Plastic Fantasic- Why Do Zoom get Flak?

[Chienmortbb]

I have. Had Zoom pedals for well over 30 years. All have had plastic enclosures and all have sailed through hundreds of gigs.  So why is there often a sneer when Zoom’s enclosures are mentioned? The technology has proven itself so what is the problem?

 

Of course, plastic does not shield as well as metal but my experience is that the Zoom pedals are well designed and not susceptible to interference. So what is the beef with Zoom?

[King Tut]

I agree. I’ve used zoom lots and mostly use a B3n live or a B1four for travelling light. Never had an issue with durability. It’s also often mentioned in reviews of Behringer pedals. They may have had some issues but you’d have to be pretty heavy footed to break one of the cases!

[velvetkevorkian]

I suspect this is just a peril of positioning yourself at the bottom of the market (which Zoom did for a long time) -- when I had a Zoom 506 many years ago they were quite obviously what you got when you couldn't afford one of the Boss units. A lot of people will still internalise that heirarchy regardless of current quality.

[Chienmortbb]

2 hours ago, King Tut said:

I agree. I’ve used zoom lots and mostly use a B3n live or a B1four for travelling light. Never had an issue with durability. It’s also often mentioned in reviews of Behringer pedals. They may have had some issues but you’d have to be pretty heavy footed to break one of the cases!

Yes, I also have A Behringer’s BDI21 and that is close to the Zooms in toughness. 

[PaulThePlug]

@Chienmortbb If you are including the Zoom B1on i had off you for my Eldest's mate, works fine, with absolutely no signs of wear..

A similar moan of the Behringer BDI21.. although i think that has metal brackets underneath.

I'm on the look out for a cheap Pre/DI missed the deal at Anderton's I'd be happy with a plastic Beringer BDI

What do people do with these pedals, and with what footware?

If they broke or cracked all the time, they would get updated or discontinued.

Edited February 7, 2023 by PaulThePlug

[Chienmortbb]

3 minutes ago, velvetkevorkian said:

I suspect this is just a peril of positioning yourself at the bottom of the market (which Zoom did for a long time) -- when I had a Zoom 506 many years ago they were quite obviously what you got when you couldn't afford one of the Boss units. A lot of people will still internalise that heirarchy regardless of current quality.

I think you may have hit the spot there. Add the fact that they don’t have exotic sounding names. 

[Chienmortbb]

Oh dear I am getting an itch for a B6….If only they had called it The Spiral or The Oval. 
 

Maybe as they are called Zoom, they could produce a successor to the B1Four called the Pocket Rocket?

A B6 MK2 called Basement Jacks.

 

Off to take my pills now.

[Baloney Balderdash]

Well, the Zoom B1 and G1 Four (yes, I do own both) are crap compared to the B1Xon and G1Xon (yes, I won both) that they released around 2013 I think, which were actually even better than the contemporaneous Boss multi effects, and which used the same digital effect models as featured in their current production Multi Stomp boxes.

 

Much more versatile, flexible and tweakable, and as far as I am concerned sounds far better too. 

 

Also Zoom used to be utter crap before around the 2010's as well, a shame they reverted back to that.

 

Just because digital effect models needs more DSP power to run doesn't automatically makes them better than some that consumes less DSP power, the legendary Lexicon reverbs is one obvious example of this.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[PaulThePlug]

On 07/02/2023 at 11:33, PaulThePlug said:

 

 I'm on the look out for a cheap Pre/DI... I'd be happy with a plastic Beringer BDI

Behringer BDI21 just landed from Amazon

Can't see how you would break this in normal use... switch might be iffy quality, but not the case.

[Newfoundfreedom]

I've got 2 zoom pedals (B3 and MS60-B) and they're both built like tanks. 

 

The only pedal I've ever had fail on me is a Fender (ABY). 

[Chienmortbb]

On 09/02/2023 at 14:13, Baloney Balderdash said:

Well, the Zoom B1 and G1 Four (yes, I do own both) are crap compared to the B1Xon and G1Xon (yes, I won both) that they released around 2013 I think, which were actually even better than the contemporaneous Boss multi effects, and which used the same digital effect models as featured in their current production Multi Stomp boxes.

 

Much more versatile, flexible and tweakable, and as far as I am concerned sounds far better too. 

 

Also Zoom used to be utter crap before around the 2010's as well, a shame they reverted back to that.

 

Just because digital effect models needs more DSP power to run doesn't automatically makes them better than some that consumes less DSP power, the legendary Lexicon reverbs is one obvious example of this.

 

There is definitely a case for "It's not what you have, it is how you use it" with DSP as well as anything else. I have never bothered with an expression pedal but have had the B1ON and now the B1Four. Mechanically different but both bulletproof IMHO. TheB1Four has two advantages, it is quieter and has manual controls for Vol/Bass/Mid/Treb. I would probably still be using my B1ON if the B1Four had not come out. Finally, the Tuner on the B1FOUR is superb. Fast responding and accurate according to the Peterson App (the very best tuner under £100 is you discount the phone/tablet cost). Also, very easy to see on stage.

[Baloney Balderdash]

3 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

There is definitely a case for "It's not what you have, it is how you use it" with DSP as well as anything else. I have never bothered with an expression pedal but have had the B1ON and now the B1Four. Mechanically different but both bulletproof IMHO. TheB1Four has two advantages, it is quieter and has manual controls for Vol/Bass/Mid/Treb. I would probably still be using my B1ON if the B1Four had not come out. Finally, the Tuner on the B1FOUR is superb. Fast responding and accurate according to the Peterson App (the very best tuner under £100 is you discount the phone/tablet cost). Also, very easy to see on stage.

