Lightweight amp advice please

[sarah thomas]

Well, I’d decided to bite the bullet and buy an AI doubleshot and that’s when I found out the sad news about Rick Jones. I have my fingers crossed for a secondhand double shot or upshot but as my creaking back can’t handle the ten2 anymore and my MarkBass 801 struggles against the horn section, I’m hoping that there might be something else out there that weighs around 15-20 lbs and delivers a clean sound. Maybe AER or Gallien Krueger? Any help gratefully received.

[Burns-bass]

I use a Trace Elliot Elf with a Barefaced  cabinet and an EBS pre amp. Plenty loud enough and weighs almost nothing. You could swap for another class D head (Aguilar, GK etc) and they weigh less than 5kg each.

 

 

[Hellzero]

Try the brand new GR Bass AeroTech Full Carbon dedicated Combo, not cheap for sure, but lightweight at 8.8 kilos (hard to find lighter and so powerful).

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/gr_bass_at_cube_acoustic.htm

 

There's also the Acus For Bass model, but it will be heavier at 13 kilos and a little cheaper.

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/acus_one_for_bass_wood.htm

 

And there's the Schertler Unico X at 16.8 kilos, but you'll have to rob the bank.

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/schertler_unico_x.htm

 

The AER BassCube will be allmost twice this weight, at close to 30 kilos.

 

The good old Gallien Krueger is a bit out of date even if it sounds good and the old ones are not that reliable.

 

[NickA]

Someone at the last bass bash had a GR cab.  Unbelievably light for the size of it.  Couple to a little class D amp and it might be very light and pretty good -- though the Elf, Gnome etc are all a bit on the under powerful side at an optimistic 200W into 4Ohm.

 

I've a 150W PJB flightcase which is OK for rehearsals and a Jazz trio, but add an electric guitar and an enthusiastic keyboard player and it's not quite loud enough.

 

Depends who you play with I guess.

[Burns-bass]

3 hours ago, NickA said:

Someone at the last bass bash had a GR cab.  Unbelievably light for the size of it.  Couple to a little class D amp and it might be very light and pretty good -- though the Elf, Gnome etc are all a bit on the under powerful side at an optimistic 200W into 4Ohm.

 

I've a 150W PJB flightcase which is OK for rehearsals and a Jazz trio, but add an electric guitar and an enthusiastic keyboard player and it's not quite loud enough.

 

Depends who you play with I guess.

I’ve said it up there but Barefaced cabs are loud, light, and well voiced for a competitive price.

[Happy Jack]

On 24/06/2023 at 09:20, sarah thomas said:

Well, I’d decided to bite the bullet and buy an AI doubleshot and that’s when I found out the sad news about Rick Jones. I have my fingers crossed for a secondhand double shot or upshot but as my creaking back can’t handle the ten2 anymore and my MarkBass 801 struggles against the horn section, I’m hoping that there might be something else out there that weighs around 15-20 lbs and delivers a clean sound. Maybe AER or Gallien Krueger? Any help gratefully received.

 

I'm guessing you're talking about a combo, Sarah? For lighter weight and more flexibility I would always recommend the separate head + cab route.

 

There are now some staggeringly good lightweight 1x10 bass cabs out there. Like everyone else on Basschat I'm a big fan of the Barefaced One10 but I ended up replacing mine with https://www.gak.co.uk/en/trace-elliot-elf-1x10-cab/909654?gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjwy9-kBhCHARIsAHpBjHi2pxOa039IGjfxLQUL7p3flP41tD2B-L9K1R8gqvQYuzgAcGytWe0aAh_1EALw_wcB

 

Incredibly light, incredibly powerful, very well made. I pair mine with a Trace Elf head but that wouldn't really tick your 'clean sound' box so well. An MB200 or even an MB500 would do that for you, though.

 

The AI Double Shot is an interesting preference ... what would you be playing through it, and at what sort of gigs?

 

[sarah thomas]

I can see I’ve left lots of information out which would help people to help me. So sorry!  I play a Paul Bryant Soloist, currently through a MarkBass 801 combo but previously through an Acoustic Image Ten 2 or the Contra extension speaker. I’m a jazzer, sometimes with a trio and sometimes with a lot of horns. I struggle to cut through the horns. I’m an amateur player, classes, courses, jazz jams and playing with friends at each others houses. Occasional gigs, usually for charity, often in a church, sometimes outside.

