Comparison of plank vs Jazz

[4 Strings]

There was a (now rather well known) experiment on Talkbass where someone recorded their jazz copy then put the strings, pups etc on a lump of wood from their basement.

Can anyone point me to the link, please, just spent ages trying to find it unsuccessfully.

Many thanks

[bubinga5]

dont have a link, but his name is Dan Atkinson.. a well known Fender style luthier.. did lots of audio comparisons of different wood bodies.. i would bet thats the thread your talking about? search it on Talkbass

[John Schoen]

This is the thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-difference-743932/

[velvetkevorkian]

Ha, that's fantastic.

[BottomE]

A cure for GAS

[LukeFRC]

i liked this thread when I first saw it. Atkinson puts together some pretty basses at low prices too.

[Doctor J]

I love this kind of thing. Someone created a thread a while back which compared an all-original pre-CBS Fender P to a recent SX and the snobbier types cried foul, that it wasn't a fair comparison because he had installed a Lollar pickup into the SX, entirely missing the point

[benebass]

Leo Fender's test bed bass was a plank & it worked OK for him!

[ZMech]

That's a great test. Just forwarded the link to a mate of mine who's sourced some high quality wood to make himself an acoustic guitar out of.

On the subject of materials, one of my mates has bought himself a [url="http://www.pbone.co.uk/"]plastic trombone[/url], which everyone remarks how great it sounds. He pretty much only takes out his proper brass one to gigs instead because it's shiny.

Edited January 8, 2012 by ZMech

[Prime_BASS]

this is amazing.

[Blademan_98]

Cool thread.

I want the plank

[4 Strings]

[quote name='benebass' timestamp='1326017096' post='1490941'] Leo Fender's test bed bass was a plank & it worked OK for him! [/quote]

In that respect all our guitars are just planks, Leo's test bed was just not shaped, but no doubt he used the intended material (ie ash or alder). The point about the lumber experiment was that it was just a lump of cheap, soft, pine type wood.

I know lots of people have pointed out various non-scientific parts of the experiment but it certainly points to how little, if any, effect the 'tonewood' of a solid body bass has (let alone whether it's been painted in cellulose finish or not!)

I'd like to see one on the fingerboard material too, to show how a maple fingerboard, despite looking nice and bright is likely to darken the sound (as its softer than traditional materials) but actually will have even less of an effect as the body.

[Doctor J]

Maple darken the sound? How dare you not hear with your eyes!!! Witch!!!

[Jerry_B]

I think neck material only works with fretlesses, and even then it's all too subtle to make much difference.

[Jerry_B]

Actually, just to clarify that I mean that the fingerboard is what may make some difference - not the neck And even then, it depends on what covers the fingerboard wood.

At the end of the day I still think that pickups are the key (and then the amp and cab), and everything else is down to look and feel.

[Doctor J]

[quote name='Jerry_B' timestamp='1326279983' post='1494764']
At the end of the day I still think that pickups are the key (and then the amp and cab), and everything else is down to look and feel.
[/quote]
This is it. If you imagine three basses - ash bodies, maple necks, rosewood fretboards. One is a Precision, one is a Jazz and one is a Stingray. Chances are you can imagine what each sounds like, how different each one sounds. The only real difference is the electronics yet each sounds entirely different, despite being largely the same.

Of course, people will tell you that every piece of wood is different and that one piece of ash might not sound like another piece of ash, so there you go

[xilddx]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1326045703' post='1491538']
Acoustics would be different would they not . Do they not need the wood to vibrate to create the sound unlike a solid bodied instrument.
[/quote]

Yep I think some folks get a bit confused between acoustic and electric instruments. The wood matters hugely in acoustic instruments and is responsible for tone, sustain, projection, stability, etc. In electrics, it's really only for looks and stability.