Well, the effects of the B1Xon (I also own a backup G1Xon, and a G1on, and a MS70-CDR, which features the same generation Zoom effect models as the G1 and B1 (X)on, as well as a G1 Four and B1 Four, so I actually know what I am talking about) are much more tweakable and customizable (beside just generally sounding better in my opinion), and you can assign the build in expression pedal, which is actually really great and responsive, to control any one parameter of any one effect of each given patch (as well as of course master input or output volume for each patch), instead of being limited to only being able to control, what 5? or something like that, expression pedal specific effects, as it is on the B1X Four.

 

Also there's no signal loss or tone suck on the B1Xon, when bypassed you get the same signal you feed it with, no coloration, unlike what I experienced with my B1 and G1 Four (which both now lives in a drawer, unlikely to ever see use again), so no need of a master EQ and volume control, on the B1Xon you can even set the volume both for each individual effect in a patch but also master for the whole patch (which as said also can be assigned to be controlled physically by the build in expression pedal).

 

Also I've experience no unwanted noise with my B1Xon (I do feed it from a power supply with isolated and filtered outlets though).

 

So I would say those "advantages" of the B1X Four (controls that allows you to make up for tone suck and coloration from the units bypass in the first place, and more accurate tuner, which most people will have a dedicated pedal for anyway, and certainly wouldn't need to be more accurate than the B1Xon for live use, plenty accurate for that use, and again by far most people using a separate more precise tuner for setting intonation, serious recordings e.t.c) are by far overshadowed by the advantages of the B1Xon, real advantages might I add.

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[rushbo]

I'm a diehard Zoom fan. A slightly modified B3 is the core of my pedalboard and I've no intention of changing anytime soon. My needs are fairly minimal and the B3 has always delivered. I've also had a 506, a B1XON and a B2. I wasn't quite so keen on the 506, but the others have always sounded great to me. The casing on every plastic bodied Zoom pedal I've ever used has been very durable, but the metal housing of the B3 will probably survive The Apocalypse.  I also use a Behringer BDI21 which has taken quite a beating over the last few years and always comes up smiling. Every time Zoom release a new bass Multi FX, I get a bit excited, but after reading the spec and re-assessing my needs, my humble B3 trumps them all - for my needs, anyway. 

 

I would suggest that people who are a bit sniffy about Zoom pedals might be listening with their eyes rather than their ears. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by rushbo

[Woodinblack]

I gigged purely a B3 for the longest time, and had no problems with it. I upgraded to a B3n, but I have actually never used it live - i haven't got round to getting on with the UI, I also have a B1Four which I put on my pedal board last week as I had a problem with power for my helix, but at the last gig the helix was working fine so it didn't get used.

[Cat Burrito]

I had a Zoom multi-effects unit back around 1999/2000 and loved it. I've often thought about buying one again. As with all these things, 80% of the effects weren't for me but the sounds I did use were great. I had no idea that these things weren't rated. 

[SumOne]

1 minute ago, Cat Burrito said:

I had no idea that these things weren't rated. 

I think at least on Basschat almost every mention of Zoom pedals is positive, at least for value for money. Perhaps I'm missing something but I haven't seen people sneering about the plastic. 

 

Then again, plastic isn't seen as premium as metal. I'd rather drop a MXR pedal than a Zoom pedal, the Zoom will probably be fine but the plastic feels more likely to crack. That's fine though, it helps keep the price down and one of the best things about them is their value for money. 

[Waddo Soqable]

I've got a B1 four (very good & useful little pedal for the money) and i reckon it's plenty robust enough unless you're a total animal and use it as a cricket ball /football 

[andruca]

I started using Zoom multiFX around 2000. I first got a BFX-708, noisy, but WAY more bang for the buck than anything remotely close in price. Upgraded to a 708II in 2003 (quite an upgrade), also owned a B2.1u (kept the 708II for some more years as I liked its tone more, in fact the 708II replaced a Boss GT-6B I owned, liked the Zoom's tone better). In 2015 I got an MS-60B as a birthday gift and that really made the final switch for me. I stopped using my SansAmp live and since then I've only used Zooms for such purpose (SansAmp only gets used for recording). I currently own said MS-60B, plus a B3, a G3, a G1Xon, an MS-50G and a B1Xfour. All are as reliable as it gets, and also most are really customizable (I have guitar+bass FX models in all my Zooms, except for the B3&G3, which can't be hacked to do so). I can sound any way I like on any of them. I still prefer the previouos gen to the newest (B3n/B1four), fours sound boxy in comparison, you have to further EQ it to make it sound with the "fullness" my previous gen gadgets get more naturally. Still can be made to sound superb, just a question of knowing what you want and what to dial in to make it happen. There's no tone you can't get. In fact I (along with my brother) built a GUMA Drive pedal (B3K clone) and after just a couple of weeks with it I managed to get a great Darkglass "impersonation" with previous gen Zooms, which don't really emulate any Darkglass pedals, using the BA SQUEAK effect, a blendable RAT emulation. Sorta' disapointing, the GUMA Drive is now also recluse in my studio, Zooms can do that for me too in live situations.

 

 

As per durability I've never had any of these Zooms break on me ever. My G1Xon (plastic) in fact fell from about 2m (6+ft) high about 2 years ago, it hit a desk, then the floor. Not even a scratch on it, and it keeps working perfectly many years after the event. The (Ikea) desk got the worst part of it (big hole on top after the huge hit). Zooms are TOUGH. Also own a couple Zoom R24 recorders (my 16-chan portable recording studio) and they're also super dependable and tough.

Edited February 13, 2023 by andruca