Mickeyboro Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm treating myself this morning to playing their first three albums right the way through as I work. The Dan get much praise here, but mostly for their later more complex work which can't hold a candle to Can't Buy A Thrill, Countdown To Ecstasy and Pretzel Logic. What's more they have bass lines I can actually attempt to play, as opposed to the complex finger-twisters of later years. Was it when Becker stopped playing bass that this happened? Or am I alone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 MB1. ...Pretzel logic and Fire in the hole are two of my faves!...Chuck Rainey complicated matters later!.......they did have various session bassists in......Still Mustard though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I love those first 3 albums, bought them as they came out when I was a student from 73-76. There was a joy in their vocals and variety in the songs which I don't hear in their much more recent work. Still appreciate Aja and the like but Everthing must Go and Two against Nature are too "chugga chugga" guitar riffs for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I like all the SD bass players but Tom Barney played the whole back catalogue exactly right which is why he's my favourite bassist of the lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='Mickeyboro' post='649507' date='Nov 9 2009, 11:13 AM']What's more they have bass lines I can actually attempt to play, as opposed to the complex finger-twisters of later years. Was it when Becker stopped playing bass that this happened? Or am I alone... [/quote] Hmm this is just an observation so don't take it the wrong way but... one way of interpreting what you seem to be saying is... 'it's too difficult for me therefore I won't like it' I think there are some dynamite bass parts throughout the Dan catalogue and there is literally nothing they do that I couldn't play. So, it's just subjective, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) I can play most of it but Kid Charlemane always nobbles me,cant buy a thrill is a superb album,it always makes me want to move to california. Edited November 9, 2009 by YouMa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeyboro Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='jakesbass' post='649677' date='Nov 9 2009, 01:38 PM']one way of interpreting what you seem to be saying is... 'it's too difficult for me therefore I won't like it'[/quote] I think my original post was wondering if the camps divide between those like me who prefer the commercially appealing stuff my non-musician fans like and those (some on here) who go weak at the knees for a complex bassline regardless of song quality. I'm also aware some of us play Dan material for a living, so am interested in their take. Also, as a side issue, was Becker a limited bassist? Or did he just play what suited the song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='Mickeyboro' post='649698' date='Nov 9 2009, 02:04 PM']I think my original post was wondering if the camps divide between those like me who prefer the commercially appealing stuff my non-musician fans like and those (some on here) who go weak at the knees for a complex bassline regardless of song quality. I'm also aware some of us play Dan material for a living, so am interested in their take. Also, as a side issue, was Becker a limited bassist? Or did he just play what suited the song?[/quote] Fair point, and a little more info makes your thinking come across more clearly. Becker? Limited yes, but right for the material? Definitely. I think part of Dan's greatness is that they made more complex and substantial material acceptable to a very large audience. What is nice is that there's something for everyone... A catchy tune like Peg, great to whistle to, but for the more detailed among us... ever noticed it's a 13 bar sequence....? AJA sold a LOT of copies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I think that that is the Dan's appeal. The material is sophisticated and accessible at the same time. Like Pat Metheny, it lets you sing along without realising how bloody hard it is to write and perform. I haven't heard any Dan lines I couldn't play. Some I wouldn't ahve WRITTEN, yes, but none I couldn't play. And I agree - a great/complex bassline is not enough to make a song great. I said it elsewhere: James Jamerson - great player on lousy material! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFW Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='649718' date='Nov 9 2009, 02:33 PM']I said it elsewhere: James Jamerson - great player on lousy material![/quote] *breathes in and counts to ten* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Any competent player can copy the SD bass parts. Granted, there are some tricky ones - Charlemagne, Bodhisattva, Gaslighting Abbie - but it's just a matter of letting the chord changes sink in. Aja, Deacon Blues and Babylon Sisters have a lot of changes. However, I'm convinced the hard part is getting the feel right. If you listen to Kid Charlemagne, there's a magical feel between the bass and drums, a funk/reggae groove. I think I have to agree with Jake. The earlier stuff is easier to play, but they were constantly pushing the envelope as the albums went on. Glamour Profession is a masterpiece. The latest albums with Becker show him to be a great bassist. Jack Of Speed is incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I prefer Becker as a bassist rather than a guitarist and all of the SD drumming is great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerdragon Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='649718' date='Nov 9 2009, 02:33 PM']And I agree - a great/complex bassline is not enough to make a song great. I said it elsewhere: James Jamerson - great player on lousy material![/quote] I agree with most of the stuff you post on here Bilbo. but that's got me scratching my head. could you give me an example of the lousy material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Can anyone show me how to play charlemagne right then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='YouMa' post='649680' date='Nov 9 2009, 01:41 PM']I can play most of it but Kid Charlemane always nobbles me[/quote] Didn't Rainey say he could never play it the same again himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='YouMa' post='650009' date='Nov 9 2009, 07:54 PM']Can anyone show me how to play charlemagne right then?