[ead]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1326284760' post='1494867']
In electrics, it's really only for looks and stability.
[/quote]

I think that's about right. In terms of physics, an electric bass uses the generator effect by moving a conductor (the string) in a magnetic field (the pickup) to generate an electric current. It is possibly the case that the bridge and the fret are not "fixed points" so to speak and that vibrations in the wood will cause tiny variations in their relative position. These variations may manifest themselves as small tonal differences that could be attributed to the construction of the bass. IMHO obviously

[Doctor J]

Slightly off topic, but I just want to say how much I love you all for this rational and reasoned discussion. While reading the last couple of posts I imagined the same points being made on talkbass and how much fun that would invariably be

Thank you

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1326045703' post='1491538']
Acoustics would be different would they not . Do they not need the wood to vibrate to create the sound
[/quote]

Wood makes a big contribution to the tone of an acoustic instrument, but apparently a skilled luthier 'compensates' for different wood types by using thicker or thinner sheets with more or less bracing to manipulate the variables independently. The most prized wood is sitka spruce, a type of pine, because it has a very high stiffness:weight ratio.

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1326285716' post='1494885']
I think that's about right. In terms of physics, an electric bass uses the generator effect by moving a conductor (the string) in a magnetic field (the pickup) to generate an electric current. It is possibly the case that the bridge and the fret are [b]not "fixed points"[/b] so to speak and that [b]vibrations in the wood will cause tiny variations in their relative position[/b]. These variations may manifest themselves as small tonal differences that could be attributed to the construction of the bass. IMHO obviously
[/quote]

If the body of the instrument is resonant enough that you can hear this significantly when you tap it, then that is resonance that will transfer when the string vibrates. If energy is transferred to the body/neck of the guitar then it affects the string vibration, these are just inescapable physical facts. What matters is whether significant resonances are present in the bandwidth of the string harmonics. Construction could make a difference by increasing the stiffness/altering damping elements as with the acoustic, though generally I think there's less to play with in solid bodied instruments. Laminates will all be pretty stiff and I'd bet that a lot of guitars built by luthiers that use exotic wood combinations will be very stiff, with the pickups/pre dictating the tone more precisely as a result. But a simple maple-neck bolt-on will not be anything like as stiff, and resonances will be lower - more in the range of significant harmonic output. That talkbass thread uses a great thick lump of lumber. It's going to be pretty stiff (and coincidentally it's made of pine - like those acoustic guitar tops!).

As I've said before, if wood didn't contribute to tone then dead spots wouldn't happen. Also physics would be wrong and we'd have a form of perpetual motion machine based on plucking a string. Which would be nice.

Edited January 11, 2012 by LawrenceH

[ead]

I think we need a government funded research programme to look into this at length. The Maldives would make an ideal location due to the great diving locations. I'd be happy to contribute personally (on the diving obviously as I know s@d all about making guitars )


[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1326287568' post='1494911']

Also physics would be wrong and we'd have a form of perpetual motion machine based on plucking a string. Which would be nice.

[/quote]

...assuming friction had been banned

[4000]

My best test has been all the Rickenbackers I've owned. All have sounded different acoustically, and all have sounded when amplified like an amplified version of their acoustic tone. Based on that the wood must come in to it to some degree.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1326287487' post='1494909']
Slightly off topic, but I just want to say how much I love you all for this rational and reasoned discussion. While reading the last couple of posts I imagined the same points being made on talkbass and how much fun that would invariably be

Thank you
[/quote]

So you wouldn't be interested in my theory that Fender cornered the market and stockpiled special Precisionwood and Jazzwood throughout the 60's, culled from non-renewable sources high above the Orinoco river?

This is why Leo Fender was assassinated in 1963, of course. He discovered that Marilyn Monro had been sharing her favours with both President Kennedy and a Jazzwood tree from the wrong side of the creek.

The cover-up required a CIA agent to impersonate Leo for years afterwards, leading to some truly bizarre designs for basses, but nobody noticed.

[cytania]

The lumber bass would be perfect for playing with Seasick Stevie! Wouldn't want to show up with too flashy a bass for that gig.

[Doctor J]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1326289007' post='1494937']
So you wouldn't be interested in my theory that Fender cornered the market and stockpiled special Precisionwood and Jazzwood throughout the 60's, culled from non-renewable sources high above the Orinoco river?

This is why Leo Fender was assassinated in 1963, of course. He discovered that Marilyn Monro had been sharing her favours with both President Kennedy and a Jazzwood tree from the wrong side of the creek.

The cover-up required a CIA agent to impersonate Leo for years afterwards, leading to some truly bizarre designs for basses, but nobody noticed.
[/quote]

All I heard was that Leo discovered mojonium and tried to keep it all for himself, see?

Edited January 11, 2012 by Doctor J