Barking Spiders Posted October 30, 2023 Author Share Posted October 30, 2023 I've pretty much got to a point where any progress I make is tinily incremental. Over the years my target has been to nail such and such basslines. After 35 years I think I've now exhausted my list of 'musts' to get off pat. Not sure where to go from here now 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said: I've pretty much got to a point where any progress I make is tinily incremental. Over the years my target has been to nail such and such basslines. After 35 years I think I've now exhausted my list of 'musts' to get off pat. Not sure where to go from here now Enjoy the view from the lofty plateau you have built for yourself? (genuine, not meant as sarcasm). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 4 hours ago, Dad3353 said: it's not a permanent upward curve, and at what age does it start to dip depends on many factors. We can maybe return to the issue in three or four decade's time, and see who has found a difference in their performance, and why Indeed. It comes to a point at which the work you're putting in is to try and limit the dip rather than create an improvement. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, TimR said: Indeed. It comes to a point at which the work you're putting in is to try and limit the dip rather than create an improvement. ... in the full and certain knowledge that you're on a hiding to nothing. ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicbassman Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, TimR said: we often resign ourselves to playing the best that we can, but don't appreciate how a little extra, done frequently will lead to big improvements over time. Absolutely agree with this. There's always so much to learn, and so many ideas to try. I usually try and play for about an hour a day, and for example my current 'thing' is playing along to, and creating fresh basslines for house music from the noughties onwards, using continuous mixtapes from YouTube. (Maybe try Book Club Radio and a DJ called Tinzo if you're curious) I've come up with a lot of bass lines and fresh rhythm patterns from this, and I deliberately try and make it continuously challenging so it's a bit of a workout. More fun than daytime TV or weeding the garden 🙂👍 Edited October 30, 2023 by musicbassman 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 On 25/10/2023 at 22:50, TimR said: Guitarist's view of what makes a good bass player - plays the roots. Drummer's view of what makes a good bass player - locks in with the drums. Singer's view of what makes a good bass player - plays the right notes. Bass player's view of what makes a good bass player - owns a van, PA, lights, organises gigs and rehearsals, breaks up fights, designs websites and prints setlists... Well that last paragraph sums me up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 18 hours ago, Dad3353 said: relax the tensions accumulated. Will any of this improve over the next decade or so..? Every chance, but only if you go to an Alexander Technique teacher to unleash your inner non tensioned drummer self. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 4 hours ago, Downunderwonder said: Every chance, but only if you go to an Alexander Technique teacher to unleash your inner non tensioned drummer self. Probably, but, you know, 'Old dog, new tricks' and all that. Thanks for the thought, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggering on Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 5 hours ago, Downunderwonder said: Every chance, but only if you go to an Alexander Technique teacher to unleash your inner non tensioned drummer self. Strange that you should mention the Alexander Technique. A couple of months ago I downloaded a book about the Alexander Technique and playing the DB and I tried a few of the exercises and it has made a huge improvement in my playing. I finally started lessons with the bow a year ago and when I mentioned Alexander Technique to my teacher a few weeks ago he broke out into a big smile and said he had taken two Alexander courses while studying at a prestigious university and I have since found that most music schools offer Alexander courses and at some it is not an option. He is not an Alexander Technique instructor but he has given me some tips, unfortunately the nearest instructor is over three hours from where I live but I have found some other bass related Alexander material and am trying to learn more. It has truly made a difference in the way I play DB and I use it practicing, playing in a bluegrass band and a swing band and when I am playing in a small orchestra, it can be applied to any type of music. I wonder who else on here has worked with the Alexander technique, let's hear your stories. Not long after I started with Alexander a friend who has heard me play many times was visiting for a couple of days. She didn't know that I had been working on this new technique but after a few minutes of hearing me practice with the bow she looked up from her book and said "I hear the bass, not you" and I was astounded, it did make difference for me. Re "old dog, new tricks", I am 77 and have been playing guitar, bass and banjo for about 60 years, 'nuff said.