A thread for Basschatters who have an interest in HIFI

[itu]

19 minutes ago, prowla said:

I keep thinking about connecting my Sony Walkman Pro to my system; I think it needs a service though.

D6C is a complicated unit. Try to find someone who has manuals, tools and knows latest HW updates. 

[Hellzero]

First, go there to find all data available for your turntable:

 

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable-database.php?make=Dual&mdl=CS+505&sort=2&ascdesc=ASC&search=search&drive=any&motor=any&control=any&auto=any&changer=any

 

Then on the same website, you'll find the data available for your cartridge:

 

https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php?m=any&mod=DN165E&t=any&sort=2&Search=Search&sty=&ovlo=&ovhi=&can=&dclo=&dchi=&stid=&masslo=&masshi=&notes=&prlo=&prhi=

 

Finally, buy a new stylus, like here:

 

https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/ortofon-dn-165e-replacement-stylus

 

[Dan Dare]

13 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

Over 40 years ago, I bought a Dual CS505 turntable, which I have used, off and on, over that time. 

 

Mrs Dinger rediscovered her record collection, and we played a few discs.  Unfortunately, the needle in the cartridge (or the stylus?) is now misaligned - instead of facing downwards, it rotated by 45 degrees to the right, and the sound is distorted.

 

Not sure how it happened (it worked when we started playing our vinyl), but it now clearly needs adjusting or replacing. 

 

Can anyone recommend a solution?  The stylus reads "Ortofon", "DUAL" and "DN165E" , here:

   

 

I have found a few possible replacements, each for £20: 

https://www.recordstylus.co.uk/shop/Record-Stylus-Needle-for-Dual-505-CS505-DN165E-DN166E-DN167-OM5-p610017647

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303287394628?_skw=505&itmmeta=01KCYT9ENV70KJKZ5E0X8J919Q&hash=item469d566144:g:ZaMAAOxyx-BSb~bt

 

Oddly, https://www.dualfred.de/ sells everything for Dual turntables, apart from styli     

 

Before I invest, can Basschatters advise?  Do I just need the stylus, or a cartridge, or a new turntable? Might I need new belts?  Do the bearings need maintenance?

 

You can't adjust/straighten a damaged stylus. A replacement OE stylus for that cart' is around £60. I'd be leery of no-name or knock-off ones, but it's your choice. Google it and you'll find plenty. It goes without saying that you shouldn't play your vinyl if the stylus is as badly out of alignment as you state. You'll do serious damage.

 

It's worth replacing very old belts on turntables as they do stretch and even perish. If it's 40 years old, it could probably do with a drop of oil for the bearing, but enquire of the everything Dual website you refer to. 

 

 

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, bass_dinger said:

Could you instead look at older machines, built when cassettes were a viable option for music?

 

I have an excellent Yamaha KX580, which are still available on eBay etc. Dolby B C and S, plus MPX.

 

Last time I looked at the possibility of getting a replacement, buying second-hand meant old, potentially unreliable, overpriced crap. However I've just had a look on eBay and there are some hopefully suitable machines for around the £150 mark which is probably worth it. Plus if I get all the cassettes digitised in a timely manner, I'll be able to sell it on when I'm done for hopefully what I paid for it.

[bass_dinger]

3 hours ago, Hellzero said:

First, go there to find all data available for your turntable:

 

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable-database.php?make=Dual&mdl=CS+505&sort=2&ascdesc=ASC&search=search&drive=any&motor=any&control=any&auto=any&changer=any

 

Then on the same website, you'll find the data available for your cartridge:

 

https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php?m=any&mod=DN165E&t=any&sort=2&Search=Search&sty=&ovlo=&ovhi=&can=&dclo=&dchi=&stid=&masslo=&masshi=&notes=&prlo=&prhi=

 

Finally, buy a new stylus, like here:

 

https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/ortofon-dn-165e-replacement-stylus

 

 

@Hellzero and @Dan Dare are my HiFi butlers - very helpful and practical advice on what I need to do next. Thanks 

 

After 40-plus years, my then-£109 turntable is probably due some maintenance.  So, my next project will be the turntable. 

 

As opposed to my next turntable being a ProJect https://www.project-audio.com/en/turntables/#primary-line

 

Edited Sunday at 14:57 by bass_dinger
I thought of a pun!

[Matt P]

@bass_dinger  for cartridges my current sensibly priced favourite is audio technica, the vm95 range is great value and all the stylus versions fit on the same body, so you can start with the cheapest conical one and then upgrade as far as you want, I'm using the elliptical one on my nad turntable and am very pleased with it. 

