Boutique Bass owners!

[MythSte]

I've been toying with the idea of buying a really high end bass for a long time now. Realistically im not going to be in the financial position to do so for another few years but thats not my worry.

My worry is that I wont be good enough a player to warrant such a thing. For those of you that own really beautiful basses did this ever cross your mind? Or was it just a matter of seeing something you want and buying it?!

I've owned and do own a number of "good" basses. I kind of feel like my playing isnt limited by the bass im using anymore, rather the bass is being limited by my playing. I can't help but think that buying a boutique bass would just accentuate things even more. See what I'm saying?!

Anyway, Just wanted some opinions really!

[Kiwi]

It certainly crossed my mind with the Smith 6 I owned. Never really felt like my playing was good enough to justify the bass, especially with the associations that brand has. I might feel the same way with Fodera as well.

A boutique bass isn't necessarily an improvement over a manufactured bass in all aspects, the craftsmanship and sound tend to be more idiosyncratic. With a boutique bass you tend to sign up to a luthiers vision of what he thinks a good bass is.

[Pete Academy]

I've had all sorts of basses over the years. My first 'boutique' bass was an Alembic 20th Anniversary, which I bought in 1989. I sold that and had a Tobias Classic 5, which I used for about 15 years solid. During that time I went through phases of wondering if I'd overdone it and that a cheaper bass would be just as good. They weren't, and I wasted good money in trying to convince myself.

You will appreciate the top notch sound, build and quality, and your playing will improve as a result. A friend has recently bought a Roscoe and discovered exactly that.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='919226' date='Aug 9 2010, 04:31 AM']A boutique bass isn't necessarily an improvement over a manufactured bass in all aspects, the craftsmanship and sound tend to be more idiosyncratic. With a boutique bass you tend to sign up to a luthiers vision of what he thinks a good bass is.[/quote]

That's a very valid point.
But the corollary to that is that when you buy a mass-produced bass, you sign up to that manufacturer's ideal. Or worse still, some manufacturer's idea of what Joe Public's consensus says a good bass should be.

All of which are potentially limiting.

I know some players have grave reservations about buying custom-made instruments- You never know how it might turn out, and you [i]really[/i] have to trust your luthier. It's a great (and potentially costly) leap of faith.
As for high-end, off-the-peg basses, at least you get to try before you buy.

My recommendation would be to set a budget (with a bit of stretch in it!) and try to keep an open mind about the purchasing process. Try as many basses from as many manufacturers as you can and enjoy the opportunity to sample loads of instruments.

For my third bass (and first new one) I spent months trying stuff out. At first I thought the world began and ended with an MIA Jazz. Then I found the Trace Elliot T-Bass, then Warwicks. None of which I'd heard of. I tried Dingwalls, Kubickis, Fenders, Musicmen, Steinbergers, Tobias, Pedulla, Zon, Spector, Status.. Everything. I thought I had it narrowed down to a Thumb thru-neck 5, then tried a Streamer LX 5 that was more to my taste even than the Stage 1 and Stage 2. Then I saw this dusty thing in a corner by a manufacturer I'd never even heard of before. Tried it and was sold.

Knowing little about basses and having a bit of cash to splash, 16 years ago, I bought a Vigier Passion V (SeriesIII)
I still own it and enjoy it today. I may not be the world's best player, and certainly wasn't then, but it's allowed me to grow into it. It was a lot of money, but I've had a decade and a half of pleasure from it, and in no way regret buying it. I hope you have a similar experience!

[The Burpster]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='919232' date='Aug 9 2010, 06:45 AM']I've had all sorts of basses over the years. My first 'boutique' bass was an Alembic 20th Anniversary, which I bought in 1989. I sold that and had a Tobias Classic 5, which I used for about 15 years solid. During that time I went through phases of wondering if I'd overdone it and that a cheaper bass would be just as good. They weren't, and I wasted good money in trying to convince myself.

You will appreciate the top notch sound, build and quality, and your playing will improve as a result. A friend has recently bought a Roscoe and discovered exactly that.[/quote]


Absolutely spot on.

I guess I am no way accomplised enough as a musician to own what I do, but I LOVE owning them, I really get a buzz out if picking them up and playing them. Often I miss playing them (not enough time) but I never get bored of picking any of them up to noodle.

That is of course if you include PRS basses in your 'boutique' catagory.?

