Smallest giggable bass combo/cab?

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1348703661' post='1817273']
I play in a noisy pub-rock band with two guitarists, a drummer who thinks he's John Bonham and a singer who doesn't do quiet or subtle. My rig is a GK MB500 (weighs less than 2 Kgs) and a Barefaced Compact (14 Kgs). I don't think you'll get much lighter than that! Absolutely no problems making myself heard with bags of spare volume on tap.
[/quote] Tecamp rig would be lighter... cost more though. The barefaced stuff is supposed to be good mind
[quote name='charic' timestamp='1348747470' post='1817645']
One of the TC amps and use the DI? No cab needed and sounds epic
[/quote] what and just go through the PA? their are cheaper ways to do that than a TC amp (plug plug plug for the Bass Pod I'm selling )
[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1348773295' post='1818089']
50lbs is reasonably light for a 2x12 you can gig with. I wouldn't bother going smaller. Get a cart to help with the cab. £20 from Amazon.
[/quote] 50lb isn't light by my books! my cab is a 2x10 but under 40lb... a tecamp 1x10 is under 20lb. you can do lightweight- the downside is the cost- the upside is by the time you get to that kinda price point you tend to get a well engineered cab too.

[nottswarwick]

I would look at the Markbass mini cmd 121p. I have for my second and it will do tou

[charic]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1349119472' post='1822130']
Tecamp rig would be lighter... cost more though. The barefaced stuff is supposed to be good mind
what and just go through the PA? their are cheaper ways to do that than a TC amp (plug plug plug for the Bass Pod I'm selling )
50lb isn't light by my books! my cab is a 2x10 but under 40lb... a tecamp 1x10 is under 20lb. you can do lightweight- the downside is the cost- the upside is by the time you get to that kinda price point you tend to get a well engineered cab too.
[/quote]

Fair point on the pod

[Evil Undead]

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1349120285' post='1822142']
I would look at the Markbass mini cmd 121p. I have for my second and it will do tou
[/quote]

I really want one of those. Like, really! But I don't want to shell out for one if it might not keep up with my band.

[Conan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1348773295' post='1818089']
Get a cart to help with the cab. £20 from Amazon.
[/quote]

That's not going to help her get it down the stairs though...

[Phil Starr]

There's a few practical questions to be answered here before you should pick an amp.

Is it weight, ease of carrying or bulk which is the problem or a combination of all three? Without a car an amp you can put in your gig bag and a small speaker which is a one handed carry makes sense as it is easy to beg a lift from a band mate if your stuff is small. If it is absolute weight then the AER might be out, it is tiny but fairly dense.

Can you go through the PA? This is critical, if you can then your 'amp' becomes just an onstage monitor and you can dramatically scale down.

How long term are you thinking? is this a temporary solution to fit your current band or something that you expect to play for years with possibly different bands and at a wide variety of venues?

I'll give you a for instance, I've got a 600W Ashdown with a collection of 12's,15's and 2x10's. I use a Hartke kickback10 for rehearsal. About three months ago we were playing in a tiny pub so I took the Hartke and went through the PA. The sound was better for the audience, the sound for the band on stage was better by a much bigger margin. Because the Hartke was only really doing the mids and highs with the thunder coming from the PA I could hear my own articulation much more than usual and played better. I haven't moved my cabs since and i'll only keep them against the days we do outside gigs. The freedom to walk to the car with guitar in one hand and amp in the other is just total liberation.

If you can't use the PA then the classD/2x112 solution looks good, you might get away with one speaker only at smaller venues especially if you go for something reasonably loud. Two 12's will solve a lot of the weight problem but not the bulk one.

It is probably out of your budget but the AER amp one is the ultimate solution. They are tiny and the sound is genuinely immense in any normal venue, There's some very clever, well worked design going on there.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Phil Starr

[ash]

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1349159985' post='1822434']


I really want one of those. Like, really! But I don't want to shell out for one if it might not keep up with my band.
[/quote]

I use one of these on its own for most gigs and coupled with a New York 112 for gigs with a rock band I play for - it sounds great with double bass, 5 string and my Fender - combined with the extra cab it blows away a Marshall valve rig and the combo on its own can compete with a loud rock drummer. I've not looked at another rig since I bought this amp 4 years ago and it's a one hand easy lift!