 

Audio technica

 

The conical option is is about thirty quid and I think the elliptical is about fifty. 

I have generally avoided aftermarket stylii, once the supply of genuine oem options runs out I will swap to a more modern design anyway. 

 

Matt

[fergs40]

On 20/12/2025 at 21:32, bass_dinger said:

Before I invest, can Basschatters advise?  Do I just need the stylus, or a cartridge, or a new turntable? Might I need new belts?  Do the bearings need maintenance?

Here’s the modern equivalent of that stylus: https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/ortofon-dn-165e-replacement-stylus/ (EDIT: I now see @Hellzero got there before me with that…:-))

 

I suspect you could also use any of Ortofon’s OM range of styluses (https://ortofon.com/collections/om-hifi-concorde-series-1), which all fit on the same cartridge and run from £40 up to spendy - the OM10 used to be a fairly standard fitment on decent mid-price turntables, and the OM20 is a nice step up, albeit three times the price.

 

Or, as @Matt P suggests, change the cartridge - the Audio Technica ones he suggests are very good and open up a whole range of different stylus options. It can feel a bit daunting, but I’d say if you can do basic setup on a bass you’ll probably manage fitting and aligning a new cartridge.

 

I’d also agree with @Dan Dare that if you’ve never replaced the belt in 40 years it’s probably a good idea to do so. Thakker in Germany is a good source (https://www.thakker.eu/en/belts/turntables/), but I’m sure there will be UK-based suppliers too.

 

Whether you need any other maintenance is really down to your judgement about whether everything is running and moving smoothly - if the platter isn’t making any unpleasant noises, and the arm raises, lowers and tracks across the record smoothly you’re probably good to go. You can also download apps that use the motion sensor in your phone to check whether the rotation speed is right (a worn belt can certainly affect that).

 

Finally, you might just check you’ve got your tracking weight (the downward force on the stylus) right - that might be a cause of the original bending. Plenty of guides online for that.

 

HTH

Edited yesterday at 12:17 by fergs40

[BassTractor]

Whatever you choose, @bass_dinger, do not underestimate the modest CS505.
It's both a magnificent player and a keeper. Mine's from 1982 or so, and probably needs a new belt now.

Different models exist with different heads, and I can't be very specific, but if yours is the model with the dedicated cartridges under a non-standard head, it's relatively easy to change the head so it can take standard cartridges.
Me, I eventually went for a moving coil (and the arm in that case needed some extra counter-weight), and also exchanged the rubber platter cover with a thicker, softer one. 

[bass_dinger]

35 minutes ago, BassTractor said:

Whatever you choose, @bass_dinger, do not underestimate the modest CS505.
It's both a magnificent player and a keeper. Mine's from 1982 or so, and probably needs a new belt now.

Different models exist with different heads, and I can't be very specific, but if yours is the model with the dedicated cartridges under a non-standard head, it's relatively easy to change the head so it can take standard cartridges.
Me, I eventually went for a moving coil (and the arm in that case needed some extra counter-weight), and also exchanged the rubber platter cover with a thicker, softer one. 

 

I knew that the Dual 505 was a highly-rated turntable back in the early 80s.  In fact, it was the only budget option at the time (with the Rega Planars 2 and 3 being the more expensive options).  However, I had not realised that the 505 is still a contender.

 

The idea of an cartridge upgrade feels too complex right now - but maybe later.  For now, I have ordered the stylus from Audio Affair, and will be shopping for belts from Thakker: (my Dual 505, my sister's Pioneer PL Z94, and my Yamaha KX580 cassette deck).  

 

I was grateful for the advice, to avoid cheaper copies of the stylus and risk damaging the record collection.   

           

[BassTractor]

26 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

However, I had not realised that the 505 is still a contender.

Maybe I should've worded more carefully. I do not know how it would rate compared to newer players like the Projects.
All I know is that in the eighties, when I worked in a Hi-Fi shop, we compared it with expensive players like the Michell GyroDec, and the differences were minimal. From that perspective, I see no reason to ditch a 505 in 2025; one wouldn't ditch a GyroDec either, I presume.

[Woodwind]

On 21/12/2025 at 13:38, bass_dinger said:

 

@Hellzero and @Dan Dare are my HiFi butlers - very helpful and practical advice on what I need to do next. Thanks 

 

After 40-plus years, my then-£109 turntable is probably due some maintenance.  So, my next project will be the turntable. 

 

As opposed to my next turntable being a ProJect https://www.project-audio.com/en/turntables/#primary-line

 

 

 

I have a project turntable bought 20 years ago to replace a project I'd bought 5 years prior and had burned the motor out on.

