Where is all the decent gear ?

[casapete]

Slightly OT, but reminds me of something I read recently -

"Too many people spend money they have n't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like".

[BigRedX]

Personally I'm equally interested in both looking and sounding good.

[Truckstop]

Are you the Fonz?

Truckstop

[BigRedX]

I'm too cool to be someone as mainstream as "The Fonz" ;-)

[stingrayPete1977]

I dress bad, make no eye contact with the audience and my playing is terrible, but at least my gear is good!

[dc2009]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1327574' date='Aug 4 2011, 06:20 PM']I dress bad, make no eye contact with the audience and my playing is terrible, but at least my gear is good! [/quote]

Dit-to

[danhkr]

[quote name='bassman7755' post='1324668' date='Aug 2 2011, 06:43 PM']The thing that doesnt add up in my mind is that, given that what you say is probably true ... how do all these specialist bass shops stocked to the gills with all this gear, and the various custom bass builders stay in business ?.[/quote]

There aren't that many 'boutique' dealers though, so fewer stores take up that part of the business. Also selling one £2500 amp would probably make them as much money as a 'cheaper' shop selling maybe 8 ashdown electric blues.

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1324681' date='Aug 2 2011, 06:49 PM']Of course you're not going to see great gear down the Dog and Bollock public house, where a P bass will do and your amp is resting on a beer crate. But then, the good gear has to turn up somewhere right? When I worked at a hotel we'd get lots of bands coming in for functions and weddings (my department). Some of these were content to just turn up and slog it out with a P bass or a Jazz bass but there were many bands who took a lot of pride in their performance and brought better gear with them.

Of the few I can remember quickly; there was a bloke who played for a jazz ensemble who had two 5 string Overwaters. An Asian bloke who played for a covers band with a Yamaha TRB. The bassist for the Newcastle University Jazz band used to play a green Warwick Streamer Jazzman. Another bassist who played for a covers band used a Warwick Thumb and a Trace Elliot amp - his tone was great. Another covers band bassist played a Pentabuzz and a 5 string Spector (which ended up for sale at Guitar Guitar). He was a real gent and let me try his basses too, how cool! And then there was one very professional band (with their own stage, lighting rig and soundboard) whose bassist played a Fodera Emperor through a Glockenklang amp.

It's out there! When I used to play live I would take my first Kubicki among other things![/quote]

Hmmm, I actually prefer a good P or Jazz to any of those other basses you mention both in sound and playability. I'm not saying they're better basses, just different and it's each to their own.

Having said that the vast majority of non-pro/semi-pro bassists I've seen who use 'boutique' guitars and amps haven't particularly impressed me with their sound or playing which is what 'taking pride in your performance' is all about. Nothing to do with having expensive 'labels' on stage.

[dc2009]

Post above is interesting. Trying to sell my bass on TB I've been told a couple of times it's overpriced, and yet on here I've been told it's a silly price to let it go for and that I'm mad letting it go for that price....

The sheer volume of extra bass players in the states sure brings down the market value and very much increases a) the number of boutqiue basses in circulation in the US, and the numbers of instruments sold each week/day/month etc.

Just as an example, I saw a dingwall going at little over $1000, in great nick, things like a big al going at similar prices etc etc

[bremen]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1324681' date='Aug 2 2011, 06:49 PM']Some of these were content to just turn up and slog it out with a P bass or a Jazz bass but there were many bands who took a lot of pride in their performance and brought better gear with them.[/quote]

[4 Strings]

So do the better players have the boutique gear?

Does boutique gear mainly get aired in bedrooms with a sequence pedal for company?

[Chris2112]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1328445' date='Aug 5 2011, 11:02 AM']Post above is interesting. Trying to sell my bass on TB I've been told a couple of times it's overpriced, and yet on here I've been told it's a silly price to let it go for and that I'm mad letting it go for that price....

The sheer volume of extra bass players in the states sure brings down the market value and very much increases a) the number of boutqiue basses in circulation in the US, and the numbers of instruments sold each week/day/month etc.[/quote]

I suppose thats Talkbass/the US for you though. Talkbass in general is very accepting of boutique basses and generally they are better received there than over here with the usual 'coffee table' comments. That said, I suppose there is a wider market for professional musicians there than there is here. We're in the grip of indie rock and the pub-banger scene is huge in the UK which often equates to tatty gear. As far as I can tell, the studio scene in the US is better and there is a massive Gospel scene too where boutique basses are par for the course. Not to mention a livelier fusion scene too.

I think it's a concept that the Americans have had far more time to understand than we have. They've seen the boom of handmade basses over their since the late 70's/early 80's. At that time, the big luthiers of the UK like Status and Jaydee were associated with Mark King, for better at the time and probably for worse a few years later when Level 42 were seen as old hat. That said, we've had a few great luthiers over the years like Status, and Wal - who took over the 80's pop scene with their basses! But I suppose our British conservatism has seen old Fenders remain popular. Not to say that they're not popular in the US, just that in the US those who can appreciate the benefits of a custom bass have been better set to voice their opinion and spread the good word!

