Vintage Fenders (or even just "old" ones)

[chris_b]

[quote name='Davo-London' post='769369' date='Mar 9 2010, 04:16 PM']....Did anyone watch the Rod Stewart special the other day. The bass player had exquisite tone and he was playing a Fender hybrid. Can anyone identify that bass?....[/quote]
If we're thinking about the same show, that was an Alleva Coppolo.

[Cat Burrito]

If you love Fenders & you love retro vibes then yes, I say they are worth it. However you need to get advice if you don't know your stuff and can't just go in blind. I own a brand new Rickenbacker and a 1978 Precision bass. Both are great, for different reasons. It's easier to buy a good new bass than it is to buy a good bit of vintage gear

[thumperbob 2002]

I have been looking for a vintage Jazz for a while and my opinion is that the majority are overvalued- investments do not always increase in value and are cyclical- just look at the classic car market- believe me this could happen to basses. If people think that the same growth attributable to vintage fenders will continue for another 30 years they are mad! Or misled by the 0verall market which is designed to appreciate- when demand subsides realistic valuations will appear rapidly. The question is will demand subside. If it is true that a 30-40 year old instrument will consistently have a better "tone" than a modern Fender ( which is a matter of opinion anyway ) then I can see the reasons for appreciation of price.

I cannot see how a vintage instrument with degrading pickups- warped neck-truss rod problems- + the old chestnut cracks around the tuning peg- can sound any better than my £750 2005 American Deluxe Jazz 5 string.

Its all a conspiracy designed to send prices souring for some wood, metal and plastic!! Not that I would refuse a good one though.

Cheers

Bob

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' post='770122' date='Mar 10 2010, 10:01 AM']I cannot see how a vintage instrument with degrading pickups- warped neck-truss rod problems- + the old chestnut cracks around the tuning peg- can sound any better than my £750 2005 American Deluxe Jazz 5 string.[/quote]

True - but what about the ones that are in much better nick, despite their age...?

[largo]

IMO, it's smoke & mirrors.... If you look long enough you'll find a £500 Fender that's as good as the best vintage Fender. All this hunting around to find a good one is true, but that's the same for every bass guitar isn't it.
The only reason for owning a vintage instrument is the "vintage" appeal and yes, I would love a 60's Precision for that reason alone. I don't ever imagine it'll play like butter, have a nice low action and a preamp that I can dial in a variety of tones. I don't expect it to have a 5th string, or a fancy wood top or even for it to be unmarked. It's a lump of wood with some metalic strings, creating a current through copper wire & magnets that's then fed through an amplifier. It's all in our heads, but we all love our bass guitars and so the appeal to some is owning a piece of Fender history ! Just my opinion of course

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='silddx' post='769482' date='Mar 9 2010, 05:40 PM']Me too, there's nothing like a Warwick.[/quote]

Yeah. They do look funny.

[hillbilly deluxe]

There are proberbly more "vintage Fenders" than were ever made at the Fender factory.

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='largo' post='770300' date='Mar 10 2010, 12:46 PM']IMO, it's smoke & mirrors.... If you look long enough you'll find a £500 Fender that's as good as the best vintage Fender. All this hunting around to find a good one is true, but that's the same for every bass guitar isn't it.
The only reason for owning a vintage instrument is the "vintage" appeal and yes, I would love a 60's Precision for that reason alone. I don't ever imagine it'll play like butter, have a nice low action and a preamp that I can dial in a variety of tones. I don't expect it to have a 5th string, or a fancy wood top or even for it to be unmarked. It's a lump of wood with some metalic strings, creating a current through copper wire & magnets that's then fed through an amplifier. It's all in our heads, but we all love our bass guitars and so the appeal to some is owning a piece of Fender history ! Just my opinion of course [/quote]

But if one compares it to - say, classical instruments, or cars, or various other things - the rules seems fairly similar. That is, what you're buying into is perhaps the build quality of any given era, a particular maker, and perhaps also some sort of historical context that it may fit into. Add to that the human imagination, and thus objects which are intrinsically fairly innocuous or simple have a value tagged to them. I don't think basses will dodge these factors any more than other 'vintage' objects.

[bh2]

I was lucky I bought my Jazz back in 75ish when I was a boy... we're both vintage now!

Edited March 10, 2010 by bh2

[largo]

Yes I totally agree, but their all buying into the "piece of history" appeal. Why can no one make a Stradivarius (is that how you spell it) anymore? My moneys on that there's somebody who does, or gets very close. It's just a preception that it has "that" sound and no one can replicate. Same goes for vintage Fender's !!! They do look nice though.

[skankdelvar]

The whole 'vintage' thing - that older guitars are better - kicked off in the 60's. For Fender nuts, it was when CBS took over, around 1965. For Gibson buffs - and to a lesser extent, Martin fans - it was a few years later, maybe 1968-69. At the time, there was much to support this argument. These companies devalued their brands through declining QC, unattractive new models and sundry other acts of corporate negligence.

Thus, there were substantive and verifiable grounds to support the idea that the older guitars were, indeed, better.

This nostrum has become diluted over the years. The term 'vintage' has expanded as supply has mushroomed to meet demand. We now GAS for 70's Gibsons and Fenders (even the hideous 'Musiclander'), 50's department store guitars such as Kay, Danelectro (as Sears) and - perish the idea! - 1960's Woolworth's Encores.

Now, I'm sure these are all fine guitars in their own right and in the right hands. But were you to hop into a time machine, emerge in 1974, stride into a shop and buy a new Fender Jazz, I'm sure there'd be a grizzled wiseacre in the corner who'd confide: "These new ones are crap. Get yourself an [i]old[/i] one".

