What is it about Rickenbackers?

[BassBus]

I know I'm going to get a bashing for this but here goes.

I've been listening to a few clips of Ric 4003s being played on youtube recently and I must say I am very disappointed with the sound. They sound so bland.

You might say "how uninformed". Well not really. I was and am a huge fan of early to mid period Rush when Geddy played the Ric. I love Chris Squires playing and sound and still love Mike Rutherford's playing on early Genesis songs with his Ric. They all sounded great but those clips on youtube make them sound so ordinary.

Is the sound all down to processing with effects and EQ or is it just me (or the clips)?

[Beedster]

4001 strung with Ric 4445 tapewounds through Mesa tubes and 2x15 is bass heaven. You've probably been listening to those rock dudes cranking up the highs and the gain through an 8x10. Widen the search

[gelfin]

If you are listening on y tube what are you using to hear the sound, your PC or sending the audio to a decent amp and speakers.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

Most Rickenbacker clips on Youtube do sound pretty drab. They are eccentric basses and need to be tamed and understood. If you're looking for that classic Rush/Yes clanky growl we all love (except Beedster ) then amplification has a lot to do with it. The tones are there, but often need to be coaxed out. They're not like a P bass, which still sounds like a P bass no matter what it's plugged into.

[BassBus]

My PC goes through some decent monitors.

A search for 4001 produced one or two better sounding instruments. But they did have the gain cranked a bit. Still some others sound no better than a F*****.

May be it's just a case of the hands that are playing them. As I said the big name players do get great sounds from them.

[Beedster]

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1334614513' post='1618740']
My PC goes through some decent monitors.

A search for 4001 produced one or two better sounding instruments. But they did have the gain cranked a bit. Still some others sound no better than a F*****.

May be it's just a case of the hands that are playing them. As I said the big name players do get great sounds from them.
[/quote]



Try listening to some of the fretless Wal playing on YT. Does that in any way lessen the quality of the instrument?

[Beedster]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1334614343' post='1618734']
Most Rickenbacker clips on Youtube do sound pretty drab. They are eccentric basses and need to be tamed and understood. If you're looking for that classic Rush/Yes clanky growl we all love (except Beedster ) then amplification has a lot to do with it. The tones are there, but often need to be coaxed out. They're not like a P bass, which still sounds like a P bass no matter what it's plugged into.
[/quote]

LOL, but you're right Prof. Valdemar

[leftybassman392]

Personally I've never got Rickenbackers (which I'm sure is a personal failing and something I should work on, etc., etc.). This business of 'coaxing' the tone out of them sounds far too much like talking a vintage car into working for long enough to get you where you're going. I have a gorgeous headless Sei that's as easy to play as most of my guitars, plus a GB amp with a Vanderkley cab - and they sound to my ears like they were born to be together. I don't get why you should have to work so hard to get a good sound out of your gear. It's not even as if they're reasonably priced.

I was a huge fan of 'Yes' though, so WTF do I know about it?

Edited April 16, 2012 by leftybassman392

[sprocket123]

Well , have you noticed that some of these bass players where playing kind of real busy too , some Rics had not much sustain . Listen to Geddy Lee , Chris Squire , Paul McCartney ( as well as his Hofner ) as stated beforehand , so I guess they had to compensate for this .

[Mr. Foxen]

All about the driven valve amps. 'They sound their best through amps that don't reproduce the input they receive.'.

[Thor]

I was really surprised when I bought my 4003 (around December last year), I was expecting it to sound quite "clanky", rather like the late 70's 4001 I had for a while a few years ago, which sounded typically like that - in fact that was the main reason I got rid of it - although it was quite trebly, I found it was getting lost in the mix when playing live (I was using a TE AH350SMX and 2 4X10 cabs). The 4003 sounds absolutely HUGE - I was amazed how much bottom end it has whilst still retaining some nice mids/highs - I'd previously been using my Geddy Lee Jazz and had to roll a substantial amount of lows off the EQ on my Markbass F1.

I have to say the 4003 definitely has no trouble with the live mix in my current band - I'm really hooked by it!

Horses for Courses and all that...