[Bilbo]

I couldn't commission a boutique bass as I would have no idea what factors influence the ultimate sound. My only 'must haves' are fretless and an ebony board. After that, I have no idea what works and what doesn't other than the aesthetics. Off the peg works for me. The day I find a bass lets me down, I will consider it but, after 30 years of playing, I'm not holding my breath.

[molan]

The quality of basses I own are of a far higher standard than my playing

It's really never bothered me that I'm able to play on high end pro quality basses whilst having the ability of a bumbling idiot.

I have [i]generally[/i] found that the better the bass build quality the more it enables me to play things I couldn't manage on cheaper instruments.

I have nothing against lower priced, mass market basses and they can sound fantastic in the right hands

The most recent example was a Fodera that I've had on loan for a few weeks. I thought I'd reached up to about the best I was going to get with a Sadowsky / Celinder / Spector / Sei string of basses & then this Fodera Victor Wooten came along:



It's beautifully put together and I like the looks very much, however it's the sheer playability of this that just blows me away. I really can manage things & play more fluidly on this that anything else I've ever tried along with a great core tone and a very sweet on-board pre-amp that gives lots of tonal flexibility.

Is it 'worth' twice (or even three times) anything else I own - almost certainly not. Am I selling all of those other basses in order to try and afford this - absolutely. . .

[EBS_freak]

It needs a badass.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Having had boutique basses for the last twenty years (amongst other high end string instruments), I'd be inclined to say that an expensive instrument flatters the player and almost makes them want to raise the bar and play better.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='919262' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:22 AM']Having had boutique basses for the last twenty years (amongst other high end string instruments), I'd be inclined to say that an expensive instrument flatters the player and almost makes them want to raise the bar and play better.[/quote]

Totally agree.

[Pete Academy]

[attachment=56129:poshreviloreal1.jpg]

Take their advice.

[Happy Jack]

A whole bunch of very sensible responses above, so I'll go off on a bit of a tangent.

Assuming you buy at least reasonably wisely in the first place, a boutique bass is unlikely to lose a large proportion of its value and could even end up making you a profit.

Buy a £2000 bass (pre-owned, mint, all-original, purchased through Basschat) and you may decide to sell it a year later because it doesn't really tick your boxes. You're not going to let it go for less than £1800 so - worst case - you've paid £200 to rent for a year an intrument that most people can only dream about.

In practice, you won't sell it for £1800. Now that you have your boutique bass, you'll use that as trade goods and swop it for another boutique bass ... and so it goes.

[Lfalex v1.1]

I am loving the fact that no-one (yet) has said;

[i]"Nah, waste of money, mate!"[/i]

So it must be a justifiable expense!

[chris_b]

My Lakland was a "boutique" bass when I bought it, which was before skylines were introduced, and it made me play better which enabled me to sound better. My Wal doesn't "work" in many of the bands I play in so expensive or "boutique" doesn't guarantee you've made the right move. Also GAS is not a good reason to buy anything!

I think expensive basses are worth every penny, buy only if you can hear and appreciate the difference and that difference is important to you.

[molan]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='919258' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:12 AM']

It needs a badass.[/quote]

Are you volunteering?

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='919275' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:49 AM']I am loving the fact that no-one (yet) has said;

[i]"Nah, waste of money, mate!"[/i]

So it must be a justifiable expense! [/quote]

Nah, we've just all got GAS!

I feel like a talentless monkey everytime I pick a tasty bass, but I worked hard to get it and that gives me plenty of satisfaction. And as OTPJ said it inspires me to (try to) become a better player.

I needed a new car a few months back, started out looking at basic models and inevitably wanted a fully specified flashy top of the range model. Then I thought about the depreciation, the extra petrol and the other running costs and bought an older basic car that does everything as well as a new posh one does. The money I've saved from that has gone on a couple of posh basses that don't depreciate as much or have any running costs and I'll still be playing them (probably badly!) in 30 years time long after the posh car would have been scrapped.

Some people spend a fortune on paintings, sculptures or other art just to look at and enjoy, I've spent my money on some basses I can play and look at.

However, I would think twice about gigging a super expensive bass in case it got pinched, so you might still end up gigging with your old gear.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Fat Rich

[Muzz]

OK, I'll be the first mildly dissenting voice - I've had a lot of basses over the last few years since returning to playing more, and couple of boutique basses (Overwater and GB) in the lineup, and I've found that it really does depend on what works for you feel, response and soundwise. I found I could admire the workmanship and finish of the boutique basses as objects, but the sound in my head (which is, I'd venture, what we're ALL after from a bass/rig) I couldn't get from them. I've come in a huge circle back to basics, and what I want from an instrument means the bass I play more than any is a Frankenfender which stands me at £200. It makes me play better than the £2k+ basses I've played. But that's just what works for me - something else may work for you. I don't buy in to the 'a more expensive bass will raise your playing game' ethos, but I do believe a 'better' bass will make you raise your playing game. The definition of 'better' in this context is everything.

