Valuing Bassists on Stupid Criteria

[Monckyman]

I like red basses,yum.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='phil625sxc' timestamp='1327589215' post='1513836']
On first reading the OP seemed to be a reverse musical snobbery kind of question, the kind that are mostly posted by players whose own techniques are not that hot...but I may have it wrong.[/quote]

Yeah! And I bet he only thinks slap sounds terrible because he can't do it! +1! Nigel-can't-do-it, Nigel-can't-do-it!

[quote name='phil625sxc' timestamp='1327589215' post='1513836']Are you implying that music that is easy to play is superior or preferable to that which is technically demanding ?[/quote]

No. He's suggesting that difficulty of performance is no indication of how good a piece of music is. And I'd add that on bass guitar in particular - more often than not - technically difficult music sounds bloody awful.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1327590552' post='1513865']
And I'd add that on bass guitar in particular - more often than not - technically difficult music sounds bloody awful.
[/quote]

Only if you've got one of those Limited Range Basses with only 4 strings.

[phil625sxc]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1327590552' post='1513865']

No. He's suggesting that difficulty of performance is no indication of how good a piece of music is. And I'd add that on bass guitar in particular - more often than not - technically difficult music sounds bloody awful.
[/quote]

ok sorry I misunderstood the post - I thought it was saying one was "better" than the other...it's a funny statement to make though as:
a. it's pretty obvious
b. it's very subjective

[BottomE]

My wife likes a decent chopper and my dog likes a nice chop both of which are not mutually exclusive.

Me, i love a nice chop from a bassist (read any muso) if it is [b]context[/b]. I haven't seen this word used yet in this thread which surprises me a bit. Chops/licks are the easy part - its knowing when to play them in context that is the tricky part and is usually the result of experience. I wouldn't slag off any muso for having great chops - only if they were used clumsily and even then i would probably try to appreciate what they are trying to do.

[phil625sxc]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1327590552' post='1513865']
. And I'd add that on bass guitar in particular - more often than not - technically difficult music sounds bloody awful.
[/quote]

again, very subjective - it's all down to personal preference, and what you consider technically difficult...

[Low End Bee]

Somewhat contradicting my earlier, slightly po faced reply I'd say it doesn't really matter how much kudos/value people give you as long as you're comfortable and happy with what you're playing. If you can make other people happy too that's fantastic. Be it on stage or slapfesting away on a youtube vid.
I do admire Nigel's ability to provoke debate and get people going on here.

[phil625sxc]

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1327592132' post='1513900']
I do admire Nigel's ability to provoke debate and get people going on here.
[/quote]

trolling ??

[lowdown]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1327591584' post='1513885']
Me, i love a nice chop from a bassist (read any muso) if it is [b]context[/b].
[/quote]


I will add my name to BottemE's Downing St petition.
[b]Context[/b]

Hit me with your Rhythm stick.
If you want to keep that simple, by all means do.
But you will sound a twonk.

Edited January 26, 2012 by lowdown

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='phil625sxc' timestamp='1327592418' post='1513907']
trolling ??
[/quote]

Interesting and thought provoking is definitely not trolling.

[oldslapper]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1327591584' post='1513885']


Me, i love a nice chop from a bassist (read any muso) if it is [b]context[/b]. I haven't seen this word used yet in this thread which surprises me a bit. Chops/licks are the easy part - its knowing when to play them in context that is the tricky part and is usually the result of experience.
[/quote]

Post #35 Mr. Bottom, post #35....we agree sir!

[BottomE]

[quote name='oldslapper' timestamp='1327593642' post='1513939']
Post #35 Mr. Bottom, post #35....we agree sir!
[/quote]
LOL - indeed we do. Must be the fresh Dorset country air...

[SteveK]

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1327592611' post='1513911']
Interesting and thought provoking is definitely not trolling.
[/quote]I agree, Nigel often starts [i]Interesting and thought provoking[/i] threads. However, I don't think this is one of them.
With respect, It just seems to be about Nigel's inability to understand that different people appreciate music, or the components of music, for different things.

[phil625sxc]

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1327592611' post='1513911']
Interesting and thought provoking is definitely not trolling.
[/quote]

very true, but i don't think that applies to this post - I was initially wrong about the meaning behind the OP as someone has clarified it as "good music doesn't have to be difficult to play" which IMO is not an interesting or thought provoking statement...

[discreet]

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1327579352' post='1513569']
To most of the audience you're just a bloke/bird with a big guitar anyway.
[/quote]

Who are you calling a bloke/bird?

[phil625sxc]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1327596942' post='1514007']
Who are you calling a bloke/bird?
[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmQvxfo75K0

[discreet]

That's not me - I've only got black stockings.
And I'm not Japanese.

Apart from that, though...

Edited January 26, 2012 by discreet

[4000]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1327591584' post='1513885']


Me, i love a nice chop from a bassist (read any muso) if it is [b]context[/b]. I haven't seen this word used yet in this thread which surprises me a bit.
[/quote]

You obviously didn't read my post.

[Bilbo]

There are layers and layers of things here to consider and context is very much the point.

