Tee Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Our (my) band is defintely a sum of its parts. It would not be the same with an imposter temporarily filling in, in any of our roles. If one person can't make a gig, we don't play it. So i vote for "a bit peeved." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Interesting post this. I voted wish them well. No offence but I feel there's a little bit of dented pride in there somewhere. I hear what you're saying about loyalty but it's not as if they're taking a gig and not telling you. I know "telling" is different from "asking" but if I were in your position (and have been) I would call the dep and ask if he wanted a hand learning the numbers as there exists the possibility that he's not as good as you and that could mean a potentially bum gig that would harm the band's reputation which then reflects on you indirectly. It also puts you in a good light with others. I've depped loads of gigs and had my bands use a dep on just as many occaisions due to having some other commitment on a particular night. Looking to join any of those bands has never been on my agenda and if a band I play in wanted to permanently replace me with a dep they'd used. it's time to move on anyway. Don't worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Clarky' post='556432' date='Jul 30 2009, 08:36 PM']I am not worried about being replaced,[i] its just that I feel that a band should stand or fall together with the emphasis on together I spend countless hours practising, rehearsing, sorting out gigs, travelling to/from gigs etc for this band and I don't like to be made to feel dispensable - I guess it all comes down to whether you view the band as a unit or as a collective[/i][/quote] Why the hell you don't just tell them that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Faithless' post='556741' date='Jul 31 2009, 01:39 AM']Why the hell you don't just tell them that? [/quote] Because the guitarist/vocalist would resent it massively (Birmingham is his home City) and there is a large chance that it would cause lingering bad feeling on his part (like most guitarist/frontmen he is quite egotistical and a bad listener, although he is very talented). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateybass Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 It's only a problem if you haven't confidence in your relationship or value within the band. I dep quite a lot and though it's hard work to learn a completely new set for maybe one gig, I take the opportunity as a chance to network with new musicians. I never see it as an opportunity to join a new band. If my own band takes a gig that I can't do, I will generally try to find a dep for them myself from a small pool of bass players that I know and can rely on to do the job well. I feel it's more important to ensure that my band doesn't lose any hard-earned reputation from having a bad dep and a bad gig. Depping is part of the business and deps don't want a rep for trying to muscle in or they tend not to get asked again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Bottom line may well if the gig is a very good payer, the dep would be keen to do more.... but deps and originals bands don't normally go together that easily...too much hassle to learn the set and not enough money typically.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Clarky' post='556509' date='Jul 30 2009, 07:59 PM']In short, if I can't do the gig then I think they should have said 'no' just like we do when either of them can't make a gig.[/quote] This is what would make the situation unacceptable for me. They have already set a precedent for the situation; if the band has cancelled gigs before when other members couldn't make the date then why aren't they doing it this time? I'd be pissed off to the point of quitting (but that's just me; I never really got to grips with "band mentality"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Mine did it last weekend, no problem. I rang each of them (including the dep) and wished them well. That's how I voted. I'm all for 'whatever's good for the band' and ultimately, gigging is good for the band, so no worries. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorick Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Clarky' post='556408' date='Jul 30 2009, 06:07 PM']Well, the dep lives in Birmingham and we are a London band, so its definitely not a back door way to getting a mate into the band. Thats a saving grace at least PS, note childish edit to my signature [/quote] It's not me.... honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I think it's down to context. If it's a 'working' band with a band leader, depping is fairy nuff. If it's a BAND in the old-school three-against-the-world sense... they should have asked you first. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 BTW, its a non-paying gig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='556789' date='Jul 31 2009, 08:37 AM']I think it's down to context. If it's a 'working' band with a band leader, depping is fairy nuff. If it's a BAND in the old-school three-against-the-world sense... they should have asked you first. IMO.