I must have played shedloads of Fenders over the years but the fact has always been clear to me: for the same money as I could buy a Fender I can get a handmade bass that looks better, sounds better, feels better and is a bit special. I don't just love my handmade basses because they're awesome instruments, I love the fact that they're special and something a bit different.

[risingson]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1331204' date='Aug 7 2011, 06:43 PM']We're in the grip of indie rock and the pub-banger scene is huge in the UK which often equates to tatty gear. As far as I can tell, the studio scene in the US is better and there is a massive Gospel scene too where boutique basses are par for the course. Not to mention a livelier fusion scene too.[/quote]

I'm not sure what this comment is meant to mean? There are indie bands and bar-bands on both sides of the pond that favour Fender and more vintage gear. The problem has less to do with this stupid and tired 'tatty gear' argument and more to do with the fact that you're unable to accept that for some people, that's the kind of gear that suits their music the best and can be the most functional for what they're doing.

[BottomE]

[quote name='4 Strings' post='1330577' date='Aug 7 2011, 01:58 AM']So do the better players have the boutique gear?

Does boutique gear mainly get aired in bedrooms with a sequence pedal for company?[/quote]
I have found no correlation between the price of an instrument and the players ability in reality. There are some really tasty players i know using "normal" gear and some players who are at the lower end of the ability spectrum using boutique stuff

Last night i did a gig on a £75 Squier

[Chris2112]

[quote name='risingson' post='1331253' date='Aug 7 2011, 07:11 PM']The problem has less to do with this stupid and tired 'tatty gear' argument and more to do with the fact that you're unable to accept that for some people, that's the kind of gear that suits their music the best and can be the most functional for what they're doing.[/quote]

You seem to be missing the point I'm making, which is, as I often say, [i]different vinegar strokes for different folks[/i]. If you play in an Indie band a Fodera will be wasted on you. If you're playing Mustang Sally at the Dog and Bollock, you're not going to need an Alembic Series II. So it's always best to choose whats best for you, and what suits you. Of course, that is not always going to suit my tastes...but then its not my bass and I'm not the one playing it.

That said, risingson, I know how you like to throw yourself on the pyre and take issue with everything I say so I expect you to miss my point entirely. Indeed, if you understood it how would you ever complain?

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='bobbytodd' post='1324957' date='Aug 2 2011, 10:08 PM']to be honest i wouldnt dream of taking all my expensive gear (not that i own much expensive gear) to some of the dives we play.i mean we played at a pub in millom cumbria where a lot of our gear got damaged and i ended up minus a front tooth because of the local roid boys acting like arseholes.[/quote]


Haha Millom! I know a few people from around there (well Haverigg actually) and from what i hear the nightlife does seem to have gone down the roid and coke route. We used to play around Carnforth and Lancaster for a bit and had a similar experiences in a few pubs there, basically a few idiots take over the pub and the landlord doesn't complain because they spend half their wage in there.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1331299' date='Aug 7 2011, 07:48 PM']You seem to be missing the point I'm making, which is, as I often say, [i]different vinegar strokes for different folks[/i]. If you play in an Indie band a Fodera will be wasted on you. If you're playing Mustang Sally at the Dog and Bollock, you're not going to need an Alembic Series II. So it's always best to choose whats best for you, and what suits you. Of course, that is not always going to suit my tastes...but then its not my bass and I'm not the one playing it.[/quote]

This is just a load of cack Chris

In fact I would argue that many modern basses have been designed for players of all abilities to be able to go from pulling out their best chops (which must be this other music you always talk of that requires such things as Alembics then?) to Mustang Sally at the flick of a few knobs. Even an average player like me wants to be able to play every style of music on one bass sometimes, Look at a function band set it can go from bumping Motown to full on Kings of Leon stuff in just a few songs.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1331299' date='Aug 7 2011, 07:48 PM']You seem to be missing the point I'm making, which is, as I often say, [i]different vinegar strokes for different folks[/i]. If you play in an Indie band a Fodera will be wasted on you. If you're playing Mustang Sally at the Dog and Bollock, you're not going to need an Alembic Series II. So it's always best to choose whats best for you, and what suits you. Of course, that is not always going to suit my tastes...but then its not my bass and I'm not the one playing it.[/quote]

Im going to pull this apart some more really too, We all know you have this idea that all indie band bass players are crap failed guitarists using as you call them "dire P basses" and all guys doing the old Mustang at the nuns chuff Inn are useless old geezers that have just started playing after 50 years but can afford a nice bass but this is miles from the truth (Im putting words in your mouth but we all know deep down your having a chuckle at that at home nodding along) The truth is that there is some monster players out there doing every style of music, What sort of pubs can you pull a crowd bashing out some Mark King badly on your own? Thats partly why some good players also enjoy the dog and giblet for the social side of things unfortunately the punters quite often want to hear superstition twice in one night and sex on fire 3 times!

[risingson]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1331299' date='Aug 7 2011, 07:48 PM']You seem to be missing the point I'm making, which is, as I often say, [i]different vinegar strokes for different folks[/i]. If you play in an Indie band a Fodera will be wasted on you. If you're playing Mustang Sally at the Dog and Bollock, you're not going to need an Alembic Series II. So it's always best to choose whats best for you, and what suits you. Of course, that is not always going to suit my tastes...but then its not my bass and I'm not the one playing it.