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1348693910' post='1817128']I have a Promethean head, 250W into 8 ohms or 500W into 4 ohms. Thinking about replacing that with something I can [b]fit in the pocket of my gig bag[/b] but not sure yet.[/quote]

Change your gigbag? I got [url="http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/gigbags_detail.asp?stock=06072516185818"]one of these[/url] from one of my local music shops for under £30 & the Promethean head fits snugly in one of the pockets (unlike my Superfly).

As to cabs... Epifani? I've got a 250W [url="http://www.epifani.com/products/UL2_110.php"]UL-110[/url] that's an awesome bit of kit. Very light, compact & quite capable of handling a moderate pub gig on its own - if I had the cash I'd buy another in an instant and have a Micro-rig-of-Doom

Whatever you end up looking at, check the geometry. It's all very well having a super-lightweight devastatingly-loud cab, but if the physical shape (and the handle position) are awkward they can end up exacerbating any problems. It's my only gripe about the Promethean combo tbh; whichever way I carry it the damn thing bounces off my leg with every step, & if I shift my arm outwards to stop that it sets my shoulder off.

A trolley is a useful thing, but, as already stated, they don't do stairs & can be a struggle on the 'bus.

Pete.

[Evil Undead]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1349164729' post='1822474']
There's a few practical questions to be answered here before you should pick an amp.

Is it weight, ease of carrying or bulk which is the problem or a combination of all three? Without a car an amp you can put in your gig bag and a small speaker which is a one handed carry makes sense as it is easy to beg a lift from a band mate if your stuff is small. If it is absolute weight then the AER might be out, it is tiny but fairly dense.

Can you go through the PA? This is critical, if you can then your 'amp' becomes just an onstage monitor and you can dramatically scale down.

How long term are you thinking? is this a temporary solution to fit your current band or something that you expect to play for years with possibly different bands and at a wide variety of venues?

I'll give you a for instance, I've got a 600W Ashdown with a collection of 12's,15's and 2x10's. I use a Hartke kickback10 for rehearsal. About three months ago we were playing in a tiny pub so I took the Hartke and went through the PA. The sound was better for the audience, the sound for the band on stage was better by a much bigger margin. Because the Hartke was only really doing the mids and highs with the thunder coming from the PA I could hear my own articulation much more than usual and played better. I haven't moved my cabs since and i'll only keep them against the days we do outside gigs. The freedom to walk to the car with guitar in one hand and amp in the other is just total liberation.

If you can't use the PA then the classD/2x112 solution looks good, you might get away with one speaker only at smaller venues especially if you go for something reasonably loud. Two 12's will solve a lot of the weight problem but not the bulk one.

It is probably out of your budget but the AER amp one is the ultimate solution. They are tiny and the sound is genuinely immense in any normal venue, There's some very clever, well worked design going on there.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, I only just saw this!

My biggest problem is getting the cab up and down the stairs. The weight is the main issue, but my height is also a pain in the butt (5' 5") and makes it difficult to lift cabs up and down stairs. This sounds stupid and a bit dramatic but it's so difficult and physically challenging for me that I actually dread it. Which blows, as I love absolutely everything else about playing in the band.

I don't really want to ask the singer if I can go through his PA because I would feel like a massive heel asking to use his gear so I can downsize mine. I already feel like enough of a pain in the ass getting a lift to gigs and practices with the guitarist (even though he doesn't mind at all, bless him)

Pretty much all of our gigs are in small pubs, maybe a couple of places more medium than small. And the drummer is quite loud.

As I mentioned, I used to gig no problem with a 1x12 Ashdown combo which was only 180W and that seemed to do the job ok (was just really heavy).

[BassTractor]

Have you contemplated a stair climber?
One like these is yours for £49 incl. postage on evilbay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180985059551?_trksid=p5197.m1992





best,
bert

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1349723696' post='1829718']
I'm sorry, I only just saw this!

My biggest problem is getting the cab up and down the stairs. The weight is the main issue, but my height is also a pain in the butt (5' 5") and makes it difficult to lift cabs up and down stairs. This sounds stupid and a bit dramatic but it's so difficult and physically challenging for me that I actually dread it. Which blows, as I love absolutely everything else about playing in the band.

I don't really want to ask the singer if I can go through his PA because I would feel like a massive heel asking to use his gear so I can downsize mine. I already feel like enough of a pain in the ass getting a lift to gigs and practices with the guitarist (even though he doesn't mind at all, bless him)

Pretty much all of our gigs are in small pubs, maybe a couple of places more medium than small. And the drummer is quite loud.

