peteb Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1317123444' post='1386949'] I know many bands who can't play worth a sh*t. The louder they get, the sh*tt*r they're worth. But you are exactly right. There is nothing finer than a crushingly loud band in full flight and I'm sure your lot delivers the goods to universal satisfaction. The problem arises when some knob totters into the back room of the Cat and Bagpipes (Try our Sunday Lunch Special) with a JCM800 full-stack and proceeds to plaster bloody gobbets of innocent punter all over the rear wall. I have been that knob and I repent most wholeheartedly. [/quote] Surely the point is that the Cat and Bagpipes shouldn't be putting on rock bands in the first place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317121778' post='1386912'] The landlord knows exactly what he wants. [/quote] Hmm, too simplistic again. Lots of pubs have been bought by large companies that put in a manager or muppet type character to do basic tasks such as open and close on time. These muppets are under pressure to "hit target" and "increase revenue streams". In general they know absolutely nothing about the entertainment industry. So when they book a band with live drums and get complaints they point the finger at the band when actually they shouldn't have booked the band (who are doing what they normally do) in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1317124453' post='1386965'] Absolutely. Even the dumbest band should be able to tell the difference between Glastonbury and The Toad and Duck as they've obviously managed to get past the stage of miming with their sisters tennis racquet... [/quote] Or even the dumbest muppet should be able to tell the difference between Motorhead and Peters and Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1317121591' post='1386909'] I play in a loud band, it is inherent to the high energy style we play, that's what our audience want to hear. I despise the allegations made earlier that by virtue of the volume we play at, that I am any less if a musician. I know many quiet bands who can't play worth a sh*t. [/quote] That was an extrapolation from something I said earlier along the lines of anyone can play loud. If volume is inherant to your musical genre\style then it's obviously being done for a specific reason. Playing at 'pub sensible' volumes in the sort of venues that you and your fellow band members play in would be equally as daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1317124744' post='1386972'] Or even the dumbest muppet should be able to tell the difference between Motorhead and Peters and Lee. [/quote] Course I do... Motorhead are the ones who have got the blind singer right?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317121778' post='1386912'] He can expect you to know what you are doing and play at a volume appropriate to his pub and his clientelle. That would be why he is paying you and not the other way round. [/quote] I agree with BottomE. Some will expect you to play at the volume they want you to play, disregarding that you (may be) are a professional band that do know what your doing and have set your levels to reach just the right spot in the room. We do loads of social clubs and always, always, get told to turn down by some people and moaned at by others who cant hear us. Whose right? We judge the room by the audiences reactions and if too many down the front are putting fingers in ears etc we will turn down, but now were are being dictated to by old people sitting near the front. That doesnt mean we are too loud, just too loud for some people who refuse to move and spoil it for others. Of course there are those idiots that cant turn down, or have no idea peoples ears are bleeding but its not always the band thats in the wrong just because someone says they are too loud. Then again, if its the guy who is paying you then you should oblige if you want more gigs/paying etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1317124653' post='1386970'] Hmm, too simplistic again. [/quote] I think you're confusing 'simplistic' with 'simple'. As for the widely-held animus against pub managers who don't understand the 'Entertainment' industry, that's probably because they're in the 'Leisure' industry. It may seem like a fine distinction but there is a world of variance. In a pub, one is a side-issue. In a music venue one is the focus. Learning to differentiate will benefit one's sense of place and - consequently - one's short-term career trajectory. [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1317124522' post='1386966'] Surely the point is that the Cat and Bagpipes shouldn't be putting on rock bands in the first place! [/quote] A cursory examination of those foldy stand-up things that landlords leave outside their establishment reveals that - at some point - 93% of them extend an offer of 'Live Music'. Just like landlord Bob Roseyring, landlord of the Cat & Bagpipes. He's got a foldy sign with 'Live Music' on it. To which end and to comply with advertising standards, he sets out to hire a 'band'. Something to keep the punters vaguely amused... At the other end of the phone, local man Wal Giggley (43) is beside himself with excitement. His covers band (The W. Giggley Band) finally has a gig. As he replaces the receiver on its rest, his pitifully few synapses are flooded with dreams of local stardom. Time to get the Marshall out of the garage. Elsewhere in town, plumber Gary Plumbob plans a night out with the object of his manly affections, Miss Renee Hedgehogge. A few pints, the famous Cat & Bagpipes 'Oxtail Soup in a basket' and he'll pop the question. Live Music? All the better to smooth the path. A fatal concatenation of circumstances has been set in play, whereby Bob will use excessive force to restrain Gary who is inserting a table leg in Wal's rectum. In due course, Miss Hedgehogge will weep as Gary lies paraplegically immobile, Bob will languish at Her Majesty's Pleasure and Wal will walk funny for the rest of his life. Lives will be shattered and the course of history shall be altered. It was all due to assumptions. The landlord assumed the band would assess the audience and tailor its act accordingly. The punters wanted a quiet drink and assumed the band would respect that. And the band assumed that a quiet family pub was an appropriate venue to unleash the mighty force of Rock And Roll and - let's face it - they haven't got anywhere else to do it (U T M F O R&R, that is). O tempora, O mores. We can all learn from