dave_bass5 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 [quote name='stingrayfan' post='599930' date='Sep 16 2009, 09:59 AM']Just to stoke the fire some more.... How many of us have bought an expensive 'brand' bass despite the fact that it didn't feel that nice and was a bit heavy to gig with? I know I have.[/quote] Funny enough the only gigging bass ive brought that i couldn't get on with was also the cheapest, a Fender 50s classic. Its not a rubbish bass but i just couldn't play the neck properly. Saying that my latest bass, the DJ5 has a tone im not really liking either but im coming round to it and its really because ive gone from a P to a Jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 [quote name='Doddy' post='599583' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:41 PM']To Ou7shined....So when you bought a new 'better' instrument,you became more inspired to improve your technique,so you have to practice to improve. The instrument gave you the inspiration to improve,which i said can happen in an earlier post.[/quote] Actually you claimed to disagree with me and were rude about my "warped view towards music" but I'm glad you're coming around. And in all fairness the point I was making wasn't only that it inspired me to get better but that it was absoulutely necessary to improve my technique because the better bass revealed (aurally) my incompetency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 [quote name='GremlinAndy' post='599825' date='Sep 16 2009, 02:48 AM']Goddamnit. No-one is disputing that. but would he sound *equally* good on a 40 quid bass with bad intonation, and warped neck, crappy pots and crackly socket?[/quote] Because of course, this thread is about using 'bad' cheap basses..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 [quote name='GremlinAndy' post='599825' date='Sep 16 2009, 02:48 AM']Goddamnit. No-one is disputing that. but would he sound *equally* good on a 40 quid bass with bad intonation, and warped neck, crappy pots and crackly socket? and here is where I repeat *undisputedly* ...no. Therefore he WOULD be better served by a better instrument. My argument holds up even when you try to use a silly example involving such a remarkable and unrepresentative (of the readers in this thread) player. (no offence to any players who reckon they *are* at Jacos level) Nobody said "boutique", they said expensive (re-read the title.) And Jacos bass would have been expensive in it's day (and more so now obviously) (Apologies for using an equally unrepresentative point there with the £40 bass, but expensive is just 'relative'. )[/quote] First of all, I used the word 'boutique' to represent a higher price level of instrument-you are just being pedantic over that one. You also keep saying that it is 'undisputedly'....it clearly is not. In my first post I said "Many people seem to have an added 'confidence' when playing a more expensive bass-the Bass gives them the inspiration to play." (This was on the first page-so I have no need to re-read the title) My argument then came at the suggestion that a better bass forces you to improve-which I disagree with. You can become inspired to play it,but the bass will not force you to improve by itself. I will continue to say that a good player will sound good on any instrument-you've heard the Will Lee story right? The player is more important than the Bass. I've really hit a nerve with you haven't I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 [quote name='Doddy' post='600095' date='Sep 16 2009, 12:45 PM']....My argument then came at the suggestion that a better bass forces you to improve-which I disagree with. You can become inspired to play it,but the bass will not force you to improve by itself. I will continue to say that a good player will sound good on any instrument-you've heard the Will Lee story right? The player is more important than the Bass.. I've really hit a nerve with you haven't I?[/quote] True (I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this) but will sloppy Joe sound good on all levels of instrument? Or (at the risk of repeating myself) would the faithful sound of a better bass open up to the ear nuances (read mistakes or annoyances) that a lesser quality bass hasn't the ability to produce? I know that I am very aware of these mistakes or annoyances in my own playing and without the bonus of a mentor or tutor to point them out to me I have to rely on what I hear to aid my advancement to the level of perfection that it is my personal choice to want to attain one day... but probably never will. How can you improve when you can't hear what it is that needs to be worked upon? I feel I've now overstated the difference between the inspiration to and the necessity to improve. No nerve has been touched mate it just appears that you keep missing the intent of what I said. No biggy like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 To me that says more about you.....you heard a difference and felt the need to improve your playing. You could have carried on playing as you were,but buying a new instrument inspired you to get better.It didn't 'force' you. Which is what I mentioned in my first post. I also reckon that when you play your older instrument now,you play that better now than you did before,because of your improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Ha ha ok. Could we agree that a better bass is an "enabler" to an improved technique then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan_da_man Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I think to play a "boutique/custom" bass you need to have earnt the right first. And by that I mean got to a good level of playing. I think I have got to a good level of playing but I still would be able to do what I do on a cheaper bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddy Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 OK,, On a different slant,, the obvious reason for having good gear THE TAX RETURN,,,,,,, I have some great mid range gear and love it,,,,, but new gear or pay tax,, no contest.... Having boutique gear which never leaves the house,,, now thats a topic for a thread!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 i sold my stingray 5 with status neck purely because it was ridiculous to have a £1k bass for the bedroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan_da_man Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Then there are those bands who have "all the gear and no idea" - I've seen too many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardMarlowe Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 [quote name='Stan_da_man' post='600317' date='Sep 16 2009, 03:16 PM']I think to play a "boutique/custom" bass you need to have earnt the right first. And by that I mean got to a good level of playing. I think I have got to a good level of playing but I still would be able to do what I do on a cheaper bass.[/quote] Really, is that notion still out there? To be honest, in my experience - though I stress I don't know you and so don't know whether you fall into this category or not - most of the folks I've ever encountered who really felt you had to [i]earn[/i] a better bass were more often than not simply bitter that there were folks out there who could afford better stuff than them, and who [i]in their opinion[/i] were inferior musicians who didn't "deserve" better. It's the same argument I see all the time with guitar players and signature models - "X is crap and doesn't deserve to have a signature model, [i]I'm[/i] a much better player than they ever will be" blah blah blah..... I'm not a one for spending huge amounts of money on an instrument unless I feel it has something worth the extra cash to me (this will not include brand name, marketing crap about "heritage" and "tradition" etc). If I can afford it and its what I want, I don't much care whether my pitiful abilities can't justify it in the eyes of other players. Course, there's another part of me that would be highly amused to buy an expensive boutique bass purely for playing Dee Dee Ramones lines on specifically because it would piss off the sort of people who like to debate whether I would "deserve" the instrument or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 [quote name='Stan_da_man' post='600317' date='Sep 16 2009, 03:16 PM']I think to play a "boutique/custom" bass [b]you need to have earnt the right first[/b]. And by that I mean got to a good level of playing. I think I have got to a good level of playing but I still would be able to do what I do on a cheaper bass.