tauzero Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 6 hours ago, KingBollock said: I like to socket ICs, so I had a quick look to see if it is possible to socket SMD ICs, and it is. It’s possible to convert SMD to DIP. I was kind of hoping that there was a way of making using SMD ICs easier, maybe some kind of clamp system, or something. I don’t know. I have never used SMD stuff before, I don’t think. But, anyway, at least it appears that I can use SMD ICs (I don’t know about other components, I didn’t look) on vero-board. I have narrow soldering iron tips. One comes to a 1mm wide flat tip and another comes to a point. So I should be alright there. I’m a bit of a dinosaur with this stuff. Most of my electronics experience comes from college (including work placements) from 1991 to 1993. And I’ve forgotten most of it. You can get adaptors but you need to solder the SMD IC to them. For a typical 8-pin SMD IC, there aren't sockets available, unlike DIP ICs. I've got small soldering iron bits but I'm not very good at keeping things steady (including my hands) - I find it's the feeding of the solder that tends to go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke_zero Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 A little flux pen helps - the solder sticks in the right places. Then it's a matter of positioning the chip with special tweezers. There are some really good videos that demystify the process. But I agree - it's not easy if your hand is unsteady (like mine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 My soldering improved no end when someone sold me lead solder as that’s all they had in stock… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passinwind Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 9 hours ago, KingBollock said: I like to socket ICs, so I had a quick look to see if it is possible to socket SMD ICs, and it is. It’s possible to convert SMD to DIP. I was kind of hoping that there was a way of making using SMD ICs easier, maybe some kind of clamp system, or something. I don’t know. I have never used SMD stuff before, I don’t think. But, anyway, at least it appears that I can use SMD ICs (I don’t know about other components, I didn’t look) on vero-board. I have narrow soldering iron tips. One comes to a 1mm wide flat tip and another comes to a point. So I should be alright there. I’m a bit of a dinosaur with this stuff. Most of my electronics experience comes from college (including work placements) from 1991 to 1993. And I’ve forgotten most of it. As with so many things, it just takes a bit of practice and technique refinement and then the larger format SMT parts are not that big of a deal, IMO and IME. I've gotten my own SO-8 to Dip converter boards made up but thankfully I rarely need to use them these days. There are perfectly decent DIP opamps readily available, and if "close enough" is one's style that's that. I find no joy there, but I've been at this a very very long time and need a progressively bigger hit to justify even bothering by now. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 19 minutes ago, LukeFRC said: My soldering improved no end when someone sold me lead solder as that’s all they had in stock… I always use 60/40 22swg multicore. It's still easily available on That Ebay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 44 minutes ago, tauzero said: I always use 60/40 22swg multicore. It's still easily available on That Ebay. Yes! Toxic fumes aside lead/tin is magic stuff! I trained myself to resolver using lead free as my sons were showing an interest in it, and I didn’t want to poison them slowly. I doubt I’ll go back to 60/40 now just because I’m used to lead free stuff now, but damn it was easy to work with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Rosin and resin burn, yes, but you get the same stuff from lead free solder, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 hour ago, itu said: Rosin and resin burn, yes, but you get the same stuff from lead free solder, too. You don't get the lead fumes from lead-free solder, which is rather the point. It's not enough to be a danger to a hobbyist but if you're soldering all day every day or doing flow soldering it is a hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulThePlug Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Used to have those extractor nozzles on the soldering iron, next to the tip. Bloody things just got in the way... Love the smell of LMP in the morning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 The boiling point/Vaporisation temperature of Lead is 1750 Celsius or over 4 times the temperature of a soldering iron. That suggests the fumes are purely from the flux. I remember when lead free soldering came in a Panasonic and the fault rate from dry joints shot up. However I have used both types and personally never has a problem. The iron does need to be hotter though for lead free. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 The fumes from both forms are largely the flux, you're not inhaling lead (or tin) from 60/40 fumes no more than you're inhaling silver from lead free fumes. Flux isn't exactly good for your health either, so extraction is always advisable. 60/40 is a health Hazard because of the solid lead particles that are inevitably released when handling it. How many of us who use it as hobbyists are washing our hands thoroughly after soldering, wearing disposable gloves, making sure we don't cross contaminate tools, coffee mugs etc.? I used to work for a CEM and our work instructions for leaded builds included the phrase "raw chicken". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, bobbass4k said: our work instructions for leaded builds included the phrase "raw chicken". That is a good way of remembering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 On that point, where does everyone buy their solder from? My last lot came from Maplin RIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said: On that point, where does everyone buy their solder from? My last lot came from Maplin RIP Contrary to apparently very popular belief, there's no blanket ban on the sale of leaded solder. The RoHS/REACH/WEEE etc. Regulations apply to commercially sold products. There's also a lot of confusion due to the soldering crossover with plumbing, where obviously it is banned. Many retailers restrict the sale to "professional users" due to new guidelines from the HSE. Some places like rapid and I think RS do this by limiting it to credit account customers. Farnell and CPC have the same restriction in principle but you can successfully check out as a guest. A variety of smaller places will also sell it freely with similar restrictions in principle, but no enforcement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 11 hours ago, bobbass4k said: The fumes from both forms are largely the flux, you're not inhaling lead (or tin) from 60/40 fumes no more than you're inhaling silver from lead free fumes. Flux isn't exactly good for your health either, so extraction is always advisable. 