 

I thought if I had a double shot or upshot from Acoustic Image then I could use the same head/amp from the Ten 2 with the new speaker/cabinet. You can see I’m not at ease with the terminology! If I got the combo double shot, then I could sell the Ten 2 and Contra with the head. I think that would be more attractive to buyers. So yes, I guess ideally I’d like a combo but that’s partly because of my lack of experience and confidence when it comes to pairing cabs and heads. I honestly thought the Ten 2 would last me forever but it’s too  much to carry these days.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

 

[Happy Jack]

One of the more surprising things that I've learned over my own DB journey is that very expensive, specialist DB amps make far less difference than you'd expect. Yes you can deffo hear the difference yourself, possibly one or two of your bandmates might hear some difference (though they probably won't), and the audience won't give a monkey's ... they're listening with their eyes, "Oooh look, she's playing a double bass, she must be good!".

 

As soon as you get up to any size of gig at all, you'll expect to have PA support and your backline will be essentially there for on-stage monitoring; at that point your >£1000 dedicated DB rig becomes almost irrelevent, except it will make you feel better and perhaps therefore play better.

 

If you're on a tight budget then I would honestly advise going to the Basschat marketplace and buying pretty much any really lightweight head (Trace Elf, Warwick Gnome, MB200, etc etc etc) and pairing that with pretty much any really lightweight 1x10 cab. If you're struggling to keep up with the horns then you just need to crank it up a bit; if that leads to feedback then a lightweight cab with a 'top hat' fitting so you can put it on a speaker pole at head height will usually deal with that very effectively - what you don't want is your backline pointing anywhere near the body of your DB. I always use a Crazy 8 for DB gigs - not cheap but really very effective for my purposes.

 

I've had plenty of AI kit and I love it to bits, still have a really nice, expensive head somewhere, but I haven't used it for several years.

 

 

[Burns-bass]

I echo what Jack says. I’d say that you can invest in a high quality acoustic pre-amp like the Stanley Clarke one from EBS. It’s reassuringly well built and simple to use (if you read the instructions, which I didn’t at the start!)

 

I honestly think a little Elf head and combo would be ideal.

 

I can speak with some confidence as I also play a Bryant bass (as well as the aluminium one above), and it has been loud enough for pub gigs with lots of players.

 

Assuming you’re nowhere near Bristol, but if you are, I’d happily show you what I use.

[guyl]

As above - separating amplification from speaker is the “weigh” forwards! 
 

I’d also suggest that if you are going very lightweight, you could always take a second cab if you know in advance those pesky horns are around …

[Happy Jack]

21 minutes ago, guyl said:

 

I’d also suggest that if you are going very lightweight, you could always take a second cab if you know in advance those pesky horns are around …

 

A very good point ... a pair of 1x10 cabs that can be daisy-chained when you need the extra oomph is a near-ideal solution. The second cab can live in the boot of your car and only brought into the venue if you find you need it.

 

As it happens, for electric bass gigs rather than two identical cabs I take one Trace Elliot ELF 110 and one Trace Elliot ELF 2x8, which offers three different solutions from two uber-light cabs.

 

[JoeEvans]

I've recently - finally - got the double bass sound of my dreams using a Prodipe BL21 mic into an Art Tube preamp then into a Turbosound iP300 active PA speaker. My bass but louder and a bit smoother and sexier. 

I'll be advertising my Elf combo on here shortly, I'm only playing DB these days and it just didn't give me the sound I wanted for that.

Edit: I should add that the Turbosound ip300 is 600w and weighs 11.9 kg.

Edited June 26, 2023 by JoeEvans

[tauzero]

GR Bass AT500 (or 800) Cube. Under 10kg for a 500W combo (the 800 is still 500 but allows you to add a second cab if you want to cut the front row of the audience down).

[jrixn1]

Some good suggestions here.  I'll add into the mix the new Markbass MB58R Mini CMD 121 combos - there are two versions, the "P" and the "Pure", and they're around 10kg which is about 1.5kg heavier than the GR Bass combos mentioned - but about half the price.

 

If your Markbass 801 is almost loud enough, it can take an extension cab.  I don't think Markbass make a matching 8" cab so I'm not sure what the best options is - perhaps a Barefaced One10 (7kg) although it's hard to predict what the results will be when you mix and match cabs like this.

 

Or you can get a second 801 and run them next to each other (you'll need some sort of pedal to split the signal from your bass).  As you know they are only 6.5kg so that's the lightest option and possibly the cheapest too.

 

Finally when you say you are struggling against the horns, is that for your own monitoring or do you mean the audience/band needs the bass to be louder?  If it's just your own monitoring, one thing I've done with a big band is to keep using my smaller amplification on stage and in additional use earphone monitoring to give myself a boost. 

[tinyd]

I've read a few good things about the TC BC208 cab paired with either the TC BAM200 or Warwick Gnome head. The cab weighs about 10KG and the heads are tiny so weight probably won't be an issue. I have an aging GK MB150 combo but I'm thinking of replacing it with this setup. 

[petebassist]

440 grams

Caline CP-60 Wine Cellar - Bass Drive & DI Effects Pedal, CP60

This is a budget version of similar DarkGlass amp pedals, I'm road-testing one for pub gigs, works a treat so far...

