kevbass Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hello good folks of basschat, apologies if this topic has been raised before but what are your opinions on buying vintage fender instruments for purposes of investment? Do you think the value of vintage fender instruments is likely to continue to increase as the instrument gets older still and that 1969 Jazz sitting in its case under your bed is your pension plan?, or perhaps you think the value of vintage fenders has peaked and the value will increase at a much slower rate? What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I think there are investments with higher returns available, that don't require the value of your investment to be sitting in your house waiting to go up in a fire or get nicked by chavs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 About 18 months ago the average investment growth for a vintage Fender was about 10% annually (apparently). What it is now is anyone's guess, but given that interest rates are so low and that the stock market is up and down like a whore's drawers (short term) it's still probably not a bad place to spend your money if you can find one at a good price, after all you can't play an investment bond . The down side of an investment vintage instrument is that you might fall in love with it and not be able to bear to sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) There's no absolute guarantee that prices will continue to rise - witness the collapse of the postage stamp, Victorian furniture and classic car markets. And as the bass is a tool which may be superceded, it may one day find itself alongside the kazoo, the banjo and the mandocello in 'fashionable instrument heaven'. Thus it may not have the long-term security of, say, fine art. Edited November 12, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Investing my savings in some niche appeal instruments helped me stave off the effects of redundancy for a good 12 months. I didn't set out to invest my money though, I got lucky with the choice of instruments. Still, way better than sinking my money into a flash motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='652843' date='Nov 12 2009, 05:46 PM']... the long-term security of, say, fine art.[/quote] Which is itself subject to the whims of fashion. Monet, Manet and Matisse may all look pretty safe, but would you put your money in an unmade bed (Emin) or a decomposing cow (Hirst)? Famously, there are NO guarantees of anything when it comes to seeking high rates of return, and the old guarantees that used to exist for some forms of relatively low-return investment (e.g. pension funds) look rather less ... erm ... guaranteed these days. A year ago, even the safest forms of investment (simple deposit accounts at your local bank) were under threat. To the OP, I'm no investment guru and certainly no expert on vintage Fenders, but as a general rule a good investment needs to be (i) scarce, (ii) desirable and (iii) portable. If it is also in [b][i]shrinking [/i][/b]supply then so much the better. The Fender Jazz ticks all those boxes, which is one of the two reasons I'm currently planning to make exactly this investment. The other reason, of course, is that a high-quality vintage bass is also a delightful thing to own and play. One final point before everyone falls asleep. Unless you're planning to do this on an industrial scale, it really DOESN'T MATTER! If you buy the best of the best, a pristine 1964 at £8000 say, do the arithmetic. If it doubles in (real) value by the time you retire then that's - whoopee!!! - £8000. You could buy a cheap car for that. If it increases in (real) value at a gentle rate and ends up being valued at £12k then you've tipped all of £4000 into your retirement pot. These are very small numbers. And they assume that you're prepared to invest £8000 in the first place, which I am certainly [b][i]not [/i][/b]going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' post='652863' date='Nov 12 2009, 06:07 PM']Monet, Manet and Matisse may all look pretty safe...[/quote] Those were the sort of lads I had in mind - Frenchies to a man. Quality daubs. Yer money's safe there. Emin and Hirst are reaching the end of their first phase of celebrity. Expect a renewal of interest around 2264.. Edited November 12, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I have... all three of my basses are investments. That said, I bought them to play. The investment side is a cheeky bonus. And if they get nicked... that's what insurance is for, innit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Why necessarily go for Vintage instruments or Fenders? If you know what you're looking at (and, let's face it, quite a few people on here do!) you can spot good buys and shift them on at a profit in the short term. That's what I'd do - Think in terms of selling (dare I say it) Second hand cars, and apply that methodology. Make a bit on each one you sell. Maybe take the odd hit, but sell in [i]moderate[/i] volume. Best one I've got (so far) I paid £299 for. New. Best offer to date? £1100. I think I'd break even on many others. It's a stonker, though, so I'm not selling. I consider it a [i]bargain[/i] rather than an investment! Edit for neglecting to mention that you'd keep the really blinding instruments!! Edited November 12, 2009 by Lfalex v1.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentode Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I intend to retire on the proceeds from selling all the Fenders I hope to be stumbling across in my uncles' loft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Probably a long term view is better at present as there are quite a few people having to part with nice stuff at a time when they need to realise some cash to survive. Not nice to take advantage of that but if you don't, someone else will so now is the time to buy. The market always recovers to some extent and if it comes back with a vengance, it only takes one article in a city-boys magazine to highlight the appeal of vintage guitars and basses as an investment and you'd be back to the good old days of Japanese bank execs buying Les Pauls and Maseratis (and maybe Fender Jazz's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo-London Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I reckon that the next thing will be the rise in value of the early MIJ Fender Jazzes. From 1982 -84. Even though some of these say Squier, they outplay IMHO all the MIA output from the 80's through to middle 2000s. So buy now whilst they are still affordable. I agree that a single purchase isn't really going to make a world of difference although the John Entwistle Jazz for sale in vintage and rare would be a good place to start haggling with the owner. Afterall, it's been on sale for a long time. So maybe the £24k they are asking could be reduced to £14k and this could be a very sound investment. Overall, if you want to make a killing this isn't the place to be as stratospheric prices are really only reached with 1950's gold top Les Pauls and early Strats. You would be better chancing your arm with penny shares and the like. Cheers Davo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='652863' date='Nov 12 2009, 06:07 PM']If it doubles in (real) value by the time you retire then that's - whoopee!!! - £8000. You could buy a cheap car for that. If it increases in (real) value at a gentle rate and ends up being valued at £12k then you've tipped all of £4000 into your retirement pot. These are very small numbers. And they assume that you're prepared to invest £8000 in the first place, which I am certainly [b][i]not [/i][/b]going to do.[/quote] For items like vintage basses you NEED for them to appreciate in order to even cover the costs of ownership which, as far as insurance goes, could potentially be quite a bit unless you have the bass stashed in a secure deposit facility somewhere. Plus there's the lack of peace of mind if you do use the bass in having 8000 quid wrapped up in something that can be easily lifted with one hand from a venue somewhere while you're not looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duarte Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='652843' date='Nov 12 2009, 05:46 PM']And as the bass is a tool which may be superceded, it may one day find itself alongside the kazoo, the banjo and the mandocello in 'fashionable instrument heaven'. Thus it may not have the long-term security of, say, fine art.[/quote] Oh don't say that! If everyone played Bongos this would not happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 You might be better off trying to work out what's going to be the next Wal while it's still deeply unfashionable and therefore cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='Duarte' post='653867' date='Nov 13 2009, 05:52 PM']Oh don't say that! If everyone played Bongos this would not happen.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 If I put on my accountants hat I would say that there is also a tax issue as well as you may be liable for Capital Gains tax depending on your circumstances God I 'm talking about tax on a Friday night - I'm off to share a bottle of wine with Mrs Thunderbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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