[Thor]

[quote name='sprocket123' timestamp='1334615425' post='1618761']
some Rics had not much sustain
[/quote]

Not in my experience.

[sprocket123]

[quote name='Thor' timestamp='1334615571' post='1618769']
Not in my experience.
[/quote]

I wrote some buddy , not all of them to be sure , that you didn t misunderstood

[sprocket123]

So that you didn t misunderstood I must ve write

[Thor]

[quote name='sprocket123' timestamp='1334615772' post='1618777']
I wrote some buddy , not all of them to be sure , that you didn t misunderstood
[/quote]

No worries - I haven't played them all, so can only comment from my own experience.

[sprocket123]

[quote name='Thor' timestamp='1334615886' post='1618780']
No worries - I haven't played them all, so can only comment from my own experience.
[/quote]

Cool man , did want to be sure , have a nice one

[leftyhook]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1334615177' post='1618753']
Try listening to some of the fretless Wal playing on YT. Does that in any way lessen the quality of the instrument?
[/quote] Nope!! Good call.

I love Rickenbacker guitars, but tried a couple of the basses ans been massively unimpressed.
But, I guess as a Wal player , it's horses for courses.

[Beedster]

[quote name='sprocket123' timestamp='1334615425' post='1618761']
Well , have you noticed that some of these bass players where playing kind of real busy too , some Rics had not much sustain . Listen to Geddy Lee , Chris Squire , Paul McCartney ( as well as his Hofner ) as stated beforehand , so I guess they had to compensate for this .
[/quote]

So [i]some[/i] Ric players were kind of busy, and [i]some[/i] Rics have no sustain. Now you've pointed it out i realise that the two are causal;ly connected and those players - inexperienced and naive musicians as they were - chose poor examples of the brand in question and then spent years developing their respective playing styles to compensate for those inadequacies. It's all clear to me now, thanks for explaining

[Beedster]

Seems as good a time as any to re-post the below rant in response to a previous Ric-bash



[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1330337754' post='1555746']
Probably worth countering one man's opinion with another's here. I started playing bass in the late 70's and until late 2009 had never played a Ric. This was because everything I've heard both of them and about them put me off (in fact, a lot of what I heard was similar to the post quoted above). As most on here know, I was a Leo kinda guy; Precisions were my mainstay with the occasional flirtation with Jazzes and Stingrays. I moved from gigging fretted to fretless in early 2009 (not because I'm any good at fretless per se, but because I've always struggled to get decent tone without fret buzz on fretted instruments), and having spent the summer gigging a lovely old fretless Jazz and occasionally a fretless Precision, felt I wasn't getting the oomph I wanted from either. So, I bought, on a whim, a 2005 fretless Ric body/neck and built it up. The first rehearsal in September 2009 was an absolute revelation, both in terms of the sound and the playability. The sound was the sound I'd always had in my head, fat lows and clear sweet highs, and the playability - despite a far fatter neck than either my Jazz or Precision - was substantially better; it sat better, my right hand seemed to sit naturally at the sweet spot (I always had to move my hand to an uncomfortable place to find this with Precisions and Jazzes. In short, it just worked. OK, I play flats and go for a far more retro tone than many players, so direct comparisons with what a lot of guys refer to as 'good tone' probably aren't applicable. However, I now don't have a Precision, and it's a long time since I could say that! I also have a fretted Ric-alike, mainly as back up but also for recording when things need to be slightly more in tune).

The above of course proves nothing, it's a horses for courses world and when talking about music, instruments etc, only an idiot makes categorical statements about one thing being definitively better than another. However, I will say that a lot of people give Rics a very hard time on the basis of having played a badly set up instrument through a crap amp in a store (or having heard about someone who did), or through assuming that Squire or Lee's tone is the only thing Rics do, without ever going to the effort of giving one a real go, as was the case with me for 30 odd years. Whilst I accept the Precision orthodoxy alluded to above, I can put my hand on my heart and say that i've played far more crap Precisions than I have crap Rics!

C
[/quote]

[Lozz196]

I`ve only ever played one Rick, and loved it, fantastic bass.