this, I think Edited September 27, 2011 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 ^^ you sir, have just made my day especially with your amazing naming skills anyway, I have visited several pubs that offer 'live music' and I have to say my experience is usually pretty good. The band plays at an agreeable volume, in a style that appeals to most people, and it adds a very nice atmosphere. there have been occasions however, where I have wandered into a pub for a quiet drink with a friend and been accosted by an unholy level of marshall stack noise, and have left after about 2 minutes. I think it is important to realise there is a balance between volume, atmosphere created and the type of band that should be booked, and quite often one or more of these is neglected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Is Gary going to be OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Miss Hedgehogge copped off with the bouncers and hasnt been seen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1317125966' post='1387000'] I think you're confusing 'simplistic' with 'simple'. As for the widely-held animus against pub managers who don't understand the 'Entertainment' industry, that's probably because they're in the 'Leisure' industry. It may seem like a fine distinction but there is a world of variance. In a pub, one is a side-issue. In a music venue one is the focus. Learning to differentiate will benefit one's sense of place and - consequently - one's fragile self-esteem. A cursory examination of those foldy stand-up things that landlords leave outside their establishment reveals that 93% of them extend an offer of 'Live Music'. Just like landlord Bob Roseyring, landlord of the Cat & Bagpipes. He's got a foldy sign with 'Live Music' on it. To which end and to comply with advertising standards, he sets out to hire a 'band'. Something to keep the punters vaguely amused... At the other end of the phone, local man Wal Giggley (43) is beside himself with excitement. His covers band (The W. Giggley Band) finally has a gig. As he replaces the receiver on its rest, his pitifully few synapses are flooded with dreams of local stardom. Time to get the Marshall out of the garage. Elsewhere in town, plumber Gary Plumbob plans a night out with the object of his manly affections, Miss Renee Hedgehogge. A few pints, the famous Cat & Bagpipes 'Oxtail Soup in a basket' and he'll pop the question. Live Music? All the better to smooth the path. A fatal concatenation of circumstances has been set in play, whereby Bob will use excessive force to restrain Gary who is inserting a table leg in Wal's rectum. In due course, Miss Hedgehogge will weep as Gary lies paraplegically immobile, Bob will languish at Her Majesty's Pleasure and Wal will walk funny for the rest of his life. Lives will be shattered and the course of history shall be altered. It was all due to assumptions. The landlord assumed the band would assess the audience and tailor its act accordingly. The punters wanted a quiet drink and assumed the band would respect that. And the band assumed that a quiet family pub was an appropriate venue to unleash the mighty force of Rock And Roll and - let's face it - they haven't got anywhere else to do it (U T M F O R&R, that is). O tempora, O mores. We can all learn from this, I think [/quote] I think that the lesson we can learn from this tragic sequence of events is that Wal should not be so desperate to take every gig that is offered to him and that Bob should have done his homework about the suitability of certain types of live entertainment for his pub and booked that nice acoustic folk duo, the Good Ole Boys, from the next village instead Gary has only himself to blame, but then he did always have a problem with his temper Miss Hedgehogge is, of course, totally blameless in this whole sorry affair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1317125479' post='1386989'] I agree with BottomE. Some will expect you to play at the volume they want you to play, disregarding that you (may be) are a professional band that do know what your doing and have set your levels to reach just the right spot in the room. We do loads of social clubs and always, always, get told to turn down by some people and moaned at by others who cant hear us. Whose right? We judge the room by the audiences reactions and if too many down the front are putting fingers in ears etc we will turn down, but now were are being dictated to by old people sitting near the front. That doesnt mean we are too loud, just too loud for some people who refuse to move and spoil it for others. Of course there are those idiots that cant turn down, or have no idea peoples ears are bleeding but its not always the band thats in the wrong just because someone says they are too loud. Then again, if its the guy who is paying you then you should oblige if you want more gigs/paying etc.[/quote] Well there in lies the rub. He is paying you to play in his venue. You are taking on the work, as paid for. For the duration of that work he is your boss. It is actually that simple, you may not like it but that is the case. Just like he can ask his staff to all wear the uniform he dictates, to not waste time having more than one cigarette an hour etc etc. He may be an inveterate old rocker, god father of Lemmy and deaf as a post and desire nothing less than the unleashing of the total thunder that you are happy to deliver, or he may be the boss of a pub and assume that you can play as quietly as he wants. If you cant he can ask you to shut up and leave. That is his perogative, since it is his venue, and you either play by his rules or you walk. It doesnt actually matter if you think he is a fool for trying you, it doesnt matter if you cant bring yourself to play quietly for a pub night, it doesnt matter how well you can or cannot play. Hell he can tell you he doesnt want you to play because he doesnt like how you are dressed. the fact is bottom line, he is responsible for the venue, even if he is 'just some manager of a single pub in a big pub chain (moreso then even because he has to keep that chain's name good) Fact is if you want the gigs, and the cash he is willing to pay for you to play, then you have to play by his rules in this. If you dont then you wont get asked back. Who exactly do you think is really losing out if you dont get asked back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317127338' post='1387039'] Who exactly do you think is really losing out if you dont get asked back? [/quote] If