As I mentioned, I used to gig no problem with a 1x12 Ashdown combo which was only 180W and that seemed to do the job ok (was just really heavy).
[/quote]

I'll add my vote for a barefaced compact. Its really as small and light as you can go before efficiency really starts to suffer - think of it as a 4x10 but only a fraction of the size and weight. Seriously I swear there is [b]nothing[/b] else that does small/light/efficient/powerful as this cab. Anything smaller (e.g. a barefaced midget) and youd probably need an amp able deliver a lot more power into 8 ohms than the Promethean. Plus the compact isnt actually too outrageously priced at least as far as hand built "boutique" cabs go.

Edited October 8, 2012 by bassman7755

[yepmop]

As a sufferer of back pain for most of my life, my advice would be before changing your rig would be;
[list]
[*][b]Learn to lift correctly[/b] (a really good bit of advice)
[*]Use a Mobile/foldable trolley where possible.
[*]Get someone to help you.
[*]See if you can store your rig somewhere that's not upstairs or at a different location then buy a Vox bass headphone amp for home practice.
[/list]
I have to go to a Chiropractor every 2-3 months to ease the stiffness/discomfort which annually costs me around £200+.

My back has ruled my life as I cannot do a lot of simple things that may irritate it and then cripple me with pain for a few weeks, all this was from not lifting an object correctly that weighed no more than 20lb.

Genuine back pain can be a life condition if you don't take care of it.

Good luck and hope you get sorted.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1349723696' post='1829718']
As I mentioned, I used to gig no problem with a 1x12 Ashdown combo which was only 180W and that seemed to do the job ok (was just really heavy).
[/quote]
If the Ashdown combo was loud enough, the 1x12" options suggested here (Barefaced Midget, Markbass 1x12" etc) will almost certainly get louder than the Ashdown did, if not necessarily as loud as your 2x12" could go.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1349159985' post='1822434']
I really want one of those. Like, really! But I don't want to shell out for one if it might not keep up with my band.
[/quote]

I've got a Markbass CMD121H, which I think is basically the 121P in a taller enclosure, with a 1" tweeter instead of the peizo. The H is light enough that I can carry it one handed (and I'm not Mr Muscle by any means), and the P is 10lb lighter than that. As far as volume goes, I sold the 2x10 extension cab I had because I never needed it. The 1x12 really is surprisingly loud, I've never had problems hearing myself on stage, where ever I'm standing, and no one's ever said they couldn't hear me, quite the opposite if anything. If you did find you needed more, and if money's not a problem, you could always add the New York 121, which is also 29lbs. I'm playing in a rock band with a drummer with a big kit and every cymbal in the Xildjian catalogue, and playing mostly pubs with just backline and vocal PA.

Edited October 9, 2012 by spinynorman

[Evil Undead]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1349775991' post='1830249']
If the Ashdown combo was loud enough, the 1x12" options suggested here (Barefaced Midget, Markbass 1x12" etc) will almost certainly get louder than the Ashdown did, if not necessarily as loud as your 2x12" could go.
[/quote]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1349779213' post='1830313']
I've got a Markbass CMD121H, which I think is basically the 121P in a taller enclosure, with a 1" tweeter instead of the peizo. The H is light enough that I can carry it one handed (and I'm not Mr Muscle by any means), and the P is 10lb lighter than that. As far as volume goes, I sold the 2x10 extension cab I had because I never needed it. The 1x12 really is surprisingly loud, I've never had problems hearing myself on stage, where ever I'm standing, and no one's ever said they couldn't hear me, quite the opposite if anything. If you did find you needed more, and if money's not a problem, you could always add the New York 121, which is also 29lbs. I'm playing in a rock band with a drummer with a big kit and every cymbal in the Xildjian catalogue, and playing mostly pubs with just backline and vocal PA.
[/quote]



That's what I was assuming in my original post. The ashdown combo was fine in the same band - fair enough, our drummer back then was a bit quieter than the one we have now, but I thought that a barefaced midget or a markbass 1x12 would cover it without PA support.

I used to use a GK 2x10 and then after that I used a markbass 2x10 and both were loud enough - the barefaced site says that the midget is as loud as a 2x10, so that's another thing to back up my assumption.

I am a relative noob though, and this stuff confuses the hell out of me

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1349783960' post='1830401']
That's what I was assuming in my original post. The ashdown combo was fine in the same band - fair enough, our drummer back then was a bit quieter than the one we have now, but I thought that a barefaced midget or a markbass 1x12 would cover it without PA support.

