Graphite Vs Wooden Necks

[Metalmoore]

In my search to create my perfect bass i have come across something that i am sure has had many a thread created about it before: which is better, a graphite neck or a wooden neck.

I am now back to work so planning on saving up some cash each payday and saving to make another bass, the only thing i know for sure is that it will be a jazz bass of some kind.

So what are the pros and cons of a graphite neck? Are they really that much better than say a one peice maple neck? How do they affect the sound/tone of a bass? Any info would be great.

Cheers, Andrew

[Buzz]

In before Ped/CK say they're more stable and have a snappier tone

[Kiwi]

Ahem...

...not necessarily more stable, it depends on the construction. Graphite necks generally do have a snappier tone but body wood plays a greater part in which frequencies are dampened.

I refer the honourable member to the statement I made previously...

[url="http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:tech:use_of_composites_graphite_necks_in_bass_guitar_design"]http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:tech:use_o...s_guitar_design[/url]

[JTUK]

Solid and more consistant tone typically.....look awful.

You could have a great wooden neck and put graphite bars in it..potentially the best of both worlds, IMV

[obbm]

[quote name='JTUK' post='845500' date='May 23 2010, 08:45 AM'].....look awful.[/quote]

Discuss.

[Golchen]

Graphite necks - I like the look of them, I like the feel of them. I just like wood better. You just can't beat a bit of organic!

[Kiwi]

Saying wood is better is like slagging off mobile phones in the 80s for being too big and cumbersome. The technology hasn't been refined enough yet.

FWIW all my favourite instruments are made from nothing but maple. But I still think graphite is better.

[thisnameistaken]

The main thing I don't like about graphite necks is the sticky-feeling glossy finish on them.

[Kiwi]

You can always run a bit of 1200 grit wet n dry over the back of them like you might with a wooden neck.

[obbm]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='845523' date='May 23 2010, 09:37 AM']The main thing I don't like about graphite necks is the sticky-feeling glossy finish on them.[/quote]

My experience is totally the opposite. Graphite is clean smooth and fast. Wood is slow and sticky.

[OldGit]

Neither is better per se, they are just different. It depends on what characteristics you want and prefer in a bass.

Why not start at that end and define your prefereces.

[Johngh]

Graphite necks all the way. I've lost count of the times I've bought Fenders/Musicmans that cost a LOT of money, only for them to have dead spots in them.
The only wooden neck that I've found to be 100% stable is my Shuker 6er.
Jon put graphite rods in the neck when it was built. Super stable neck, super low action. It's an absolute killer bass. I've just had a very nice offer on it if I decide to sell, but I think she's a keeper.

I've also had numerous Status basses, and all have been brilliant.

[Shaggy]

Just to go off at a slight tangent, two of the nicest basses I ever played had aluminium necks - a Kramer 650B and Travis Bean T2000 - wonderful ringing tone, and of course no pesky truss rod. Makes me wonder (a) why they never really caught on and ( why I haven't got one yet!

[Kiwi]

because they're cold to the touch? I've played a few in my time and agree about the sound though, very warm and clean.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='845562' date='May 23 2010, 10:37 AM']because they're cold to the touch? I've played a few in my time and agree about the sound though, very warm and clean.[/quote]

.. and neck dive and weigh a ton? Just my experience of a few.

Some modern Fender US basses (from about 1998) have carbon rods in the wooden necks too (as do my Shuker and Wood & Tronics basses.)

[Kiwi]

Never felt neck dive on the Kramers I played.

[Lfalex v1.1]

I own most of the available combinations apart from a graphite neck-through (Status S2 or Vigier S2) or a graphite neck with a wooden fretboard. I don't own a fully graphite-necked bolt on either (Status, Modulus, Cutlass etc.)

I do believe that the prevalence of phenolic fretboards is a contibutory factor in the snappy tone of the graphite necks.

I seem to favour unusual combinations.