[/quote] +1. I can understand the guitard wanting to do the big home town gig but should defo have discussed it first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Clarky' post='556793' date='Jul 31 2009, 08:44 AM']BTW, its a non-paying gig[/quote] but with non finacial benefits to the band overall, by the sound of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Clarky' post='556793' date='Jul 31 2009, 08:44 AM']BTW, its a non-paying gig[/quote] OK... so the only other reason for pressing ahead with it in these circumstances would be that the exposure is too good an opportunity to miss. Is that that case..? Edited to add '..or are contractually obliged.'..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 It would never happen in my band. We're three mates who play songs together. It would be possible to train someone up to replace one or another of us, but we'd never do it. We've turned down great gigs because one of us has been away. It just wouldn't be right, and if they did a gig without me i'd be very offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 If its a non-payer...there is something else there... maybe it is a great gig for the band...but I get the feeling it is a 3-peice, so this is sounding odder.. I can understand why you are upset about this... When the gig is over, you might want to have a chat about all this... Of course, if the gig goes not so well...then you might feel a bit more secure... Deps by their nature don't often do non-paying gigs.. IME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Hi Clarky, This would be a sensitive subject with me and I agree with you. If it were me I'd have it out with them, air my grievance and if there's no satisfactory explanation/conclusion/outcome then I'd walk plain and simple. Respectfully, JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Clarky' post='556509' date='Jul 30 2009, 07:59 PM']In short, if I can't do the gig then I think they should have said 'no' just like we do when either of them can't make a gig. BTW, the Brum promoter knows he mucked up the date as I spoke to him after he changed it and I told him I couldn't do that day, so it would have been no surprise to him - and he couldn't feel aggrieved - if the others had simply cancelled[/quote] Just wondering about the exact situation over other gigs - I may be wrong but it seems you turn down gigs if other members are unavailable. In this case, you hadn't turned the gig down because you were all available on the original date, so you'd accepted the gig and would have had to cancel the rescheduled gig rather than turning it down. Or have you actually cancelled other gigs because one of the other members was unavailable? I'd wish them well, I wouldn't mind having a bassist to dep for me very occasionally when I get schedule collisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EskimoBassist Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I see your position and I empathise with you greatly. Although I have never been temporarily replaced, the band have gigged without me, playing acoustically. Needless to say, they openly admitted it felt empty without me there. Perhaps more importantly though, I have seen this from the other side of the coin. This evening, infact, we are playing at The Duchess in York, which is quite possibly the largest indoor gig we have ever been booked for, if you've ever been there you'll know it's a great venue, great atmosphere and some truly great bands have already taken to its' stage. We were booked for this gig MONTHS ago and in truth all our efforts have been leading up to this evening. BIG PROBLEM. It becomes clear a few weeks ago that our drummer will not be able to make the slot, instead he is preoccupied in London, working at a Drumming Festival, in view to securing work playing next year, as unlike myself and the guitarist, he is not going to university. Although a devastating blow, as he is a GREAT drummer and indeed an equally integral part of the band, we WOULD NOT AND COULD NOT cancel the gig. Ultimately, the last week has been spent rehersing every day with a replacement and good friend of the band, although it took us three weeks (for which the main part I spent abroad anyway) to find a suitable replacement, exhausting lists of session drummers. Although it will be strange to be onstage without our drummer (ala special relationship us drummers and bassists have ) we always knew we would be playing. I even dislocated my shoulder three times last Friday, which has recovered in record time, might I add, through the rehabilitation of FURIOUS BASS PLAYING. I don't think anything can stop us!!! Our drummer recognised it was his responsibilty to do everything to make this gig go ahead without him, as he was indeed creating the problem. He taught our dep his parts, ran them with him and is also footing the bill for Mr.Replacement's services. At the end of the day, no matter how good our replacement may be, we will never replace our drummer with him. And I think you should have the same confidence. It's just one gig! I don't blame you for being a little peeved, you should discuss EVERYTHING at length in a band. I mean you're all friends first right?! At the end of the day though, sometimes you've got to put "The Band" first and if that means getting someone else to cover your back once in a while when you can't be there... then so be it. Piece of advice for the future: Don't want to be replaced? BUY LOTS OF EFFECTS PEDALS THAT ARE INTEGRAL TO YOUR BAND'S SOUND, the weirder, more boutique and rarer the better. Pretty impossible to replace a player like that at short notice, for someone else to get all the pedals and learn all the sounds!