I used to use a GK 2x10 and then after that I used a markbass 2x10 and both were loud enough - the barefaced site says that the midget is as loud as a 2x10, so that's another thing to back up my assumption.

I am a relative noob though, and this stuff confuses the hell out of me
[/quote]

I wanted a lighter, more compact rig, but was worried that it wouldn't cope. In the end, I saw the Markbass for sale here at what seemed like a fair price and just took a deep breath and went for it. I still kept my old rig, till I was sure, on the basis I could sell the new one if it didn't work out and not lose a lot, if anything. Unless you can find someone who'll lend you one for a gig, really all you can do is take some advice, do some research, and go with your instinct.

The worst thing at first was not having that pile of rock gear behind me. But that feeling reduced every time I made 1 trip to the car instead of 3.

Edited October 9, 2012 by spinynorman

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1349800106' post='1830716']
I wanted a lighter, more compact rig, but was worried that it wouldn't cope. In the end, I saw the Markbass for sale here at what seemed like a fair price and just took a deep breath and went for it. I still kept my old rig, till I was sure, on the basis I could sell the new one if it didn't work out and not lose a lot, if anything. Unless you can find someone who'll lend you one for a gig, really all you can do is take some advice, do some research, and go with your instinct.

The worst thing at first was not having that pile of rock gear behind me. But that feeling reduced every time I made 1 trip to the car instead of 3.
[/quote]

Good comments.

Careful though OP, this post refers to the bigger CMD121H, not the tiny mini CMD 121P I think. The 121H has the head facing forwards, and is a fairly substantial size, and although not heavy, is definitely not what I would call small - it is quite deep. Very loud though and will do the job as described no prob.

I am on my second MINI CMD121P (has the head vertically at the back. The fact that I am on my second tells a story about what I think of them. Crazy light and crazy small, but not as loud or as full sounding as the larger one, obviously. However, I have gigged it alone in small isn pubs, no issue.

My advice - buy the mini one. Used if poss, and then you could sell on if it is not right, but I think it would be ok, given the inevitable compromise that the tiny size will involve. Then save up for the matching 121 New York cab, and you have a little monster rig.

I partner my current one with the small traveller 210, and it is awesome. MY last one I used with the larger MB 210, same awesome results.

[nottswarwick]

And at risk of banging on about it, the mini one is so easy to manage that is it just like taking and ordinary flight cased mid weight head along, but happens to have a speaker in it too, and a 300 output used alone. So another cab is jsut like taking one cab, if you get my meaning...

[Evil Undead]

I don't mind you banging on about it, that's what I started the thread for!

I'm curious - why is the 121P not as loud as the 121H, if they both have the same head and same driver size?

So far I'm torn between the 121P and the midget - I'd have to spend a lot if I went for the midget as I'd get a more powerful head to pair with it, but I do like a middy tone, and I think the midget might be louder. This is all from research though, I haven't tried either. I love the idea of a combo though and I like markbass cabs...

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1349815761' post='1831017']
I don't mind you banging on about it, that's what I started the thread for!

I'm curious - why is the 121P not as loud as the 121H, if they both have the same head and same driver size?

So far I'm torn between the 121P and the midget - I'd have to spend a lot if I went for the midget as I'd get a more powerful head to pair with it, but I do like a middy tone, and I think the midget might be louder. This is all from research though, I haven't tried either. I love the idea of a combo though and I like markbass cabs...
[/quote]

Maybe not louder but it sounds a little fuller due to the fairly large enclosure.

[Musicman20]

I've seen the 121P for £670 ish on European sites!

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='mononick' timestamp='1348786154' post='1818375']
I have just bought an AER amp one. It sounds great and loud for such a small thing. My new favourite amp!
[/quote]

Yup. I have had one of these for just short of a year. I gigged with it Saturday just gone. No DI - just the amp in our three piece up against a drummer and a guy with a 40W Fender Hot Rod (which according to Guitar Magazine, kicks out more decibels that a Marshall 100W half stack). No problem. Bass is quite high in the mix in the gig recording.

I luuuuurve it. Massive quality of build and sound. Tiny as well, so takes up very little space in the house or car.

Edited November 21, 2012 by The Dark Lord

[Jimryan]

If its a portable head you're after, I'm trying to shift an Ashdown superfly 500w in the for sale section :-P