😊 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songofthewind Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Great to see Alexander Technique get some kudos on here. I trained as a teacher of AT and practised for a number of years before training to be a psychotherapist. Both kinds of work are closely related, in my view. I taught many classical and jazz musicians in Glasgow and Edinburgh, which was very satisfying work. I also had stints as a dep AT teacher at Wells Cathedral School and St Mary's in Edinburgh. I co-pioneered AT in Japan, with a colleague, back in 1986. I have left it behind me now, but I think the effect on my playing and musicianship, as well as my attitude to music, is incalculable. If anyone is struggling with playing or performance issues, I heartily recommend AT to them! If anyone on here wants to talk more about this I am very happy to engage. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Staggering on said: ...Re "old dog, new tricks", I am 77 and have been playing guitar, bass and banjo for about 60 years, 'nuff said.😊 Gone 73 here; your post is inspiring enough for me to look a bit deeper into all of this. I'm not (and have never been...) a paragon of fitness (no breath, no stamina, weak kidneys etc...), and a couple of decades ago I had a light yoga regime, but even that became too much, so, with regret, I stopped. If this turns out to be not too strenuous, and brings any benefit at all, I'll be well pleased. Thanks to all for the suggestion and experiences. Hmm... Let the Googling commence..! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggering on Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Dad3353 said: Gone 73 here; your post is inspiring enough for me to look a bit deeper into all of this. I'm not (and have never been...) a paragon of fitness (no breath, no stamina, weak kidneys etc...), and a couple of decades ago I had a light yoga regime, but even that became too much, so, with regret, I stopped. If this turns out to be not too strenuous, and brings any benefit at all, I'll be well pleased. Thanks to all for the suggestion and experiences. Hmm... Let the Googling commence..! Not strenuous at all, that's the whole idea behind the Alexander Technique from what I have learned so far, remember I'm just getting into this. It makes what you do easier, less stressful and allows you to use your body more efficiently...so far it's working for me and has changed my whole approach to playing double bass.👍 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songofthewind Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 With the Alexander Technique, less is more! Not strenuous, not about fitness, but about paying attention to detail of movement. Among other things. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 It's all the other stuff you are doing that is unnecessary for angular control and acceleration of the stick that is tuckering you out. A lot of that is down to timing so you have to learn timing and groove without the extraneous motions and tensions. The stick still has to arrive at precisely the right time angle and speed. Every time. Neat trick! You are in for a real joyous discovery. I don't think you can get it from a book or video though. The teacher guides you in inhibiting wasteful action that is subconscious so you learn to recognize the feeling of doing it right instead. One of the first lessons they will literally guide you in getting up out of a chair after doing some teaching motions that rewire your brain. Note not help but guide. You will be blown away how well your leg muscles can actually perform when given a chance because they are not tangled up in stabilizing your overactive core. Sitting, standing. No intermediate wrestling match with yourself. The teacher shows you how to apply that to your drumming. You know how you can recognize drummers blind. Someone is going to come into the room and be surprised to see you on the kit because it won't sound like the old wound up you. It will be the new fluid you. You are going to like it! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said: ...I don't think you can get it from a book or video though... Hmm... It seems that, in France, there are exactly six practitioners. The nearest is Paris, 300 kms away. Hmm... France practitioners, centred on our cottage... Edited October 31, 2023 by Dad3353 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 36 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: Hmm... It seems that, in France, there are exactly six practitioners. The nearest is Paris, 300 kms away. Hmm... France practitioners, centred on our cottage... I hear Bretagne is nice this time of year... Alexander holliday? With sessions over a few days you could get going with it. Take the train. Driving is a good way of undoing good work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggering on Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 35 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: Hmm... It seems that, in France, there are exactly six practitioners. The nearest is Paris, 300 kms away. Hmm... France practitioners, centred on our cottage... 36 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: Hmm... It seems that, in France, there are exactly six practitioners. The nearest is Paris, 300 kms away. Hmm... France practitioners, centred on our cottage... Same distance for me, closest place is Ottawa. Part of the problem is that the best way to learn it is a series of lessons in person, books and videos can help but the hands on evaluation and manipulation/adjustment by a teacher is almost a necessity. I may contact a teacher and see what kind of program I can set up but driving that distance in my part of Canada in the winter can be tricky, I will probably wait until spring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb625 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 50 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: Hmm... It seems that, in France, there are exactly six practitioners. The nearest is Paris, 300 kms away. Hmm... France practitioners, centred on our cottage... But it's really handy for the Kangaroo Gardens! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, Staggering on said: hands on evaluation and manipulation/adjustment by a teacher is almost a necessity. I Not almost. There is no way of DIY'ing what the teacher does. Interesting that what Dad does post gig out of necessity is a good Alexander exercise if done correctly. Lie flat with a thin book or two under your head and knees up. Everything must relax into the floor. Have someone take out one of the books as your neck relaxes. Just lie there and breathe. If your legs don't self stabilise over your hips you can do it with your belt around your knees so they can rest out against the belt That lets your hip muscles relax. Then the last book. After 15 mins roll over and stand up ( the Alexander way ). You will be about 3/4" taller. Few people naturally perch their head on top of their spine past childhood. They emulate adults cranking it forward and down. Some worse than others. Don't see too many musicians that are all that bad though. By typing this all I have rearranged myself to be 'more Alexander'. It is as much a state of being as anything else. I need to work on myself some more! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGBass Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 I've definetly become a worse player as I get older. Listening to recordings of original music I played on years ago, everything seems so complex when at the time I was learning as I went along. It would be fair to say I peaked early. Since converting to playing covers, I usually just learm the tunes well enough to get by because no one in the band is playing the cover note perfect. The songs are quite recognisable but for example my bass playing on "Won't Get Fooled Again" doesn't quite match what John Enwhistle does. Then again no one I've seen covering that tune plays it like he does 🙂 I do find it much easier nowadays to work out a key and transpose stuff if needed so some of my playing has improved over the years. I would say it was competent in certain parts but could always be improved upon in others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 I thought I was better than I actually was. I'm basically lazy and these days tend to learn stuff at the last minute. I think I'm an asset to a band but not particularly to the art of bass playing. Back in France, I was in a hugely popular band (departmentally speaking) where other bands even struggled to get gigs if up against us. I played with some great musicians there and was quite in demand however, there's always a possibility of " big fish in a small pond" syndrome which I think, led me to believe I was better than I actually was. I get the impression now, that my popularity was more down to stage confidence due to a huge amount of gig experience which rubs off on others and makes the show more successful, an ability to busk a lot of stuff, and a vocal ability, be it lead or BVs. I'm now recently back in a covers band here in in Norfolk and can probably name a dozen other local bassists who are far better than me despite my 40 odd years of playing bass.😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 I am legitimately mediocre. I would not be able to play in many bands playing covers, for example. I cannot slap at all. I can, however, play quite distinctive and atmospheric bass that works well with the right combination of one or two other instruments and vocals. I am certain that I would improve considerably if I devoted more time and effort to doing so. (And if my bass were not 3000 miles away.) Some of the music I like the most is by musicians who were technically limited but were forced to make the best of their limitations. On a good day, I am probably at that kind of level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 (edited) When I am not gigging, you will find me at The Legion on a Saturday watching other bands. The bassists are invariably more accomplished than me, but I often get cross because of fills. So many good, or at least very competent, bassists that seem to put fills in songs that really don't need them and in one case, the fill was actually too long and meant he was always late getting out of the chorus. Now, I get bored playing root and fifth occasionally, but does the song need a fill? Does it fit? I am not saying that I always get it right, but when I do, the drummer smiles. I have instant feedback. Now I would say I am a member of the Mediocre Bassist Club on Talk Crap (I can never remember the name of that site) and there is little chance of me leaving it due to an amazing leap in technique. However, I do try to get the bassics right. Edited November 2, 2023 by Chienmortbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said: So many good, or at least very competent, bassists that seem to put fills in songs that really don't need them The sign of a good bass player is being able to play those fills - but knowing not to play them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Just now, TimR said: The sign of a good bass player is being able to play those fills - but knowing not to play them. Got it in one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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