[Dan Dare]

I'll add PJB to the mix if you want clean.

[tinyd]

On 25/06/2023 at 15:25, JoeEvans said:

I've recently - finally - got the double bass sound of my dreams using a Prodipe BL21 mic into an Art Tube preamp then into a Turbosound iP300 active PA speaker. My bass but louder and a bit smoother and sexier. 

That's very interesting - do you have any thoughts about other, smaller, PA speakers? I know nothing about them but I don't think I'd need one as powerful as the Turbosound.....

[iaint]

I run a GB Streamliner 600 head through a Barefaced One10 and find it gives a great clean sound which can go quite loud. I also run an HPF as the sub bass from a DB can be overwhelming for a speaker. All very light as well

[JoeEvans]

4 hours ago, tinyd said:

That's very interesting - do you have any thoughts about other, smaller, PA speakers? I know nothing about them but I don't think I'd need one as powerful as the Turbosound.....

I haven't tried any others, I bought the Turbosound because I've been very impressed with the sound quality of the larger ip1000 PA system, which gives a gorgeous deep, rich bass.

The ip300 isn't very big physically and it's an easy one-handed carry. Bear in mind that it's stereo, so 300w per channel; unless you split your signal, that's all you'll get, and it doesn't seem massively loud for the wattage.

I had in mind to put a pickup output in one channel and the mic output in the other for a blended sound onstage with less feedback, then send just the mic side to the PA for front of house. I haven't experienced any feedback problems yet but that remains a useful possibility.

They give very wide dispersion so they feel a bit less loud standing straight in front of the speaker, but they fill the room a little better.

Edited June 28, 2023 by JoeEvans

[StingRayBoy42]

I get a good DB sound from my Markbass 802, I used to use a MB mini CMD 101, which was lovely for upright.

Both louder than the 801 and carryable with one hand.

Possibly not as super-duper clean as AER, but decent, affordable, pretty loud amps.

[Phil Starr]

If you are happy to go separates then it might be worth looking at the LFSys Monza a 10" cab by @stevie of this parish. It's a 10" version of the Monaco which we tried with DB at the South West bass bash. Both cabs have a tailored response called a shelving response in the bass region. This is used sometimes in the design of large touring PA systems. The bass starts to roll off early but very gradually and the overall bass response is extended. This is countered in any cab you put on the floor and bass lift by ground reinforcement is the cause of boominess in a lot of cabs. Of course it is also the cause of a lot of bass feedback in amplified double bass. In the midrange and all the way up the cab is dead flat. Stevie worked at KEF and for Yamaha so he knows a bit about crossovers again feedback issues are reduced because there are no nasty peaks and the sound we got at the bass bash was the sound of the strings. The Monaco was the best cab we tried with DB but as a 12 it's quite large, the smaller version might well be the perfect cab for DB. @TheRev was the person who tried the Monaco

 

It might be worth contacting @stevie he has a cab doing the rounds for people to try and if you look in the affiliates section he has a reduced price for BC members at the moment.

[TheRev]

For simple and light, i'd pair the AI head from the 2Ten combo with a Barefaced One10.     I've A/B'd the One10 against my MAS45 cab and prefered my MAS45 - it was just cleaner with better note envelope definition.  The LFSys Monaco I tried at the SW bash was pretty close to the sound of my MAS45 so if the LFSys Monza @Phil Starr mentioned above sounds anything like the Monaco, then I'd take that over the One10.

 

If you'd prefer to sell your 2Ten, then I agree you'll have a better chance of selling it with the AI amp installed.  Replacement wise, and in the absence of new/used AI or Euphonic Audio amps 😥, then I'd go with an Eich 500 (essentially a Tecamp Puma 500, which is great for DB) or a Genzler Magellan 350, depending on your power needs/bank balance.   I agree with Happy Jack that for DB, the amp is less critical than the cab, so a MarkBass Little Mark woudl do equally well (and be familiar as you've already got an 801).

 

I've just had a look at the GR stuff as i'm not hugely familar with them and their AT cube acoustic looks very interesting - a bit like the AER bass cube but without the hernia-inducing weight.  Same price as an AER though, but you can't have everything.  

Edited July 3, 2023 by TheRev

[TorturedSaints]

I haven’t gigged my DB (no pickup nor mic) but with my NS Wav EUB I use a Fishman Platinum into Quilter Bass Block 800 (without using all of the 800W) into Barefaced OneTen.   People seem to like the sound. Plenty of cut through if required for a 50 player wind band. 

[Ian Davies]

Shameless plug for my Markbass Mini CMD 121P combo that's in the amps and cabs for sale section. Really great for the double bass, I've used it in jazz and music theatre and it's been brilliant. Plenty of power and easy to transport.