My Jazz has graphite rods in it, but in the absence of a "normal" one, I've no basis for comparison!
The Vigier Passion V (S3) has the 10/90 Maple/Graphite neck-through. Sounds quacky, clicky and plasticky when played acoustically. Plug it in, and it's magic. Weird, but reliable and stable. I don't get the snap and bite. It just sings.
My Yamaha Attitude has a phenolic fretboard, and exhibits some of the traits of a graphite-necked instrument. That said, a neck that hefty ought to demonstrate some inherent stablility!
The Streamline is an all Graphite/Epoxy, and is different again. It is very snappy and responsive, but that may be down to the headless/bridge tuner design as much as anything else. It [u]is[/u] amazingly stable- it went across 900miles of France in the boot of my car without any issues at all...

Edited May 23, 2010 by Lfalex v1.1

[OutToPlayJazz]

Right, here's the SP...

Firstly, from the man himself, Rob Green at Status-Graphite...

[b]Why use graphite ?

The advantages of a Status Graphite neck include :

1. A cleaner, more even response across the fingerboard

2. No worries about the neck twisting or moving around as the climate changes.
Status Graphite necks are stable and designed to last...

3. There are also better dynamics, sustain and a wider frequency range.

So, what is graphite ?

Carbon fibre is one of the latest reinforcement materials used in composites. It's a real hi-tech material, which provides very good structural properties, better than those of any metal, not to mention plastics! Originally, it was developed for use in space technology. Later, carbon fibre was introduced for use in everyday articles and purposes where extraordinary high performance was needed, such as sports equipment (tennis racquets, golf clubs, fishing rods, skis, etc), racing cars, boats... etc.

Carbon fibre is produced by the controlled oxidation, carbonisation and graphitisation of carbon-rich organic precursors which are already in fibre form. The most common precursor is polyacrylonitrile (PAN), because it gives the best carbon fibre properties, but fibres can also be made from pitch or cellulose. Variation of the graphitisation process produces either high strength fibres (@ ~2,600°C) or high modulus fibres (@ ~3,000°C) with other types in between. Once formed, the carbon fibre has a surface treatment applied to improve matrix bonding and chemical sizing which serves to protect it during handling. When carbon fibre was first produced in the late sixties the price for the basic high strength grade was about £200/kg.

Do all Status basses have truss-rods ? :

No. Early graphite neck models, until about 1998, did not have truss-rods. These necks were moulded to be extremely rigid and had the fingerboard shaped accordingly. All maple neck basses had a dual action truss-rod which was accessed from just behind the top-nut.
From around 1998 onward graphite necks had a dual action truss-rod which was accessed from the body end of the fingerboard.

Graphite necks never move and never need adjusting... Right ? :

Wrong ! ...... Even though the graphite neck on a Status bass is remarkably stable when compared to a regular wood neck, it can still move a little under extreme climatic changes and the truss-rod may settle down a little after some initial playing.[/b]

So that's all the myth busting material, but purely from a player's point of view, a graphite neck gives you increased stability, less weight & barely any dead spots. The necks resonate in a completely different way & produce a wider spectrum of frequencies. In essence, you hear literally everything going on when you play, from upper and lower harmonics to string shimmer. The bass frequencies are warmer & thicker and the treble frequencies are crystal clear. You also get a lovely growl & a great barking snap when you dig in hard.

And to answer another point made earlier, the gloss on any neck is not sticky. It's your sweaty fingers that are the sticky component. Luckily, for those of you with over active sweat glands, there's also an option on the Status necks for a satin finish on the back.

[Wil]

Status necks are practically a work of art. Love the feel of them, but prefer the sound of wood myself. Would like to try a graphite neck with a wooden fingerboard, though.

[OutToPlayJazz]

[quote name='Wil' post='845607' date='May 23 2010, 11:34 AM']Status necks are practically a work of art. Love the feel of them, but prefer the sound of wood myself. Would like to try a graphite neck with a wooden fingerboard, though.[/quote]

I have one of the necks with the "phenowood" fingerboard, which looks and feels like wood. Just takes a little of the brightness off for a very nice compromise sound & makes for a great bass for swing bands.