I forget exactly what debut model, but it would be lower mid range in their current debut line up with upgraded cartridge and some other tweaks etc. 

It extracts what I want from a record, but it is a painfully dull, pseudo minimalist, pedestrian piece. 

 

If I had a Dual 505 I would be excited to play records in a way I'm not with the project.

 

Get a new belt and drop the cash on a new stylus or even a whole new cartridge and enjoy the music.

 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Woodwind

[itu]

1 hour ago, BassTractor said:

...we compared it with expensive players like the Michell GyroDec, and the differences were minimal... 

Dear Tractor, you just don't understand the finesses of GyroDec. You need to listen to the sound it doesn't produce. A friend of mine changed his CD, because the mechanics made so much noise. 

 

I have an old Technics SL-1210 that I got for free, because it was filled with liquor, something that contains hell of a lot of sugar. I managed to clean the frames and to my surprise the electronics were intact. Had to buy a new cover and a platter cover and a cartridge that was NOS Shure V15 type III. It has been running for two decades with no issues so far. 

[Leonard Smalls]

18 hours ago, BassTractor said:

the differences were minimal

And so it is with the law of diminishing returns!

Back in about 2002 when I decided to upgrade my old Linn Axis I did some extensive testing - I even took my Ditton 66 speakers and EAR 834deluxe phonostage to various hifi shops... 

We tried everything from the Kuzma Stabi S (this was the cheapest, and excellent though lacking that final bit of detail) through Wilson Benesch (darker, not much excitement), Michell Orbe (similar), SME 30 (expensive, bit clinical, still not enough musicality), Clearaudio Revolution (excellent) and Petite Verdier (very best of all, though expensive and my Mrs didn't like the looks of it).

While by no means a scientific test as all were in different rooms with different amplification (though we chose something everytime with similar capabilities to my then-current Lumley 120W valve monoblocks),  we found differences between all in terms of sheer enjoyment - basically how musical they felt, and the Verdier with Moerch arm and Dynavector cart was the best I'd ever heard, closely followed by the Clearaudio. And while we could have got 95% of the performance of the Clearaudio from say, a Project at a lot less than 1/2 the money, we decided we had to look at it too...

 

[BassTractor]

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

And so it is with the law of diminishing returns!

That, and all the other known stuff, and also someting I see mentioned few times: people's ears and pre-conceptions.
The shop I worked in was up-market. We once organised a day of listening, and twas done so the listeners didn't get to know which gear they heard (dark stage, thin veil between gear and audience - lit from audience's side). People started bickering as they all heard different, often opposed, things.
- "Way too scooped sound!" 

- "You're crazy! Way too little bass and treble!"
- "Way to open! Tiring! It's that demn veil!"
- "Way too compressed! It's that demn veil!"

You get the drill.
Twas the last day I was a fanatic.

It's easy to point at a weakness the CS 505 has: it's harder to tweak than most more expensive decks. There's also the point that with a cheap Dual like that, there are more measurable differences between individual units. (We had a system for that, Ortofon perhaps, which tested the unit and printed a report.)
Point remains: Put an Ortofon MC30 on the Dual and also on an SME on the GyroDec, and, to our ears, one could live very happily with the modest Dual.

Oh, another story. We were to start selling Cabasse speakers. Listened to their most expensive model and were seriously underwhelmed. However, me listening concentrated, with closed eyes, I suddenly startled at a certain sound, and opened my eyes as I thought the importer was joking with us by playing a real instrument in the room. Of course the importer wasn't, and that "real instrument in the room" was actually the sound from those Cabasse speakers. Whoa!

Also, during the 1812 Overture, I was obviously sitting in the wrong chair:
the cannon shot right through my chest and I died on the spot.
That's Hi-Fi! 😉

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by BassTractor

[Hellzero]

Makes me want to put my pristine Revox B291 turntable on, but after 15 years of silence, the capacitors must be a bit dry and the motor may start a fire...

 

No need for a preamp as I did the Studer/Revox mod to turn the internal RIAA preamp on, which is a great plus.

 

Itching a bit...

 

[BassTractor]

Oh, there's also a phenomenon I can't explain, but I believe it's real enough.
When I listen to my crappy tv speakers, while browsing BassChat on my laptop for example, I often look up in surprise, as, when someone in a film plays music over their Hi-Fi, it's easy to hear whether their Hi-Fi is any good. I often comment-in-my-head: "Oh, that's a good system .... but how the Hull can I hear that?"

Good+crappy  >  crappy+crappy,  and markedly so.