[/quote] And who is going to decide who gets a licence to buy - will they have to earn that right too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 MB1. Buy what you like!...what you can afford!...and dont buy on finance! The reasuringly Expensive bass wont depreciate as much on the second hand Market as a cheap bass and you should get a better return if you decide to sell ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='600563' date='Sep 16 2009, 06:42 PM']And who is going to decide who gets a licence to buy - will they have to earn that right too?[/quote] Would you have to wear a hi-viz jacket at gigs and follow the instructor until you pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan_da_man Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Why do people bite so quickly round here?! I could buy a boutique bass and I could afford one right now if I wanted but I don't buy one - why? Because I can get a nice tone on something that's cheaper, just as comfortable and probably nicer to play. And I can put it in a Transit and not worry about "my baby"... Yeah, a lot of people who are given boutique instruments might not deserve it but then again, I've always judged someone on their playing and not their gear. Seems some people do the opposite to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-sad Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 This is why : [url="http://img12.imageshack.us/i/basses16871.jpg/"][IMG=http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1355/basses16871.jpg][/IMG][/url] and believe me the B string is tight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Following on from my previous analogy: You meet the partner of your dreams and stay with them from teens to old age. You are happy as Larry and never look at anyone else. Others settle with their partner but look at others. However, they don't have the guts to stray. Then there are those that can't help but look and can't remain faithful. They want to sh@g as many other people as possible. Some of these will only go for really attractive people, while some will go for anything that moves. The sexual techniques they employ are the same, but they might find that some of the partners are more adventurous, and therefore more enjoyable. After playing the field, most of these people usually end up back with their partners. And so to basses: you meet the love of your life and stay faithful: it feels comfortable and you feel no need to use anything else. You love your favourite bass but you feel the urge to look at others. I wonder how that would play and sound? You forget about your regular bass, play the field, and you try anything you can get your hands on, cheap or expensive, just to see if the experience is different. It usually is initially, but you soon tire of it and long for your favourite bass again. You end up going back to your long term one. We've all done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Shall I get me coat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 This a great thread, thanks to the OP for starting it. I think most of the points made are valid with good reason, & it just shows how different we all are - interesting. Myself back years ago when I thought I was going to be a rockstar in various indie bands that were going to 'make it' that never did, I went through a host of basses (Stingray,Fenders,Gibsons,Rickenbacker,Wal, etc...). All top notch instruments (IMO), that I economised & sometimes literally starved to afford. Loved all of them - wish I stil had some of them. Now I'm fortunate to have a fairly decent job & I guess being able to comfortably afford something boutique; it's ironic for me, that I'm finding I'm getting as much from a £90 Ibanez Blazer & a more pricey £200 Tokai. They're not hindering my playing or technique - I feel I'm improving all the time as long as I keep up my practice. Can't comment on cheap Westfields,Staggs etc, never tried them - I'm sure they're good for the money, but I don't think an inexpensive bass necessarily has to equal rubbish, low quality or unplayable. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 [quote name='Stan_da_man' post='600608' date='Sep 16 2009, 07:10 PM']Why do people bite so quickly round here?![/quote] Perhaps they were taking the bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 One point that has been missed is the famous marketing dilemma that is the price / perceived quality equation that applies to most things in life. [quote]Perceived quality is not equivalent to objective quality; it cannot be measured in terms of technical superiority or adherence to physical standards. Perceived quality is an abstract evaluation or judgment of a product that is formed from intrinsic attributes of the product (e.g., physical characteristics) and extrinsic attributes that are not part of the actual physical product (e.g., price, brand name, packaging).[/quote] Can be read in full [url="http://www.msi.org/publications/publication.cfm?pub=196"]Here[/url] its certainly interesting and an ongoing problem for anyone who produces basses.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombywoof Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='600647' date='Sep 16 2009, 07:54 PM']Shall I get me coat?[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='600646' date='Sep 16 2009, 07:52 PM']Following on from my previous analogy: You meet the partner of your dreams and stay with them from teens to old age. You are happy as Larry and never look at anyone else. Others settle with their partner but look at others. However, they don't have the guts to stray. Then there are those that can't help but look and can't remain faithful. They want to sh@g as many other people as possible. Some of these will only go for really attractive people, while some will go for anything that moves. The sexual techniques they employ are the same, but they might find that some of the partners are more adventurous, and therefore more enjoyable. After playing the field, most of these people usually end up back with their partners. And so to basses: you meet the love of your life and stay faithful: it feels comfortable and you feel no need to use anything else. You love your favourite bass but you feel the urge to look at others. I wonder how that would play and sound? You forget about your regular bass, play the field, and you try anything you can get your hands on, cheap or expensive, just to see if the experience is different. It usually is initially, but you soon tire of it and long for your favourite bass again. You end up going back to your long term one. We've all done it.[/quote] +1 And generally the more you pay for a hooker....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I just bought a Squier Classic Vibe 50's Precision. See? It's not all boutique stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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