[Chris2112]

I am very much "for" graphite necks, or at least high tech solutions and innovation in bass making!

Hence my ownership of Status and Kubicki basses:

My Status Stealth was "all graphite". I think its fair to say that out of all the basses I've owned, this one had the most even response across the tonal spectrum, and could give brightness that was too much even for me! However, it was sweetest with the bass and treble backed off just a bit and the mids singing through. It was also incredibly light, despite being a 6 string. This was the bass that absolutely "sold" me on graphite. I'd own an all graphite bass again in a shot!



Which of course brings me onto Kubicki Ex Factors. I've had two of these, both 1989 models with the Fender Custom shop stamp, but made with Pre-Fender parts (the 18V preamp with the 6 way selector). The interesting thing was, when Phillip first designed these, he looked at graphite necks and decided against them as they were too expensive. For his needs at least, he could get similar strength, stablility and tone from making a neck of 34 maple laminates while avoiding paying a high price for graphite technology (which was very, very expensive back in the 80's!). This neck would then be bolted onto a maple body with an ebony fretboard attached and would produce a very bright, full and slightly compressed sounding tone, which gave Kubicki a sound very much of their own when connected to the Kubicki electronics.

Of course, Phillip realised he was onto a winning solution with his own basses and kept going with the maple necks. Unlike some poorly finished graphite necks, the Kubicki necks could be finished to perfection and "felt like wood", which attracted a lot of players who might have otherwise been put off by such an exotic bass. However, I have also played and owned basses with incredibly finished graphite necks which were like glass.

In short, I love this kind of thing.

[RhysP]

I love carbon fibre necks for the even response and the stability they give. Having owned wooden necked basses with serious neck stability problems carbon fibre necks are an absolute bloody joy. I'd never own another wooden necked bass.

I honestly can't say I notice much difference in feel between the necks on my Zons & the wooden necked basses I've owned. People that have played my Zons but don't know they have carbon fibre necks have never commented on the neck feeling stiffer or different to any other bass.

To be honest I think if you gave 99% of players a carbon fibre necked bass & told them it was a painted wooden neck they wouldn't be any the wiser.

[richrips]

Quick shout out for the Ovation Magnum!!

Neck made with 3 carbon support rods, mahogany, ebony fretboard, and set AND bolted on. All this in 1977, thanks to the designer's background in helicopter design. Surprised they aren't mentioned in that link to all the Alembic/Modulus stuff. The Magnum is a great example of the kind of innovation lacking in companies like fender and gibson at the time and years ahead of mainstream bass technology.

The neck doesn't feel wildly snappy, probably due to the mahogany, but considering its 33 years old, it is showing no signs of warping and only requires a touch of truss rod adjustment when i swap out heavy flats for something lighter. The sustain, even with flats, is monumental. it's like the strings are attached to a mountain at each end!

I think carbon is a great idea. even quarter sawn wood has inconsistencies in density and flex properties. Carbon, if moulded correctly, is far superior from a mechanical point of view. unfortunately, as the link in one of the early posts demonstrates, getting the carbon fibre process spot-on is tricky.getting even amounts of carbon and resin is super difficult and good cloth is $$$$$$$ expensive. I've had a range of problems making fibreglass/foam surfboards over the years and even now i wouldn't want to spend money on the weight/stiffness gains of carbon/epoxy, because i know a few cock-ups in the process will result in critical flaws like over-saturation (cloth floating), under-saturation (bubbles = weak point), and creasing (forces concentrated = more likely to snap).

If done correctly, carbon is a winner.

Rich

[dangerboy]

Wood and Graphite? Both rubbish.

Aluminium or nothing.

But then I would say that.

[BigRedX]

Why does it have to be wood [i]or[/i] graphite?

Get a Gus which has a cedar neck wrapped in a carbon fibre skin. Simon Farmer of Gus also makes the carbon fibre/wood necks for Enfield as well.

In the end it's down to what you like the sound/feel of best.