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Edited March 10, 2010 by skankdelvar

[The Bass Doc]

Personal view on old Fenders:-

I grew up, musically speaking, in the early 60s. At that time there was not much competition for the Fender bass, apart from some relatively cheap catalogue ones (of which Hofner was an example). It was noticed that most pro players at the time used Fenders and so it was that it became the one to aspire to - and they were AMERICAN FFS!

Players now have a much greater choice, custom builders of exotic instruments were unheard of back then.

Over the years there have been many innovations yet it would appear that pros are not particularly ditching their Fenders in huge numbers, thus the aspirations of younger players to own one continues. Leo Fender himself considered that he was simply lucky to have arrived on the scene when rock was starting to happen and that accordingly the sound of his instruments was what became to be accepted as the norm.

My preference for early Precisions and Jazzes is therefore born more out of the historical connection than any great appreciation of the build quality/tonal variation or even investment value.

In case anyong thinks I've had a blinkered view over the years, be assured I've owned and played most every other make on the market (Alembics, Warwicks, Statii etc....too many others to list) yet I still returned to early Fenders as the yardstick.

I am eternally grateful that there are 'anti-Fender' people out there - everyone should have their own voice (+ it leaves more of the originals to fellas like me!).

[martthebass]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='769430' date='Mar 9 2010, 04:57 PM']I've been on the quest you're on several times. I've lost count of how many Fenders (and other brands) I've bought and sold in the last few years. And my conclusion?

There's nothing like a Status. You can buy a cheaper new Fender or a hideously expensive "vintage" one at any time, but my advice is that if you've got a good Status that you like, hang onto it for grim death. There's really nothing like them.

Of course, it's all down to personal preference, but now having done it and owned most other basses (a lot of Fenders included!), I wouldn't trade my Status basses for anything. [/quote]

How long before my 2007 Status is Vintage Rich?

I'm just waiting for the Graphite to mature 'just so' so that it plays like butter and sounds like velvet.........

[thodrik]

I've owned an all original 1978 Fender Precision for about 9 years. I got it for £390 quid and apart from a few dings it is in mint condition still. See when I got it, the late 70s fender Precisions were cheap 'players' basses in that 1970s basses were not held in high opinion. Now even 1970s Precisions are going for over a grand and are becoming more of an investment than a working bass.

I absolutely love my Precision, it has so much sentimental value to me as my first proper bass. I have never played a Fender Jazz new or old from the same period that comes close to it, and it plays as well as any bass I've ever tried.

Yet, sentimental and notions of 'vibe and history aside, does it come close to my Vigier and Sadowsky Metro in terms of build quality, electronics and amplified sound without the aid of a good preamp and much time spent working with the eq? Not even close!

I'm tempted to stick on a new bridge and some pick ups, maybe even turn it into an active bass. However, then it loses value as an investment and loses the original 'vibe'. Tricky issue, but I'm never gonna sell it anyway, so the value isn't that important

despite them being vastly superior basses the Vigier and the Sadowsky would go first, as the Fender, despite all its faults, is still a Fender.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='thodrik' post='770838' date='Mar 10 2010, 07:50 PM']I've owned an all original 1978 Fender Precision for about 9 years. I got it for £390 quid and apart from a few dings it is in mint condition still.[/quote]

If you want a laugh sometime I'll tell you what I paid for mine one day!

[bh2]

I paid £350 for mine in '75... it was in the shop, hanging there with one of it's brand new bretheren next to it... they were both about the same price and I went for the old knackered, beaten up pile of rust and wood that was this bass.

Didn't know anything about the 'vintage' thing in those days, I just knew I was in love.

[Marvin]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='770646' date='Mar 10 2010, 05:16 PM']I am eternally grateful that there are 'anti-Fender' people out there - everyone should have their own voice (+ it leaves more of the originals to fellas like me!).[/quote]

No competition from me. Most vintage Fenders cost more than my car and I had to have medical assistance to remove my wallet from my pocket when buying that one.

[alanbass1]

My '62 P Bass is....just very special. It is a great playing and sounding bass and has a real resonance to the sound. It is lightweight and you feel the strings vibrating through the body when you play it. If there is one bass I would never sell it's my '62 P Bass.

[Happy Jack]

So how much do you want for it, Alan?

[alanbass1]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='770972' date='Mar 10 2010, 09:38 PM']So how much do you want for it, Alan?

[/quote]

Nowt as she's going nowhere . My dad got it for me back in '75 and she's been round the world a few times with me. Part of the family now.

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='770646' date='Mar 10 2010, 05:16 PM']I am eternally grateful that there are 'anti-Fender' people out there - everyone should have their own voice (+ it leaves more of the originals to fellas like me!).[/quote]

Fenders are okay. I've yet to see 100% why they're better than anyone else, as such. Out of all the Fenders I've tried, I still like my MIJ one the most, even tho' I guess that's not a 'proper' Jazz. The T-40 beats all of them, I reckon...

[lojo]

I have a rickenbacker which I keep choosing not to gig over my fender, I am seriously considering turning my dream ric into a dream fender but unlike the ric cant seem to gauge what the correct prices are

Id love to find something that would hold its value but also not be so special Id be scared to leave it on a stand near groups of half cut gig goers

Is this possible, as if it were just to keep at home then I may as well keep the ric on the wall (it does look nice!)

[bh2]

Just posting a pic of my pride and joy... i take it out to play as often as I can.



It's had a few mods over the years!

Edited March 11, 2010 by bh2

[bubinga5]

I wonder what my Closet Classic Custom shop LTD edition Jazz will be worth in 20-30 years....?..Not sure it will age the same in mind, as the original vintages..

Edited March 11, 2010 by bubinga5