60/40 is a health Hazard because of the solid lead particles that are inevitably released when handling it. How many of us who use it as hobbyists are washing our hands thoroughly after soldering, wearing disposable gloves, making sure we don't cross contaminate tools, coffee mugs etc.? I used to work for a CEM and our work instructions for leaded builds included the phrase "raw chicken". According to https://weldingmastermind.com/can-you-get-lead-poisoning-from-soldering-heres-the-truth/ there's both lead dust and lead contamination of fumes. I must admit to liking the smell of resin fumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 minute ago, tauzero said: I must admit to liking the smell of resin fumes. Would that be in the morning? Does it smell of victory? S'manth x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Smanth said: Would that be in the morning? Does it smell of victory? S'manth x I was resisting the temptation, especially as (until now) I've done my soldering at evenings and weekends, and the only purpose of Saturday and Sunday mornings is breakfast (which should not be eaten while soldering). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 16 hours ago, tauzero said: According to https://weldingmastermind.com/can-you-get-lead-poisoning-from-soldering-heres-the-truth/ there's both lead dust and lead contamination of fumes. There was this comment in the original link: "Lead Poisoning Through Inhalation If the solder contains lead, the melting process can release fumes that contain lead contaminants." I checked all links that were included in the text (and some extra, just in case). Not a single had anything related to "fumes that contain lead contaminants" except this Weldingmastermind's. As @Chienmortbb wrote earlier, Pb is boiling at 1750 °C. Fumes are from burning resin or rosin. Not healthy, but not tin nor lead nor silver. But handling may cause the solder to reach your body. Sweaty, slightly acidic hands do love different chemicals. I hate many greases and oils because they travel through the skin to circulation, i.e. everywhere to the body - and gloves are not always an option. I was working with electronics earlier. Lead was not an issue, otherwise there would have been tests. But those involved with radioactive materials had to go through various tests few times a year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 One of the most effective ways to get lead into your body is to handle solder, then roll a cigarette and smoke it. Lead contaminated paper, high temperature combustion, perfect. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekomatic Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 The other issue with lead is what will happen to the device at end-of-life. If it stops working and you are still around then hopefully you will be responsible enough to ensure it’s disposed of properly, though that may become harder to do as commercial electronics become exclusively lead-free. If you’re gone, how do you know it’ll be looked after correctly rather than ending up polluting the environment for future generations? I know the quantity of material involved is tiny but it still seems to me like the right thing not to use it. I don’t find working with lead free solder that hard as long as you have a temperature controlled iron and the right size bit for each job. Obviously that does involve some extra expense though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 You know everyone says “check every part” and you think “I should check every part” but don’t and sometimes you get away with it and sometimes the 2m resistors turn out to have been labeled wrong and are 2k so that doesn’t work there’s a lesson there for us all, which lets be honest, we probably won’t all do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke_zero Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 On bigger build you have to. I built a 303 replica and got a resistor value wrong in the first section (the power supply - you build each section and test) which caused me more heartache than I can really admit. There is a vintage synth wizard down the road from me - I took it to him and he found it within minutes. I felt very humble at that moment. After that I checked every resistor value with the digital meter I have. Saved me any futher angst! And his minimum bench fee... I feel your pain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 On 31/12/2022 at 23:45, tauzero said: According to https://weldingmastermind.com/can-you-get-lead-poisoning-from-soldering-heres-the-truth/ there's both lead dust and lead contamination of fumes. I must admit to liking the smell of resin fumes. Clearly a site with a deep understanding of the process: Quote During the soldering process, the solder is heated to approximately 600 degrees Fahrenheit, which causes it to melt. It is then poured into the joint between the two components that need to be bonded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 2 hours ago, bloke_zero said: On bigger build you have to. I built a 303 replica and got a resistor value wrong in the first section (the power supply - you build each section and test) which caused me more heartache than I can really admit. There is a vintage synth wizard down the road from me - I took it to him and he found it within minutes. I felt very humble at that moment. After that I checked every resistor value with the digital meter I have. Saved me any futher angst! And his minimum bench fee... I feel your pain! Were the bands on the resistor the wrong colours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 I must admit in all my years of working both as hobby electronics and later as an electronic engineer (which I guess counts for about 20+), I have been liucky enough to never has found a resistor with the wrong values on it. Some are harder to see than others, but never wrong. Capacitors on the other hand... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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