this puts me off of fenders just a tad..

[risingson]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1358708670' post='1943803']
Biased nonsense.
[/quote]

Was rather thinking the same thing!

[White Cloud]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1358708670' post='1943803']
Biased nonsense.
[/quote]
Funny thing is....I was thinking the exact same about every post you have made on this topic too!

[jaydentaku]

Its certainly confusing to be accused of bias, when you made such an objective statement.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1358707824' post='1943772']
Well here endeth the debate.

Fender die hards (as usual) will not hear a word said against the company - and are willing to accept poor QC and flawed / loose joints. I am sure that Fender really appreciate your continued support. Your loyalty and willingness to accept a low standard of finish works to their advantage. It is nice for them to know that any bass with the F word on the headstock is above reproach!

The objective amongst us however feel Fender could step their game up and match companies like Lakland who consistently build Fender style basses to a higher standard of fit and finish for less cash.

You make your choice and pay your hard earned as you see fit.
[/quote]
What a load of nonsense. If you don't like Fenders don't buy them and say what you like about them. But there's really no need for the attack on people who do like Fenders.

By the way, I have a Fender and a Lakland and both have equally excellent QC whatever you think.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1358709682' post='1943839']
Its certainly confusing to be accused of bias, when you made such an objective statement.
[/quote]
There was very little objective about it and objectivity is no guarantee of a lack of bias anyway.

[Cat Burrito]

I love Fender and they have pretty much been my brand of choice for 25yrs now. I've tried to move away and try / buy other basses but a Fender just feels right to me so I keep coming back to them. I do have issues with the company and definitely don't see them through rose tinted specs BUT they obviously do so much right when it comes to bass guitars as they have been so popular for 60 years. There are always going to be Fender haters on these forums but then to me rock 'n' roll music should always be about dividing opinion so they have that right too

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1358709682' post='1943839']
Its certainly confusing to be accused of bias, when you made such an objective statement.
[/quote]

Did you mean to say "objective"?

[jaydentaku]

[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#333333"]what exactly is nonsense about his statement though? [/color][/size][/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#333333"]He criticises die hard fans for blindly accepting poor build quality. Surely that is a fair estimation of a die hard fan of any product?[/color][/size][/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#333333"]Brushing his opinion off as nonsense is only bolstering his argument. [/color][/size][/font]

[discreet]

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1358710423' post='1943861']
There are always going to be Fender haters on these forums but then to me rock 'n' roll music should always be about dividing opinion...[size=4][/quote][/size]
[size=4]Yes. But some Fender haters just won't let it lie for some reason! If you don't like Fenders, don't buy one, it's very simple.[/size]
[size=4]And those of us who like Fenders aren't going to be swayed by forum opinions, so stop being control freaks![/size]

Edited January 20, 2013 by discreet

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1358710716' post='1943868']
[/size]
[size=4]Yes. But some Fender haters just won't let it lie for some reason! If you don't like Fenders, don't buy one, it's very simple.[/size]
[size=4]And those of us who like Fenders aren't going to be swayed by forum opinions, so stop being control freaks![/size]
[/quote]

Yep. Us Fender lovers don't slag off other bass manufacturers and their fans. In fact, we're not particularly interested. If you don't like them, don't buy them.

Edited January 20, 2013 by The Dark Lord

[wateroftyne]

This is why I try not to get involved in these debates.

The majority of the world's iconic basslines were played on Fenders. Some of them probably had BBoT bridges, three-bolt neck joints and gappy neck pockets.

They're not anything like as problematic as some people think. If it bothers you, walk away.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1358710716' post='1943868']
Yes. But some Fender haters just won't let it lie for some reason! If you don't like Fenders, don't buy one, it's very simple.
And those of us who like Fenders aren't going to be swayed by forum opinions, so stop being control freaks!
[/quote]
Whilst I don't disagree with any of that, that is [b]their[/b] problem and not mine. It does occasionally get a bit tiresome sometimes reading the same identical comments across a number of threads (I play [b]70s[/b] Fenders so people get that 2nd bite of the cherry too!) and whereas I don't care for Warwick or headless basses I just don't comment on threads about them. I often find people who make a point of being vocal about something they don't like occasionally wind up coming out in support of it a few years later.

[Mylkinut]

Normally I keep quiet on these debates, but crumbs... some do get terribly wound up by other people's choice of instrument.

I've owned Musicman basses, Rickenbackers, Ibanez basses, Warwicks and everything inbetween. I've played/been loaned G&Ls, Spectors, Sandbergs and a few boutiques. I still own a Peavey and a Yamaha because I like them.