Personally, I think the best tecnique is technique that you can't see. A bit like acting, if you can see the technique, it isn't very good. When I listen to any piece of music, I can be listening for different things; a good arrangement, a good melody, a nice solo, a great groove. When we are discussing music on here, we are very often discussing a [i]part[/i] of the performances we are evaluating and not all of it. I have heard it said that the 'greatest' bass line is Good Times by Chic. Its fine as a line but the whole tune is two chords and the lyrics are total pap. James Jamerson played great lines but a lot of Motown stuff is lollipop music. There are great lyrics by Dyaln that are sung with that irritating whiny voice he has etc etc. As a jazzer, I am often accused of liking stuff that is lacking in melody when it sounds really melodic to my ears. Its all about what we as listeners require from a piece of music, what we see as its purpose at any given time. Sometimes that purpose is to move emotionally, sometimes its cerebral, sometimes about moving feet. Sometimes, we have to accept, that its no more than to showcase chops.

When we are discussing specific techniques, be it slap, tap, ERBs, bowing etc, it is perfectly legitimate to point people in the direction of that techniques leading exponents. I heard Bobby Vega for the first time this week. Great player, great pick technique. Glad I have added that to my understanding of the potential of my instrument. No I won't be buying any Bobby Vega records because his cv is full of stuff I don't particularly enjoy, same with Pino, Mark King and Jamerson. It is also entirely legitimate for kids who are new to this game to share their excitement at new discoveries. Those of us who know better should allow them to be excited. A kid who is learning about bass is going to get a buzz out of watching Wooten etc whereas someone who has already been there may look for something more tasteful. Eventually, most of us get to the point where the 'song' (in is broadest sense) is king but lets not s*** on people's picnics and lets let them get excited about stuff that floats their boat.

[BottomE]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1327597807' post='1514026']
You obviously didn't read my post.
[/quote]
oops sorry

[funkypenguin]

The flip side is why can you not appreciate well executed, complex bass parts? Complex bass playing gets as much flak on here as it does praise!! Granted there are an awful lot of sterile, technical performances on youtube, but there are some absolute stunners too. You were a fan of some of the dirty loops videos as i recall, there is some pretty phenomenal technique on display there, especially from the drummer and from Henrik on bass. In the same way, there is plenty of insipid, lifeless groove playing out there. Simple parts can be as lifeless, sterile and bland as some of the displays of technique

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1327543439' post='1513256']
Hmm, sometimes I do think 'taste' is used as a euphemism for 'lacking sense of fun'.
[/quote]
[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1327571261' post='1513399']
And there I was hoping this thread was going to be about judging drummers on their choice of hat
[/quote]
[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1327536022' post='1513209']
There are two separate issues here.
[/quote]
[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1327594857' post='1513969']
IWith respect, It just seems to be about Nigel's inability to understand that different people appreciate music, or the components of music, for different things.
[/quote]
[quote name='phil625sxc' timestamp='1327595748' post='1513986']
I was initially wrong about the meaning behind the OP as someone has clarified it as "good music doesn't have to be difficult to play" which IMO is not an interesting or thought provoking statement...
[/quote]

I don't think any of this is what our resident 'enigma wrapped in a riddle inside a mystery' was trying to say. My understanding of his proposition is as follows:
[list=1]
[*]In that there is wide agreement that one's technique and basslines should be servant to the song, not the other way round...
[*]...and that is widely held that playing 'too much' is as deleterious to a song as playing 'too little'
[*]Acclaim seems to be reserved for examples of bass playing which would - in many instances and through their orotund complexity - be contextually inimical to a harmonious and holistic ensemble performance
[*]Given statements 1 and 2, it is paradoxical (and possibly counter-productive) that do we not applaud intentionally crafted understatement as much as we praise (sometimes) unrestrained overstatement
[*]Simplicity is undervalued. How odd.
[/list]
Not much to disagree with there, IMO. Uncontroversial, perhaps.

Of course, I could be labouring under a complete misapprehension, given the gnomic nature of many of The Great Man's pronouncements. I shall ask him more on my next trip to Lhasa.

[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited January 27, 2012 by skankdelvar

[oldslapper]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1327613377' post='1514335']






I don't think any of this is what our resident 'enigma wrapped in a riddle inside a mystery' was trying to say. My understanding of his proposition is as follows:
[list=1]
[*]In that there is wide agreement that one's technique and basslines should be servant to the song, not the other way round...
[*]...and that is widely held that playing 'too much' is as deleterious to a song as playing 'too little'
[*]Acclaim seems to be reserved for examples of bass playing which would - in many instances and through their orotund complexity - be contextually inimical to a harmonious and holistic ensemble performance
[*]Given statements 1 and 2, it is paradoxical (and possibly counter-productive) that do we not applaud the intentionally crafted understatement as much as we praise the (sometimes) unrestrained overstatement
[*]Simplicity is undervalued. How odd.
[/list]
Not much to disagree with there, IMO. Uncontroversial, perhaps.

Of course, I could be labouring under a complete misapprehension, given the gnomic nature of many of The Great Man's pronouncements. I shall ask him more on my next trip to Lhasa.

[color=#ffffff].[/color]
[/quote]


Easy for you to say.......

[Austin7]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1327532793' post='1513142']
So should musicians should be 'quantifiable'?

Why do so many 'musicians' seem to WANT to be 'quantifiable'?
[/quote]

I can't say that I know why so many musicians want to be quantifiable, although it does appear to be somewhat of a trend. Personally, I refuse to bow to the bitch goddess of quantification.

[musophilr]

[quote name='Austin7' timestamp='1327623036' post='1514538']
I can't say that I know why so many musicians want to be quantifiable, although it does appear to be somewhat of a trend. Personally, I refuse to bow to the bitch goddess of quantification.
[/quote]

Isn't it [i]zeitgeist[/i]? We need "bits of paper" for everything these days. While there are some that don't give a stuff about grades so long as you can play there are others with whom you won't get a look-in unless you can flash the "relevant" qualification.