Jump to content
Baloney Balderdash

Is a cheap, lightweight, min. 200W, powered, FRFR cab, with a flat response at max 50Hz, too much to ask for?

Recommended Posts

Is a cheap, lightweight, minimum 200W, powered, full range, flat response cab, with a flat response at max. 50Hz, and ideally with some kind of control over the high frequency tweeter as well, too much to ask for?

I would think yes, by far most likely, but I am open for suggestions of something that at least somewhat approximates that.

Edited by Baloney Balderdash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RCF 310-A mk4?  £288, 12.2kg, 400W, 50-20kHz.  Perhaps  worth quantifying "cheap" and "lightweight" though, as they mean different things to different people.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure my QSC K12.2 qualifies as cheap nor lightweight, or which of the other criteria it hits or misses but for me it’s been the amp/cab nonsense slayer, it’s bleedin’ awesome.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

RCF 310-A mk4?  £288, 12.2kg, 400W, 50-20kHz.  Perhaps  worth quantifying "cheap" and "lightweight" though, as they mean different things to different people.

I use the Mk3 version of this, it just does what it says on the tin. I think the OP will struggle to get something FRFR with control over the tweeter though. It's kind of the point of FRFR that it has a flat response, but you'd normally use that system with some sort of modeller or pre-amp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes the Basschat

12 hours ago, stewblack said:

Sounds a bit like a powered version of the Basschat Cab. I think the powers that be are working towards that. 

@Chienmortbb

Yes indeed altghough it is on hold at the moment. One other point is the tweeter control. If a cabinet is truly FRFR then the tweeter will not stand out and a control probably would not be needed. In the years I have been using the Mk2 and Mk3 Basschat 112's, I have never felt it too bright and could always get a good sound by adjusting the amp EQ or bass tone control(s).

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I use the Mk3 version of this, it just does what it says on the tin. I think the OP will struggle to get something FRFR with control over the tweeter though. It's kind of the point of FRFR that it has a flat response, but you'd normally use that system with some sort of modeller or pre-amp.

Having heard Phil's RCF I can only agree that it would beat most cheap small bass cabinets when used with a pre-amp/modeller and as stage monitors I suspect they would excel. I will be sticking to my BC112 though with an amp as I built it and can modify it at any point.

Edited by Chienmortbb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would an FRFR like the RCF be suitable for upright bass too if I used something like a Tech 21 Q-strip or F-Deck?

To play live on upright I use an Ashdown ABM 115 combo which feels a bit excessive so I have been thinking about swapping out my cab for a FRFR cab. I also play guitar and already use modelling straight into PA.

I don't need huge volume as I could split it into PA, just for rehearsing, practice or monitoring.

Would be good to rationalise all the equipment and use the same speaker for both guitar and upright as needed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, randythoades said:

Would an FRFR like the RCF be suitable for upright bass too if I used something like a Tech 21 Q-strip or F-Deck?

To play live on upright I use an Ashdown ABM 115 combo which feels a bit excessive so I have been thinking about swapping out my cab for a FRFR cab. I also play guitar and already use modelling straight into PA.

I don't need huge volume as I could split it into PA, just for rehearsing, practice or monitoring.

Would be good to rationalise all the equipment and use the same speaker for both guitar and upright as needed.

How about a Barefaced Super Midget? I see a fair few upright bassists pair one of these with an Acoustic Image Clarus amplifier.

https://barefacedaudio.com/products/super-midget

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, randythoades said:

Would an FRFR like the RCF be suitable for upright bass too if I used something like a Tech 21 Q-strip or F-Deck?

I used an RCF HD 10-A (which is pretty much the same as the RCF 310-A) on upright for a while, mainly for monitoring.  It was a good setup.  I moved to the slightly larger/louder RCF 732-A because I also play five-string bass guitar and occasionally don't have PA support so need to swing the speaker around to fill the room.  In fact I have done that with the smaller HD-10 and it did ok but it was reaching its limits.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One additional really good thing about powered speakers, which is nothing at all to do with "FRFR", is that most of them are designed with the option to tilt into a 45° monitor position.  I can hear myself a lot better with something in front of me pointing at my head vs something behind me pointing at the back of my knees. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, thebassist said:

How about a Barefaced Super Midget? I see a fair few upright bassists pair one of these with an Acoustic Image Clarus amplifier.

https://barefacedaudio.com/products/super-midget

Thanks, I have looked several times at the BF cabs and have been very tempted.