Any of those bother you? Or is it just the big F? I personally think my three are every bit as good as anything else I've played. Surprisingly, that's why I've kept them.

I can understand why Fender gets knocked at every opportunity, and I'm not defending them here. They make what some consider to be sub-par, out-dated instruments, and yet continue to be the market leader despite the fact other companies may be more deserving.

But honestly, why should that concern you? You've got plenty of choice to buy something else, so do and leave it at that. I've got plenty of respect for someone who sits in quiet satisfaction that they've made the right choice, but I've no time for someone who looks down on others for making a choice they didn't. I'm sure most would agree.

In short: please stop worrying about what other people are doing and play your bass, whether it has Fender on the headstock or not.

[White Cloud]

I think there is a bit of clarity required from my stand point here.

Firstly, hate is a very strong word - and having owned multiple Fenders over the last 30 yrs or so (some very good vintages) I would never say that I hate them. Therefore I am not a Fender "hater". I do however have an opinion on the QC issues that do appear to be pretty frequent on many of the models that I have played over the last 4-5 yrs. I commented objectively from my personal experiences and do not consider myself to be acting from any perceived bias against Fender. It is what it is from my perspective. The original poster invited reaction to the subject of Fender QC after observing the said picture - so its fair to say I feel entitled to put forward my tuppenceworth.

Secondly, the last time I checked this was a forum for bass players to express their opnions and experiences...which is what I have done on this thread. If labelling me a "hater" and decrying my opinion and personal experience and objectivity makes you feel better then that is perfectly okay with me. Your opinion is every bit as valid as mine. We dont (and wont) have to agree on this subject.

Thats what makes the world go around folks! You keep buying your Fenders and so will I.......after very carefully selecting a good one.

Edited January 20, 2013 by White Cloud

[peteb]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1358711354' post='1943897']
The majority of the world's iconic basslines were played on Fenders. Some of them probably had BBoT bridges, three-bolt neck joints and gappy neck pockets.
[/quote]
[color=#222222]Surely that’s the point - Fender make [b]the [/b]most iconic bass guitars, both in terms of sound and looks! Most bass guitar sounds are described in terms of either Precision or Jazz basses and there is something about them (looks, etc) that is just very cool![/color]
[color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#222222]However, most devotees see their faults and outdated design features as being positive qualities (a bit like Harley riders in the motorcycle world). I would suggest that many builders do Fender better than the original (Lakland et al) and I can’t see why Fender can’t improve their QC and build quality to match their competitors. After all, Musicman seem to manage it ok…![/color]
[color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#222222]Of course, none of this matters at all and people will obviously just play whatever they want to and the attraction of the Fender brand is a strong one. But this is a forum for discussing bass guitars and it is inevitable that people will talk about the pros and cons of the most iconic brand of bass guitar of all i.e. Fender…..[/color]

[Mylkinut]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1358721540' post='1944177']
Thats what makes the world go around folks! You keep buying your Fenders and so will I.......after very carefully selecting a good one.
[/quote]

As I think anyone would do - I don't think anyone would knowingly buy a bad bass just because it said 'Fender' on it (at least I really, really hope not). There certainly are dogs out there, but if you find something you like... whatever tickles your pickle

[Hutton]

I know that it is all down to personal opinion but I just wonder if enough people say enough times that Fenders have quality control issues then it will become a generally accepted fact. For myself, I think that the current range of Fender guitars and basses display excellent quality control. Mind you, I didn't have much problem with the previous offerings either (apart from late 70s) but the current product is first class considering how many are made each day. This, I emphasise, is only my humble opinion.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1358710716' post='1943868']
[/size]
[size=4]Yes. But some Fender haters just won't let it lie for some reason! If you don't like Fenders, don't buy one, it's very simple.[/size]
[size=4]And those of us who like Fenders aren't going to be swayed by forum opinions, so stop being control freaks![/size]
[/quote]

Who made your bass again Discreet? I know what it says on the headstock but....

[discreet]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1358760583' post='1944417']
Who made your bass again Discreet? I know what it says on the headstock but.... [size=4][/quote][/size]
[size=4]The Bass Doc! I wouldn't want a [/size][i]real [/i][size=4]Fender, would I? Everyone knows they're crap! [/size][size=4] [/size]

Edited January 21, 2013 by discreet

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='Mylkinut' timestamp='1358758733' post='1944402']
As I think anyone would do - I don't think anyone would knowingly buy a bad bass just because it said 'Fender' on it (at least I really, really hope not). There certainly are dogs out there, but if you find something you like... whatever tickles your pickle
[/quote]

The problem is that not everybody surfs the web and the forums and most of them isn't aware of the QC issues. In fact i would say most people buying is first "proper" bass after saving a lot of hard earned money will enter a music store and buy whatever is on the wall regardless of its condition/issues/setup/etc. just because they still don't know how to check this. So i'm affraid to tell you that a big lot of bass players do buy a planck of wood going only by what it's written on the headstock.