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='tauzero' post='556872' date='Jul 31 2009, 10:15 AM']Just wondering about the exact situation over other gigs - I may be wrong but it seems you turn down gigs if other members are unavailable. In this case, you hadn't turned the gig down because you were all available on the original date, so you'd accepted the gig and would have had to cancel the rescheduled gig rather than turning it down.[/quote] Exactly right. We had acccepted a date which was then unilaterally changed by the promoter without asking us. I could not make the new date. This situation has not happened before. We have turned down quite a few gigs because one of the other guys (usually the drummer) is unavailable, including a high profile one with UK Subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Clarky' post='556373' date='Jul 30 2009, 05:35 PM']My band booked a gig in Birmingham that was then moved a week by the promoter without checking with us - I cannot do the new date (next Saturday). Rather than cancelling the other guys have arranged for a dep bass player and sent him our CD. Not sure what to think about this. While I want our band's reputation to flourish, two things strike me: 1. I am a bit p*ssed that they are going ahead with this as I consider myself an integral part of the band (we are only a trio and I could never imagine the singer/guitarist agreeing for the band to gig without HIM); 2. they may realise, if the stand-in is any good, that I am not really a particularly good bass player! How would you feel?[/quote] I would feel peeved but would also realise its my fault if i cant make it. As my bands are doing paid functions i try and make them all but as i have a full time job i can understand its not fair to deprive them of earning so im happy for them to use a dep. It keeps everyone happy. Its not a good feeling to find out your not indispensable but i think its the right thing to do. I also dep and while i get good regular gigs ive never been asked to join these other bands permanently, deps are just there for the one off gigs others cant make most of the time. I say wish them luck, try and get involved with helping the other guy out. Not too much though ;-) I think your situation is a bit different though but i think if its a one off its nothing to worry about. Edited July 31, 2009 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='tauzero' post='556872' date='Jul 31 2009, 10:15 AM']I'd wish them well, I wouldn't mind having a bassist to dep for me very occasionally when I get schedule collisions.[/quote] pay my fee and travel and I'll be there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Clarky' post='556976' date='Jul 31 2009, 11:30 AM']Exactly right. We had acccepted a date which was then unilaterally changed by the promoter without asking us. I could not make the new date. This situation has not happened before. We have turned down quite a few gigs because one of the other guys (usually the drummer) is unavailable, including a high profile one with UK Subs.[/quote] Ah well then the situation is not the same and your precedent does not stand. Had you said no to the orginal date I suspect the band woud have said no to the date, not "yes and we'll get a dep for Clarky" .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) I am a big child and I'll throw my toys out of the pram if I want to Mind you, judging by the poll I am not alone in feeling a touch miffed about such a situation; its roughly 50:50 Edited July 31, 2009 by Clarky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Clarky' post='556373' date='Jul 30 2009, 05:35 PM']My band booked a gig in Birmingham that was then moved a week by the promoter without checking with us - I cannot do the new date (next Saturday). Rather than cancelling the other guys have arranged for a dep bass player and sent him our CD. Not sure what to think about this. While I want our band's reputation to flourish, two things strike me: 1. I am a bit p*ssed that they are going ahead with this as I consider myself an integral part of the band (we are only a trio and I could never imagine the singer/guitarist agreeing for the band to gig without HIM); 2. they may realise, if the stand-in is any good, that I am not really a particularly good bass player! How would you feel?[/quote] no one can replace you even if they play exactly right we are each a person be positive about it so that the vibes are good and the gig goes well...its the band name that gets the kudos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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