I am happy generally with my Ashdown in the sound department, nice, fat and round, but keep thinking about option of just having the one active cab and preamp so I could run upright, electric and acoustic guitars all through the same one as needs dictate rather than having different solutions for each instrument. Save a lot of storage.

Plus a BF cab and a clean powerful amp like the AI would take me well over the cost of something like the RCF or QSC along with a decent preamp pedal which I could use as a multi purpose amplifier.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

One additional really good thing about powered speakers, which is nothing at all to do with "FRFR", is that most of them are designed with the option to tilt into a 45° monitor position.  I can hear myself a lot better with something in front of me pointing at my head vs something behind me pointing at the back of my knees. 

That is also true, I would find that helpful. Also the option to place on a stand.

I am glad that others have used an active speaker for upright, I wasn't sure if it would be at all a viable option. The best sound I got for myself was using an old Carlsboro keyboard amplifier in an obscure reheasal room, but just not enough volume, so I am thinking that active PA would be similar.

Edited by randythoades
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, randythoades said:

Would an FRFR like the RCF be suitable for upright bass too if I used something like a Tech 21 Q-strip or F-Deck?

To play live on upright I use an Ashdown ABM 115 combo which feels a bit excessive so I have been thinking about swapping out my cab for a FRFR cab. I also play guitar and already use modelling straight into PA.

I don't need huge volume as I could split it into PA, just for rehearsing, practice or monitoring.

Would be good to rationalise all the equipment and use the same speaker for both guitar and upright as needed.

I don't play upright (wish I did though) but it should be no different from going through the PA.  the thing is that plenty of people have PA speakers so it shouldn't be a problem to find one to try out. If you live in Somerset for example.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

 the thing is that plenty of people have PA speakers so it shouldn't be a problem to find one to try out. If you live in Somerset for example.

Or Newcastle... 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I don't play upright (wish I did though) but it should be no different from going through the PA.  the thing is that plenty of people have PA speakers so it shouldn't be a problem to find one to try out. If you live in Somerset for example.

Ha! Very goood point... should have thought of that...!!!

I will ask my previous drummer, he has access to a full Yamaha PA with his other band. During these times I am sure it wouldn't be a problem to borrow one.

Sorry if this sounds a bit dumb though... would a standard active PA speaker be flat enough response? There seems to be specific FRFR speakers so I assumed they were different. The higher end ones seem to mention that they would be suitable as flat response but doesn't mention that on the Yamaha DXR for instance...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, randythoades said:

Sorry if this sounds a bit dumb though... would a standard active PA speaker be flat enough response? There seems to be specific FRFR speakers so I assumed they were different. The higher end ones seem to mention that they would be suitable as flat response but doesn't mention that on the Yamaha DXR for instance...

I would guess marketing, since FRFR is a buzzword.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, randythoades said:

Ha! Very goood point... should have thought of that...!!!

I will ask my previous drummer, he has access to a full Yamaha PA with his other band. During these times I am sure it wouldn't be a problem to borrow one.

Sorry if this sounds a bit dumb though... would a standard active PA speaker be flat enough response? There seems to be specific FRFR speakers so I assumed they were different. The higher end ones seem to mention that they would be suitable as flat response but doesn't mention that on the Yamaha DXR for instance...

All PA speakers nowadays are designed to be as flat as possible, there is nothing special acoustically about those that are marketed as FRFR instrument speakers. There's no magic to speakers for bass either the rules of physics and economics still apply and cheap small speakers are still limited in their bass handling ability compared to larger and more expensive ones. There are still bargains and good value for money to be sought out but if something looks too good to be true it probably is something to be avoided.

All FRFR really means is that they are trying to design something that is flat. You can always tell if music is acoustic or amplified and there will be slight variations in sound between PA speakers, so it is worth trying them and of course deep bass is always problematic at high volumes for any speaker. The fact you are looking for modest volumes with the PA doing the heavy lifting helps of course.