I had Fenders and won't have problems in having another but i'll be aware for the QC issues when trying one. It's just a shame that many people spend a lot of money for a bass that's not properly assembled!

Call me "hater" if you want but i will keep advising anyone looking for a Fender to be very carefull with any defects and to inspect it well before spending the money.

There's another important thing to take in to consideration, these days people buy a lot of gear through the internet, with that kind of QC Fender isn't the best option to go when ordering internationally (Thomann, Musicstore, etc.).

Cheers


edit: some spelling

Edited January 21, 2013 by Ghost_Bass

[kerley]

That advice is not specific to Fender, it is not as though all other manufacturers basses are perfect is it? Fenders QC may be worse than others but who actually has any data on it as to me it just looks like anecdotal stuff is all we have (which is next to useless)

And what is with all this 'haters' stuff, is everybody 12 years old?

[One Drop]

I just find that a lot of the criticism of the QC and the fit and finish of new Fenders is unwarranted, based on all the ones I regularly try out in shops. I know Fenders intimately and can usually tell if one is not sounding or playing great due to setup issues.

It doesn't make me an apologist or a die-hard anything, just someone with a judgement based on my own experiences. I've played plenty of Laklands, and a few Skylines have been real nice, but nothing radically better than off the shelf USA Fenders. They don't even make strict copies anymore, with their new PUPs, so they are out of the running if you are looking for a vintage Fender sounding instrument.

Objectively the American Standards are consistently lighter than the Lakland Skylines these days, and I don't see where the Laklands are superior in any consistent way when it comes to production tolerances, woods used, quality of hardware, fretwork, etc.

I've never tried a USA Lakland but they are in an entirely different price bracket and should not be compared directly.

Look at this thread- it was started about a photo on their website, not even someone's experience with a real bass.

Edited January 21, 2013 by One Drop

[uncle psychosis]

Last time I went "serious" bass shopping I tried a whole load of Ibanez basses, some Laklands, and some Fenders (I bought a Yamaha, but thats another story).

The Ibanez basses (three or four of them) had horrid setups and the Laklands were no better than the Fenders at the same price point.

I'm sure that there are Fenders out there that have issues---they are mass produced instruments, after all---but I honestly think that some people are imagining QC faults that, well, aren't, and are just parroting things they've read on the internet. I'm not sure that a neck pocket gap is necessarily a bad thing. It [b]may[/b] be, but you should judge a bass by picking it up and playing it, not looking at it and thinking "oh, neck pocket gap, must be crap". I'm sure if you asked people to play these basses blind they wouldn't be aware of many of the supposed "flaws".

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1358779157' post='1944813']
Last time I went "serious" bass shopping I tried a whole load of Ibanez basses, some Laklands, and some Fenders (I bought a Yamaha, but thats another story).

The Ibanez basses (three or four of them) had horrid setups and the Laklands were no better than the Fenders at the same price point.

I'm sure that there are Fenders out there that have issues---they are mass produced instruments, after all---but I honestly think that some people are imagining QC faults that, well, aren't, and are just parroting things they've read on the internet. I'm not sure that a neck pocket gap is necessarily a bad thing. It [b]may[/b] be, but you should judge a bass by picking it up and playing it, not looking at it and thinking "oh, neck pocket gap, must be crap". I'm sure if you asked people to play these basses blind they wouldn't be aware of many of the supposed "flaws".
[/quote]

Very true. I've tried several basses in stores and not counting setups there was only one Fender that i couldn't flaw in terms of finish/cracking pots/neck pocket/... , it was a Japanese Geddy Lee, wonderfull bass, if i ever see myself in the need of having a J for live playing it will definetly be one of those. Most stores unfortunatly have bad setup instruments on display and most don't even bother in offering a setup when selling, this particular store i'm talking about only had two basses in a playable condition (yamaha RBX 375 and Squier Deluxe), it also had the most unplayable Stingray i ever encountered (but appart from the setup everything else was spon on with it).

I would never buy a bass with bad assembly/fit/finish, if i'm paying a considerable amount of money i expect the bass to be well buildt. A neck pocket gap is a big flaw and there's no mass production story that justifies such thing. I recently bought a Sandberg for less money than a Fender would have cost and it has no issues so it is to be expected that the most expensive bass would be at least as well put together...

[Hutton]

The debate is just really going round and round now. We've all made our point. Agreement is never going to happen but it's good to banter back and forth!