That said, risingson, I know how you like to throw yourself on the pyre and take issue with everything I say so I expect you to miss my point entirely. Indeed, if you understood it how would you ever complain? [/quote]

Not true at all Chris, it's just that the comments you make always male you appear like you have a big chip on your shoulder on certain issues. The point here being that you should be able to play whatever bass you want, regardless of genre or the band you're in. You're assumption that an Alembic would be ill-suited to a pub band is just a testament to this. Who in your mind sets these kinds of rules? Play what you want, if you think a boutique bass is suitable for your band then buy an Alembic.

Edited August 8, 2011 by risingson

[jacko]

I'm in a pub / wedding covers band and I only ever play alembics :-)

[thodrik]

I think a lot of people that go to gigs etc tend to see with their eyes. If I saw a band at the pub that were playing mustang sally etc and the guy was playing a top of the line Warwick, obviously I would assume that the player has invested a lot of money into furthering his interest in playing bass, even if he knows he isn't going to make a living playing bass. This for me is a good thing.

Sometimes bands are very conscious of how they appear on stage and everybody has to have a certain 'look' to them. In that case maybe bringing the Anthony Jackson Fodera and wearing a full suit and tie combo isn't the best idea when playing in a vintage rock band where the rest of your band are playing vintage gear and wearing jeans and t shirts. Whether you are opposed to the notion of people hearing with their eyes or not, this does happen.

However, if you are playing covers in your local pub, or play in a band that doesn't feel that its instruments have to look a certain way, then play what you want. For me the issue of whether the bassist in question is 'worthy' enough to play an instrument is neither here nor there. A bassist that can't keep time or hit the right notes is going to struggle just as much on a Westfield P copy as he/she will on a boutique bass.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='jacko' post='1331363' date='Aug 7 2011, 08:46 PM']I'm in a pub / wedding covers band and I only ever play alembics :-)[/quote]

I've seen Alembics put to great use in Wedding bands. One bloke used to bring a nice Alembic Stanley Clarke to the hotel where I worked. Only ever brought the one bass, never fiddled with it's myriad controls and played with the bridge pickup soloed all night long. Sounded marvellous too! But even he described it as his 'posh bass', and I can quite agree! I'm not sure I'd want to play a £4000 bass at a pub either. I'm sure the good people of Basschat have plenty of stories about equipment and instruments being damaged whilst playing at pubs! Mind you, I'd have played my Alembic at a pub, but then it cost me £600 so I'd not have a heart attack if it suffered a small ding or whatever.

If you head over to a jazz club and try and catch some electric fusion you can spy some amazing basses. I suppose there you're guaranteed a quiet, appreciative crowd who want to listen to the music, rather than just get drunk and dance (and to be fair, this crowd appears plenty at wedding and fucntion gigs too!). In such a setting, you'd no doubt feel much more comfortable playing an expensive bass.

[stingrayPete1977]

We have had more drunken knobs at weddings and functions for that matter! Did Bingley hall a few years ago, Local business award thing, Estate agents and hair dressers pissed up arguing over who has the best orange tan!

[witterth]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1331320' date='Aug 7 2011, 08:02 PM']Thats partly why some good players also enjoy the dog and giblet for the social side of things unfortunately the punters quite often want to hear superstition twice in one night and sex on fire 3 times![/quote]

Have you seen me play then Pete?

I am that Soldier........well, apart from the "good" bit anyways

[dmccombe7]

Interesting thread ?

I love playing my Overwater 6 string fretless but it doesn't suit the new band who play heavier rock.
My Warwick has a little too much cut and growl although plays exceptionally well.
My Jazz just seemed to fit the bill far better although a lack of active circuit left me a little wanting during some songs. Probably not noticeable by anyone else other than me.
I've ordered an Overwater Contemporary J4 because i think it will provide me with a one bass fix and save carrying more gear than i need to.

I also have a Harley and use it when i can and when the occasion suits me. Don't use it as every day transport and not just when the sun shines either.

At my age some of these are luxuries that IMO are warranted. No point in working all those years and not having something to show at the end of it. I use whatever suits the occasion best. At least i now have options. In my younger days i had one bass, one amp and one mode of transport being my Kawasaki bike relying on hired vans to move gear etc.

Horses for courses i reckon.

Please note that i have been playing bass and riding bikes since i was in my teens some yrs ago. I've had everything from cheap to expensive and can't really say that one is better than the other. All different and were as good as they had to be at that time. Made the best of what i had and got on with it.
Worked for me.

Cheers
Dave

[thepurpleblob]

I didn't read through all this, so someone may have already made the point.....

In your average pub gig playing Summer of 69 and Mustang Sally a 3 grand Ken Smith or suchlike will sound rubbish. A boring old Precision / Jazz / Stingray looks the part and sounds the part. I watched my way through a lot of the T in the Park repeats over the last few weeks and I can't remember a single player (and for most of them it's their day job) who wasn't playing a Fender... usually through an Ampeg or, just maybe, an Ashdown.

Real musicians don't play fancy gear