you are good quality band who can get a significant number of people to drink in his pub who otherwise would not go there (and potentially return to see other bands if they had a good time), then obviously it is the landlord who is losing out the most! Tha band (if any good) can always go and play at a more suitable venue, again taking trade away from the original pub..... Edited September 27, 2011 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317127338' post='1387039'] Well there in lies the rub. He is paying you to play in his venue. You are taking on the work, as paid for. For the duration of that work he is your boss. [/quote] No arguments there, like in any job you do as you are told. and just like in a lot of jobs the person in charge can act like a twat, have no idea of whats going on and always blame someone else. My point was that while the landlord may have the ultimate word in what volume you play at, that doesnt mean the band are any less professional because they are asked to turn down. You can read a room but not second guess someone you have never met. Just going on experience (and common sense). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1317127796' post='1387052'] If you are good quality band who can get a significant number of people to drink in his pub who otherwise would not go there (and potentially return to see other bands if they had a good time), then obviously it is the landlord who is losing out the most! Tha band (if any good) can always go and play at a more suitable venue, again taking trade away from the original pub.....[/quote] There are plenty of bands and only a few venues though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1317127887' post='1387056'] No arguments there, like in any job you do as you are told. and just like in a lot of jobs the person in charge can act like a twat, have no idea of whats going on and always blame someone else. My point was that while the landlord may have the ultimate word in what volume you play at, that doesnt mean the band are any less professional because they are asked to turn down. You can read a room but not second guess someone you have never met. Just going on experience (and common sense).[/quote] I didnt say a band was unprofessional for being asked to turn down (within reason, if they are stupid loud they are stupid fullstop IMO). Hoever any band arguing or refusing to turn down when asked are unprofessional and should not expect to be asked back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317128148' post='1387063'] There are plenty of bands and only a few venues though..... [/quote] But there are only a limited number of bands that will bring in punters and help to establish a pub as a successful music venue In my experience, there are very few complaints about noise from landlords who have a pub packed full of thirsty customers who have come to see the band! Edited September 27, 2011 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1317111373' post='1386726'] We did a wedding a couple of years ago, somewhere up north IIR. It was in a small marquee at the back of a pub. At first the landlord seemed like a nice bloke, a bit of a wide boy but friendly enough. He did get the staff to ask us to turn down a couple of times during the first set and we tried. We turned our sub off, took all instruments out of the small PA and did turn down. We really weren't that loud though, and you could here people talking at the back of the marque during intro etc. In to the second he stormed over and pulled down every fader on our desk, mid song, and in front of the wedding party who were in full swing. He started to have a go at us and when we argued that we were there to entertain the guests and couldn't go any lower he told us to do it or pack up and go home. He said, in a loud voice, its my pub, i dont care about anything else, you do as i say. The wedding party were very apologetic, but we didnt make a fuss as it was their day but what a ass hole this guy was. [/quote] If the guy had done that my wedding the landlord would get no money from me.. I think he's forgotten the way you can make money.. keep the client happy. Even if he thought it was loud, he should have dealt with it better than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1317126442' post='1387016'] Is Gary going to be OK? [/quote] He can move the cursor with his eyes, so he should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 You know when you do a good job as a bad.. it's when you get called back... If you're being paid it's business, also if you are a bit loud and sound good, people won't complain. When you are a moderate volume and sound terrible or don't connect with audience, it's just noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317128276' post='1387073'] I didnt say a band was unprofessional for being asked to turn down (within reason, if they are stupid loud they are stupid fullstop IMO). Hoever any band arguing or refusing to turn down when asked are unprofessional and should not expect to be asked back. [/quote] Ok, a mix up of words, apologies for that but i still think a landlord should respect the fact that he/her have booked a professional band, and that band needs to do what its been paid to do. If halfway through the first set the landlord thinks its too loud because he cant chat to old Albert about the war etc, and expects them to play at silly levels, which impairs the performance then i would expect a band to speak up and not just do as demanded without question. All within reason of course but book a rock band and its not unreasonable to have the music a bit louder than a jazz trio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Another good thing about paid gigs is that if it's cr4p gig you can at least think of the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Anyone ever been asked to play louder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317128148' post='1387063'] There are plenty of bands and only a few venues though..... [/quote] I guess it depends how desperate you are. There are loads of venues we wouldn't play as we wouldn't be suitable. We don't go after those gigs. By the same token someone in the "Leisure" industry should do a bit of research and ensure that the "Entertainment" they book is suitable for their establishement. As i said before. There is a limit to how far you can turn down with acoustic drums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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