Yamaha's active speakers are really highly rated at the moment. In listening tests a couple of years ago I thought RCF's had a slight edge on vocals and QSC make good kit. My current band use them as PA. I'm not sure that the difference between the best brands would be that obvious with bass. Those Yamaha's will tell you straight away if this approach is right for you.

The only thing you are likely to find is that we have got used to 'voiced' speakers where someone has tried to make the speaker easily likeable. FRFR can be underwhelming at first, spend some time getting the eq right for you before you make a inal decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

All PA speakers nowadays are designed to be as flat as possible, there is nothing special acoustically about those that are marketed as FRFR instrument speakers. There's no magic to speakers for bass either the rules of physics and economics still apply and cheap small speakers are still limited in their bass handling ability compared to larger and more expensive ones. There are still bargains and good value for money to be sought out but if something looks too good to be true it probably is something to be avoided.

All FRFR really means is that they are trying to design something that is flat. You can always tell if music is acoustic or amplified and there will be slight variations in sound between PA speakers, so it is worth trying them and of course deep bass is always problematic at high volumes for any speaker. The fact you are looking for modest volumes with the PA doing the heavy lifting helps of course.

Yamaha's active speakers are really highly rated at the moment. In listening tests a couple of years ago I thought RCF's had a slight edge on vocals and QSC make good kit. My current band use them as PA. I'm not sure that the difference between the best brands would be that obvious with bass. Those Yamaha's will tell you straight away if this approach is right for you.

The only thing you are likely to find is that we have got used to 'voiced' speakers where someone has tried to make the speaker easily likeable. FRFR can be underwhelming at first, spend some time getting the eq right for you before you make a inal decision.

Thanks for this. I understand. I will give them a try over the next couple of weeks. I will try first with the Tech 21 Q-strip as a preamp as it has some really effective EQ and is great for recording.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As has already been said cheap and lightweight are relative terms.

My current Helix Floor into an RCF745 is smaller, lighter and cost less new than I paid for the second hand EBS and Tech Soundsytems rig it replaced...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ran electric 5 string bass, acoustic fretless and guitar through my QSC, via a Fishman Platinum Pro, just reproduced what went in really. I imagine it would be fantastic for upright, the QSC K series have various presets and you can change the eq settings via the jog wheel and screen on the back. They also have handy input options to switch between mic, line and Hi-z inputs.

 

On 19/11/2020 at 12:16, jrixn1 said:

One additional really good thing about powered speakers, which is nothing at all to do with "FRFR", is that most of them are designed with the option to tilt into a 45° monitor position.  I can hear myself a lot better with something in front of me pointing at my head vs something behind me pointing at the back of my knees. 

 

This is one of the main benefits IMO, having a compact, loud and powerful wedge monitor was a godsend for me. Solved a lot of the problems associated with unpredictable stage layouts regardless of the FRFR aspect. I was using the Markbass Club series before this which can be tilted but the small footprint of the QSC gave me even more versatility in terms of where I could put the cab. Could easily fit between the legs of out light stands so basically took up no space and could be pointed directly at my ears.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lemmywinks said:

Ran electric 5 string bass, acoustic fretless and guitar through my QSC, via a Fishman Platinum Pro, just reproduced what went in really. I imagine it would be fantastic for upright, the QSC K series have various presets and you can change the eq settings via the jog wheel and screen on the back.

I use mainly acoustic basses and initially through a Fishman Platinum Pro, such a fine sound. I needed only the tiniest tweaks on the Fishman to get a bang on sound for me. I stopped using the Fishman only because I began using a HX Stomp which gives me a multitude of options when I’m mucking about but for serious use it just gives me more eq + modelling options. If I’m playing at a venue with a PA I go bass > Stomp > QSC using the QSC as a monitor taking a line out the back of the QSC to the desk. Where there is no PA I go bass > Stomp and take a line out of the Stomp to the desk and use the QSC as backline. Never going back to a trad setup but I play in an acoustic duo so I’m lucky that the Stomp/QSC covers all my needs.*

* Yes, I am aware I have written a variation on this comment on several posts but it’s been such a game changer for me I’m going to keep banging on about it, sorry in advance.