But a few weeks ago I saw a few bands play, all using the provided Peavey amp/2x15 rig, and strangely it was the Rick that sounded boomy and had trouble with the sound, whereas the Precisions that played through it all sounded fine. Obviously there wasn`t much opportunity for the guy to "tame" the eq, but I was very surprised, a Rick being over-boomy.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Lozz196

[charic]

I played 3 or 4 rics back to back and found the sound and feel of each one varied wildly. Could possibly have something to do with it.

[4000]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1334614343' post='1618734']
Most Rickenbacker clips on Youtube do sound pretty drab. They are eccentric basses and need to be tamed and understood. If you're looking for that classic Rush/Yes clanky growl we all love (except Beedster ) then amplification has a lot to do with it. The tones are there, but often need to be coaxed out. They're not like a P bass, which still sounds like a P bass no matter what it's plugged into.
[/quote]

This is pretty true. I've found many newer rigs don't get "that" tone. To give an example, if I want "my" Ric tone using a slightly more modern amp, say I was using a Trace amp, the first thing I'd do is kick in the preshape, but the speakers have a massive effect too (I always found earlier, less efficient speakers worked better). They can be a pain to amplify; there are times when plugging my Sei into something (anything!) is a blessed relief, but sometimes only "that" sound will do.

However, having said that, individual instruments vary a great deal, as do players' playing styles. In addition 4001 spec has varied over the years (mine with the 1/2" position toasters at the neck sound far more hollow), as has 4003 spec. 4003s have hotter pickups than 4001s and different pot values (which again has varied over the years). Strings make a huge difference too, something that's often forgotten.

Having said all that, not everyone who buys a Ric necessarily wants "that" tone. Also, if you looked at footage of famous Jazz Bass (or whatever bass takes your fancy really ) players - say John Paul Jones, Larry Graham and Jaco - they all have completley different sounds. It's not just the bass, it's the strings, amps, eq, the player, what thye're aiming for etc etc. I do agree that in the case of those "classic" Ric sounds it tends to be an early-ish 4001 into overdriven valve amps with relatively inefficient speakers. But maybe the people in the clips you've seen actually want the tones they have rather than the ones you prefer.

[4000]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1334647593' post='1618940']
I`ve only ever played one Rick, and loved it, fantastic bass.

But a few weeks ago I saw a few bands play, all using the provided Peavey amp/2x15 rig, and strangely it was the Rick that sounded boomy and had trouble with the sound, whereas the Precisions that played through it all sounded fine. Obviously there wasn`t much opportunity for the guy to "tame" the eq, but I was very surprised, a Rick being over-boomy.
[/quote]

Rics can put out a lot of lows (especially the ones with a 1/2" position neck pickup), but IME not as much low mids as a P. To be honest, every P I've had / used I've also had to roll treble off compared to my Rics. What the Rics seem to do is sit in a different place frequency-wise; I feel they possibly have more of a clear high-mid than anything. They're not actually that trebly; if you compare them with a modern active bass they have nothing like that level of treble. The treble generally comes from the way they're eq-d, IME.

[BigRedX]

I think what this thread shows is that on the whole sound clips and YouTube demos are mostly meaningless when it comes to auditioning basses. All they show is what the individual players roughly sound like with these instruments after the audio has been mangled through rubbish camcorder microphones, poor quality computer soundcards and then further deteriorated by whatever audio file compression codec has been used (and in the case of YouTube has been compressed twice by their FLV compression too).

IMO the only way to see if a bass is the one for you is try one out yourself - ideally through your rig in a rehearsal situation.

The other thing that strikes me from some of the comments you read regarding Rickenbackers is that what a lot of people who try them really want is a Ric-shaped P-Bass.

[BassBus]

Maybe we have all become used to picking up certain basses and just getting that tone that they produce. Be it a Wal, Jazz or whatever. Sounds like Rics need a bit of coaxing with the right gear and if you are willing to put that time in you will get a tone to love. I've read about varying quality before in the brand. I suppose if you want that look and sound and you're willing to put the effort in then go for it. Think I'll be lazy and just stick with the tone I love from my Status basses.