[/quote] There's a couple of good examples on YouTube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='650012' date='Nov 9 2009, 07:56 PM']Didn't Rainey say he could never play it the same again himself?[/quote] Rainey has admitted this was probably his finest ever line. Unbelievable bass part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alun Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Must admit I like all of it The only one that consistently trips me up is Gaucho - the chords change in very odd places! Cheers Alun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='beerdragon' post='650008' date='Nov 9 2009, 07:54 PM']I agree with most of the stuff you post on here Bilbo. but that's got me scratching my head. could you give me an example of the lousy material?[/quote] Yes Bilbo, please explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='beerdragon' post='650008' date='Nov 9 2009, 07:54 PM']I agree with most of the stuff you post on here Bilbo. but that's got me scratching my head. could you give me an example of the lousy material?[/quote] What's Goin On, Bilbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Pete Academy' post='650001' date='Nov 9 2009, 07:45 PM']The latest albums with Becker show him to be a great bassist. Jack Of Speed is incredible.[/quote] +1 also blues beach is a lovely line and quirkily uses the 4th of the scale but in totally palatable and very funky fashion. The fourth is one of the less consonant notes and in bass lines if used as a principal note rather than in passing can sound very unfinished (not least because it offers the notion of a suspension) but in that line Becker fits it in beautifully. As Pete says the notes are quite straightforward to cop but the feels are very important so the songs are lifeless without the right feel. Edited November 9, 2009 by jakesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='YouMa' post='650009' date='Nov 9 2009, 07:54 PM']Can anyone show me how to play charlemagne right then?[/quote] well I could but I think you're a bit far away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='jakesbass' post='650030' date='Nov 9 2009, 08:12 PM']+1 also blues beach is a lovely line and quirkily uses the 4th of the scale but in totally palatable and very funky fashion. The fourth is one of the less consonant notes and in bass lines if used as a principal note rather than in passing can sound very unfinished (not least because it offers the notion of a suspension) but in that line Becker fits it in beautifully. As Pete says the notes are quite straightforward to cop but the feels are very important so the songs are lifeless without the right feel.[/quote] Wow, you've lost me on that, mate. I just play 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='beerdragon' post='650008' date='Nov 9 2009, 07:54 PM']I agree with most of the stuff you post on here Bilbo. but that's got me scratching my head. could you give me an example of the lousy material?[/quote] My Girl - Temptations Ooh Baby Baby - The Miracles To Many Fish In The Sea - The Marvelettes Heat Wave - Martha & The Vandellas This Old Heart Of Mine - Isley Brothers Where Did Our Love Go (U) - Diana/Supremes My Guy - Mary Wells Dancing In The Streets - Martha & The Vandellas Don't Mess With Bill - The Marvelettes Mickey's Monkey (U) - The Miracles Cloud Nine - Temptations My Baby Loves Me - Martha & The Vandellas Little Darling (I Need You) - 4 Tops I'm Ready For Love The Way You Do The Things You Do - Temptations You're All I Need To Get By - Temptations You Can't Hurry Love - Diana/Supremes Shop Around - The Miracles Take Me In Your Arms (And Rock Me A Little While) - Brenda Holloway My Baby Must Be A Magician - The Marvelettes Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart - Diana/Supremes Beauty Is Only Skin Deep - Temptations Going To A Go-Go - The Miracles Hitch Hike - Marvin Gaye I Second That Emotion - The Miracles Please Mr. Postman - The Marvelettes Jmmy Mack - Martha & The Vandellas Shake Me, Wake Me (When It's Over) - 4 Tops I'm Gonna Make You Love Me - Temptations Get Ready - Temptations Stop! In The Name Of Love - Diana/Supremes Nowhere To Run - Martha & The Vandellas Seven Rooms Of Gloom - 4 Tops Pride & Joy - Marvin Gaye (I Know) I'm Losing You - Temptations Two Lovers - Mary Wells I'll Turn To Stone - 4 Tops Come See About Me - Diana/Supremes If I Were your Woman Gladys Knight & The Pips My World Is Empty Without You - Diana/Supremes The Tracks Of My Tears - The Miracles Can I Get A Witness - Marvin Gaye The Girls Alright With Me - Temptations Shoo Be Doo Be Doo Da Day - Stevie Wonder Reflections - Diana/Supremes What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted - Jimmy Ruffin Quicksand... - Martha & The Vandellas Reach Out...I'll Be There - 4 Tops You Beat Me To The Punch - Mary Wells The Bells - The Originals All in the Game - Four Tops My Baby - Temptations This Old Heart Of Mine - Isley Brothers My Whole World Ended (The Moment You Left) - David Ruffin It Takes Two - Marvin Gaye/Tammy Terrell To Busy Thinking About My Baby - Marvin Gaye When Your Young And In Love - Marvelettes I Were Your Woman - Gladys Knight & the Pips It's Growing - The Temptations I Can't Get Next To You - Temptations Heart Breaking Guy - Supremes Mostly bubblegum and dross. Some great lines on paper but not great songs by my standards. You are allowed to disagree (how big of me) but that's what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bilbo230763' post='650162' date='Nov 9 2009, 10:01 PM']You are allowed to disagree (how big of me) but that's what I think.[/quote] No point in disagreeing, Bilbo. You're entitled to your opinion. Thanks for taking so much time and trouble to list stuff you don't like. Edited November 9, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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