Edited by Frank Blank
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



  • Similar Content

    • By r_vw52
      Right, so I've had this old Peavey Century 200 (4ohm) head sitting around for AGES, finally the other day I decided to give it some company by purchasing a TC Electronic 2x10 (8ohm) cab.

      Because the Peavy is 6,000 years old and the cab is pretty modern, they both have different connection plugs (Peavey is standard 6.5mm jack output while the cab is Speakon input).

      So I buy the right cable to connect them, turn on the power and everything seems ok. A short while later however I start getting this almighty thudding sound, like a heartbeat on steroids. It doesn't matter which dials I turn on the amp, even with everything dialled off, I still get the thudding sound. I look at the speakers and they're about to jump out of the cab.

      Here's the weird part though, when I tilt the head 45 degrees, the thudding stops completely and everything functions as it should. I should also mention there is quite a lot of heat, I'm sensing this is a bad thing as I've never had an amp kick out so much heat.

      I'm hoping someone can help me understand what's going on before I ultimately burn down my house.
    • By meterman
      In the summer I bought an excellent MIJ Squier Bullet Bass from Gareth of this very forum. And it really was excellent. It recorded beautifully and looked handsome, which always helps. But I ended up having difficulty playing it for long due to the state of my left shoulder, neck and back problems and this made me move towards something short scale and hollow bodied. I'd planned to sell the 34" scale Squier Bullet and buy a 30" scale hollow body bass, before emigrating on the 17th of December. I'd advertised the Bullet on here but it didn't sell so I was resigned to taking it with me but still getting another bass before I moved to France. And then maybe buying something online from Thoman.fr or Le Bon Coin once I'd moved.
      On the night of the 14th I googled 'Hofner Violin Bass' just out of curiosity and the search results threw up a load of results but at the top of the first page were a load of ads for Hofners, from Thomann, Absolute Music, Guitar Guitar etc. And among them was an Ignition series Hofner Violin Bass at a stupidly cheap price with 48hr delivery so I hit the buy-it-now button and hoped for the best. Me and my wife were fully occupied, still packing up boxes of our belongings for the move, so I didn't have much time to think about it but hoped it would arrive before we left for France.
      On the 16th I had a mate come down to Brighton to buy my old 1960's Philips organ. He's a pedal-steel player by trade but he's just got a studio space in north London and before he set off for Brighton he was looking for a bass on the Facebook marketplace in East Sussex. He hadn't found a bass but he did collect a Fender Twin from somehwere on the way. Then he got to our place and he saw the Bullet bass, picked it up, said "God, how light is this?!" and fell in love with it and we did a deal. While he was playing the Bullet, the doorbell rang, it was the courier guy with the Hofner Bass. When he handed me the box I thought it was an empty box, that's how light these things are. Even double boxed with bubblewrap it still felt empty. When I opened the boxes and got the Hofner bass out I was surprised at just how light it was. I don't have any scales so I didn't weigh it, but it's probably about the same as two packets of crisps or something daft like that. Big packets of crisps obviously, but you get my drift.
      Our move was being co-ordinated and handled by Douglas a.k.a. @Dad3353 and he knows a fair bit about Hofners so I handed it to him and he said, yeah they're all usually pretty light. Didn't have a lot of time to spare before the morning of the 17th so I boxed it back up ready for the move. I was sad to see the Bullet go but at least I knew I was going to a good home, and I did mates rates on it because I've known him for years and we'd done sessions together etc. All good.
      Anyhow we did the drive from Brighton to South of France (well @Dad3353 did, I just looked out the window and drank fizzy pop) and the day after we settled in I got the Hofner Violin Bass out, plugged it into a little practice amp and fell in love   - It's such a funky sounding little thing, super light, and has more bottom end than it looks like it should. Couldn't stop playing it, didn't want to put it down. The neck is so easy to get used to, and the pickups are great. It has more sustain than I was expecting but flats and a bit of foam at the bridge should sort that. The whole feel of it is superb for the money, I can fully recommend the Ignition series violin bass if anyone is thinking about one, they're ace. 
      I removed the guard as I prefer the look without one, and I couldn't get on with the roundwound strings that came with it though, so tried putting on a used set of Roto black nylon flats I had hanging about. But the E string was too big to fit into the tiny little guitar machine heads that the Hofner has. No problem, I've got a set of D'Addario Chrome flats that I'd had on my last Mustang bass, I'll just put them on. But no, the gauge is still too big for the tuners. Fergling little Bergstedts!!! 😡😆
      So I've ordered a set of Hofner Contemporary flats from Thomann. They haven't arrived yet so I'm still making do with the roundwounds, but once they arrive I'll get them straight on and record some clips. Meanwhile, here's the obligatory pics:



       
      And because @Len_derby asked for a pic of it in the sunshine I took it out onto the balcony of our apartment and took a quick pic. It's not my best photo, but the sun was out and it was 14 degrees here. I was even wearing shorts but of course nobody wants to see that 😂 Anyway here's the bass in the sun:

      If anyone is on the fence about buying one of these, or can't quite make their mind up, all I can say is the one I got is brilliant. Wish I'd bought one years ago. If you see one at a decent price go for it 👍
    • By Hellzero
      Due to the Covid-19 situation and severe back problems (66% officially disabled because of it) plus right shoulder injury (non-operable capsulitis from which, after more than 3 years, I will never fully recover), I'm selling all the items I'm not using anymore, especially amps and related as I bought a new 3 channels combo. I've also considerably lowered the price for a quick sale.
       
      GSS FRFR 12 + 6 + tweeter, 1000 Watts active full range flat response cabinet, only 12 kilos. The French Barefaced FR 800.
       
      NO TRADES !
      NON NEGOTIABLE PRICE !
       
      Asking price including shipping fully insured with tracking number to your place in these European countries (ask for other countries) : Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France (excluding French overseas departments and territories), Germany, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Monaco, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and United Kingdom : £654 GBP !!! Official retail price is €1094 Euros (around £1000 GBP) !
       
      Shipping to United Kingdom is only possible until the 23rd of December 2020 because of the Brexit... Shipping will resume on the 1st of January 2021, but with an extra huge customs fee, because U.K. will be outside EEC.
       
      In fully working condition, bought new last year on the 6th of December 2019.
       
      Here are the specifications :
      Speakers : 12" Neodymium Celestion + 6.5" PHL Audio + silk dome tweeter (à la Glockenklang or Hi-Fi)
      Frequency response : 50 Hz to 18 kHz
      Power : 2 x 500 Watts amps, so 1000 Watts (see photos below), but announced as 500 Watts (2 x 250 Watts) as the speakers are 8 Ohms.
      Weight : 12 kilos
       
      Will come with the original EU powerCon lead and a UK classic one that I can adapt on the powerCon if needed. I put a plug on the XLR link out that you can, of course, remove (Hi-Fi addiction remains 🤦‍♂️ ).
       
      Non-smoking environment as usual.
       
      Link to the GSS FRFR active cabinet page : Baffle actif 12+6+tweeter (active cab) GSS pour guitare, basse et claviers (guitarsoundsystems.com)
       
      What you see is what you get !
       
      Look at the photos taken under different lights to see the real condition, which show only some very little wear and marks.
       
      Don't hesitate to ask for more.
    • By loremil
      Price drop: £20

      Neotech neoprene padded guitar strap, ideal for heavy instruments and very adjustable. Overall strap length: 36"–45" (91,4cm–114,3cm) .
      Collection in Hackney, London or shipment at buyer's expense. Thanks for looking.

    • By edirelandbass
      Markbass Little Mark II 500w head 
      Bergantino CN112 CaB
       Seems I may have overpriced the cab a bit, so will take £600
      Both with covers, both decent condition, a few scratches on each and one small break in the tolex on the bottom of the cab, but all working perfectly. 
      Great little lightweight rig, have gigged it in plenty of medium rooms with no trouble. Just about light enough that I’ve trollied it on the tube to a few gigs.
      Can’t really justify having two bass amps at the moment, hence the sale. 

      Would rather sell together and will chuck in a decent speakon cable and kettle lead. Otherwise £250 for the head and £375 for the cab.






×
×
  • Create New...