae or dub, because the bass is really up front but also doing what it does best, making the music glow.

[achknalligewelt]

It's a nice question, and I asked a similar question a while back. I, for my trouble, got heavily shot down for it, though this may have been because I advocated Alex James as a bassist rather than one of the accpeted canon of bass masters.

Thing is, I agree with the thesis of the question - slapping out hemisemidemiquavers at 200 bpm is a great talent, but outside of a very particular genre of music, it is also utterly useless. A great bassist is one who can always do what the music requires, and then add a layer of personal interpretation on the top. Knowing what the song needs and how they can fit themselves into that hole is one of the fundamentals for a bass player. To be a great, they then have to be able to mould that hole around themselves and make the line they want to play work.

To take Alex James as an example, the bassline to Tracy Jacks is utterly unlike any other in 90's music. God knows, frankly, where he got it from. But get it he did, and it is the heart of the song. Any other bassist could have created a line themselves given the same blank canvas of a song, but the alchemy of that line in that song is impossible to match, I think. I mention Alex James as he was a great influence on my approach to bass when I started, but you could add, to take an almost random example, Tony Williams on Stuck In The Middle With You, or Pete Quaife on You Really Got me. Some is note-y, some isn't, but the way these lines bring life to the songs is the sign of a great, for my mind.

[xilddx]

[quote name='achknalligewelt' timestamp='1361194138' post='1982470']
It's a nice question, and I asked a similar question a while back. I, for my trouble, got heavily shot down for it, though this may have been because I advocated Alex James as a bassist rather than one of the accpeted canon of bass masters.

Thing is, I agree with the thesis of the question - slapping out hemisemidemiquavers at 200 bpm is a great talent, but outside of a very particular genre of music, it is also utterly useless. A great bassist is one who can always do what the music requires, and then add a layer of personal interpretation on the top. Knowing what the song needs and how they can fit themselves into that hole is one of the fundamentals for a bass player. To be a great, they then have to be able to mould that hole around themselves and make the line they want to play work.

To take Alex James as an example, the bassline to Tracy Jacks is utterly unlike any other in 90's music. God knows, frankly, where he got it from. But get it he did, and it is the heart of the song. Any other bassist could have created a line themselves given the same blank canvas of a song, but the alchemy of that line in that song is impossible to match, I think. I mention Alex James as he was a great influence on my approach to bass when I started, but you could add, to take an almost random example, Tony Williams on Stuck In The Middle With You, or Pete Quaife on You Really Got me. Some is note-y, some isn't, but the way these lines bring life to the songs is the sign of a great, for my mind.
[/quote]

You sound like my kinda guy

Not being a big Blur fan (although my lady has Parklife), I just had a listen to Tracy Jacks, bloody hell, that's a great bass line and works the song so well. I even like his tone. He's really got that lovely smooth nuanced playing that I am such a fan of. Jared Followill from Kings of Leon is another of this type of player.

[achknalligewelt]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1361198744' post='1982588']
You sound like my kinda guy

Not being a big Blur fan (although my lady has Parklife), I just had a listen to Tracy Jacks, bloody hell, that's a great bass line and works the song so well. I even like his tone. He's really got that lovely smooth nuanced playing that I am such a fan of. Jared Followill from Kings of Leon is another of this type of player.
[/quote]

Cheers. I find him to be melodic, rhythmic and just endlessly listenable as both an indidivual player and as part of the overall Blur sound. The same goes for Mat Osman (Suede), Mickey Quinn (Supergrass), Colin Greenwood (Radiohead) and Bobby Kildea (Belle and Sebastian). Some of the bassists on the indie scene are superb, but seem to go utterly under the radar on BC. I got called a troll for saying that I didn't like John Entwistle, which seemed a tad harsh.

I say again, Guitar pop is the home to a stack of great bass playing, quite possibly because it lacks the big beasts of the bass firmament, and relies instead on the skills of the ensemble player and the all round musician - it's always a surprise how much else a pop band bassist does on a record besides hold down the low end. Mike Mills is part bassist, part polymath in my opinion.

[xilddx]

[quote name='achknalligewelt' timestamp='1361205793' post='1982751']
Cheers. I find him to be melodic, rhythmic and just endlessly listenable as both an indidivual player and as part of the overall Blur sound. The same goes for Mat Osman (Suede), Mickey Quinn (Supergrass), Colin Greenwood (Radiohead) and Bobby Kildea (Belle and Sebastian). Some of the bassists on the indie scene are superb, but seem to go utterly under the radar on BC. I got called a troll for saying that I didn't like John Entwistle, which seemed a tad harsh.

I say again, Guitar pop is the home to a stack of great bass playing, quite possibly because it lacks the big beasts of the bass firmament, and relies instead on the skills of the ensemble player and the all round musician - it's always a surprise how much else a pop band bassist does on a record besides hold down the low end. Mike Mills is part bassist, part polymath in my opinion.
[/quote]

I completely agree, but it's understandable given the quite large focus on technique, and being a bassist for all seasons, which seems to be what a lot of bassists are expected to be and certainly seems to pervade Basschat. In the guitar world, one is generally encouraged to develop style and personality along with the technical skills.

Thing is, and this is a generalisation, I think a lot of inexperienced bassists don't really understand the subtleties of the instrument, it's either plod or Wooten it seems, all those lovely expressive techniques that guitarists use are barely considered. I think this is because really good bassists are often not paid much attention, so many bassists won't have really HEARD Jared Followill, Alex James, Mike Mills et al. Solid musical players with great nuance and who do little things for the emotion of the song that can make you shiver if you actually listen to what they are doing, because they are really feeling it.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='achknalligewelt' timestamp='1361194138' post='1982470']
I agree with the thesis of the question - slapping out hemisemidemiquavers at 200 bpm is a great talent, but outside of a very particular genre of music, it is also utterly useless. [/quote]

Not only that, but it would require a lot of someone's practise time to maintain those sort of 'chops'. For most players that is going to be a massive waste of time.

[quote name='achknalligewelt' timestamp='1361194138' post='1982470']A great bassist is one who can always do what the music requires, and then add a layer of personal interpretation on the top. Knowing what the song needs and how they can fit themselves into that hole is one of the fundamentals for a bass player. To be a great, they then have to be able to mould that hole around themselves and make the line they want to play work.[/quote]

I'd agree with most of that, but with 'bass player' replaced with 'musician'. It's not specifically a bass player skill. I think particularly for bass players it's important to bring some variety and colour or you're just going to be another mouth that needs feeding. You need to contribute as much as anyone else, preferably more.

I also rate Alex James BTW. And I think Entwistle's bass often sounded awful, and he often sounded bored.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1361208040' post='1982809']And I think Entwistle's bass often sounded awful, and he often sounded bored.[/quote]

Saw a docu with him once where he complained endlessly about modern sound having no bass; the prog was a kind of oddysey that he was on to perfect his bass tone. You couldn't help but admire his love & obsession with what he did, but his end product didn't seem to show any signs of it.
Right or wrong I put it down to his loss of hearing. With all of his massive backline he said the reason Townsend almost always faced him on stage was because if he (JAE) couldn't see Towensends hands on his fingerboard he was lost & had to wing it until he could again.