I'd say that the whole question is entirely subjective, and the best thing the OP could do is, yes, save up an amount of money which might afford you a boutique bass, but in the meantime try EVERYTHING you can, even multiples of the same instrument if mass-produced - I know a bassist who's said to me "Oh, I don't like <insert bass name here> : I played one and it was dog" - which is IME piffle, what he didn't take into account is there are huge variations even at the high end of mass-production.

Bottom line is, if you don't know exactly what works for you (and it took me YEARS to find out), keep looking - everywhere.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='919271' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:39 AM']A whole bunch of very sensible responses above, so I'll go off on a bit of a tangent.

Assuming you buy at least reasonably wisely in the first place, a boutique bass is unlikely to lose a large proportion of its value and could even end up making you a profit.[/quote]

Well... You're looking at a smaller resale market, and if you add any vanity features (LEDs, custom inlays, signature, etc.) then resale gets harder, or if you pick a colour that nobody with working eyes would like or the colour you pick goes out of fashion, etc. I can imagine a lot of custom instruments wouldn't re-sell very well at all, and it seems a lot of people who commission bespoke guitars and a lot of people who manufacture them have rather bizarre tastes.

Also bear in mind if you're gigging a £2000+ custom instrument, the feeling you'll get from watching a teenager with a Mexican Fender make better sounds than you is going to be worse than it is for the rest of us.

Edited August 9, 2010 by thisnameistaken

[JTUK]

I have 3 basses that may be considered boutique, although I am unsure about the term here, but I never considered the bass too good for me.
I considered it was alot of money, but not too much. Having said that there are a lot of bases for silly money that I wouldn't pay for.
Not sure I'd go much over £3000 but I am a very firm believer that a £2500 bass made by a very good luthier is SO much better than £1500-2000 from a shop...at least, IME, but again, maybe it depends on who is making them.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='JTUK' post='919339' date='Aug 9 2010, 10:15 AM']I am a very firm believer that a £2500 bass made by a very good luthier is SO much better than £1500-2000 from a shop...at least, IME, but again, maybe it depends on who is making them.[/quote]

It DOES depend on who's making them. And what their understanding, experience, design skills and QC are like.
Some £1.5k instruments I've played in shops have been quite formidable. I doubt you'd find anything [i]so[/i] much better. Just different.

[Bilbo]

There is some interesting perspective taking in the double bass world on this issue.

The question is, is a £15K bass ten times better than a £1.5K bass. Answer is probably not. Law of diminishing returns. But, for me, the only question is, when you hear the bass in the context of the music, can you tell the difference and, if you can, does it matter? There are some great sounding songs recorded on cheap basses and some terrible sounding recordings made by expensive basses (I have always struggled to enjoy Jimmy Haslip and Bunny Brunel, for instance). And its all subjective anyway. I have never really bought the idea that a battery of expensive basses is necessary to do this job.

[JTUK]

You really have to paying a very good and respected luthier that sort of money, but you only have to look at these pages a few times to see that a £1500 bass from a very well known manufacturer can have problems it really shouldn't...like neck joints or pretty basic fret faults etc.

I think it is so prevalent that buying blind without seeing the thing is a very fraught business. Now, whether you should do that is another argument, but my point is that the top manufacturers QC isn't that reliable going on the stories from here.

[antti]

There is always some player who is better than you and me and still I own "boutique" basses. Can't say I have a problem with it.

[lemmywinks]

Should have kept hold of that Bacchus!


Have you thought about looking for a boutique bass second hand that appeals to you? Budget around £700 - £1000 and you'll get something a bit special for the same price as a "regular" bass.

Worked for me, don't think i could justify spending £2k on a bass, but getting a £2k bass for £700 was much more appealing and carried much less risk and potential financial loss.

Basses like this always appeal to me:
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=97460"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=97460[/url]

Maybe i'm just tight-fisted though!

[Marvin]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='919434' date='Aug 9 2010, 11:36 AM']Maybe i'm just tight-fisted though![/quote]
No cautious and or sensible.

I would, I were inclined to consider a boutique bass, look at this option.