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pete.young

Are we all using the wrong tuning?

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I played with BEAD tuning for a few months a couple of years back, and switched back to EADG when I realised I'd effectively removed a string and added a thumbrest.

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Why [u]shouldn't[/u] you tune this way... it will confuse the hell out of the lazy guitar player who has to rely on your fingerboard positioning so that he knows what he's supposed to be playing.

Why [u]should[/u] you tune this way... it will confuse the hell out of the lazy guitar player who has to rely on your fingerboard positioning so that he knows what he's supposed to be playing.

;)

I say leave it EADG and when you need that low D grab the E string tuner and give it a twist; anything below D just play higher up! I'm a simple kinda guy. :P

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[quote name='warwickhunt' post='411732' date='Feb 17 2009, 09:46 AM']Why [u]shouldn't[/u] you tune this way... it will confuse the hell out of the lazy guitar player who has to rely on your fingerboard positioning so that he knows what he's supposed to be playing.[/quote]

Adding a fifth string and having no fingerboard dots seems to confuse them equally well! As does telling the saxophonist what the notes are, him transposing them in his head and writing them down, and then the guitarist following that - free jazz...

Alex

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[quote name='warwickhunt' post='411732' date='Feb 17 2009, 09:46 AM']I say leave it EADG and when you need that low D grab the E string tuner and give it a twist; anything below D just play higher up! I'm a simple kinda guy. ;)[/quote]
Hear hear. Punk rock ain't punk rock on a low D, it needs that aggressive bite that 'normal' D gives. So there.

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[quote name='warwickhunt' post='411732' date='Feb 17 2009, 09:46 AM']Why [u]shouldn't[/u] you tune this way... it will confuse the hell out of the lazy guitar player who has to rely on your fingerboard positioning so that he knows what he's supposed to be playing.

Why [u]should[/u] you tune this way... it will confuse the hell out of the lazy guitar player who has to rely on your fingerboard positioning so that he knows what he's supposed to be playing.[/quote]

with literally EVERYONE i've played with i've had to explain that my 2nd string corresponds to the lowest string on their guitar. I must definetly think about a 35" scale i find i don't get perhaps as much sustain as i'd like on some of the notes, especially with my very low tuning. Also anyone remember that warwick bass which was tuned C#F#BE or something? If that doesn't have a long scale then i guess i'm some sort of austrailian donkey.

Edited by EdwardHimself

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[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='411884' date='Feb 17 2009, 12:31 PM']Also anyone remember that warwick bass which was tuned C#F#BE or something? If that doesn't have a long scale then i guess i'm some sort of austrailian donkey.[/quote]
That'd be the Warwick Vampyre Dark Lord. Designed for F#BEA, but only 35". It achieved the F# by using a string set running .085 to .175.

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[quote name='BottomEndian' post='411945' date='Feb 17 2009, 01:19 PM']That'd be the Warwick Vampyre Dark Lord. Designed for F#BEA, but only 35". It achieved the F# by using a string set running .085 to .175.[/quote]

yeah i remember the hugeness of the strings. Where do you even get strings like that anyway?

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My Carvin's XB75 is currently tuned F#-B-E-A-D.

Has the advantage of a 35.25" scale length & a .175 Darklord F#.

I've knackered one amp (an Ashdown 1x15) at a practice space with it so far (although I can't take all the credit...): my own gear appears to be able to handle it.

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[quote name='BottomEndian' post='411514' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:38 PM']I was wondering exactly the same thing recently. I ended up with the following list of budget 35" 4-stringers:
Peavey Cirrus BXP
ESP LTD F Series
Ibanez BTB range
HK / Woodo (or whatever name's on the headstock) 4-stringers

But like 6stringbassist says, a good 34" can have a beautiful B. Every bass is different, and some 34"s have that magic combination of factors that gives a clear, powerful B. In my (limited) experience, they tend to cost more. :P[/quote]


Spector make a 35" Euro, the Euro 435LX it was called once upon a time. Now you just specify which scale you ant when you pick the options.

Scale length is definitely not the only deciding factor in a B string. One of the best B's ever was on a 34" Spector NS5CRFM, and some of the worst have been on 35" scale Ibanez's. It's all about neck construction, and scale length helps it along.

I've been playing 5's for so long that anything less feels like I'm limiting myself. But having said that I can't see the point in a high C on a six, so don't want to go higher.

Maybe I could buy a 6 and tune it F# B E A D G? Sounds like a plan... ;)

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[quote name='dougal' post='412012' date='Feb 17 2009, 02:35 PM']My Carvin's XB75 is currently tuned F#-B-E-A-D.

Has the advantage of a 35.25" scale length & a .175 Darklord F#.

I've knackered one amp (an Ashdown 1x15) at a practice space with it so far (although I can't take all the credit...): my own gear appears to be able to handle it.[/quote]

I reckon my SWR can handle it ;) it's coped with the G rather well, what's one more semitone eh?

Edited by EdwardHimself

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I used to tune a whole tone down D-G-C-F in a band I was once in due to the singer being unable to reach the notes and then having to go down another semitone because some of the songs we did were even lower. I think it can work for original material but we were doing covers of punky songs and if you didn't keep the tempo up it would sound like an old 7 inch single played at 33rpm*

*for those who remember 7 inch singles

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[quote name='BottomEndian' post='411514' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:38 PM']I was wondering exactly the same thing recently. I ended up with the following list of budget 35" 4-stringers:
Peavey Cirrus BXP
ESP LTD F Series
Ibanez BTB range
HK / Woodo (or whatever name's on the headstock) 4-stringers

But like 6stringbassist says, a good 34" can have a beautiful B. Every bass is different, and some 34"s have that magic combination of factors that gives a clear, powerful B. In my (limited) experience, they tend to cost more. ;)[/quote]
After a bit more research I can add:

A couple of Deans, some rather too pointy for my liking, some not so bad.
Yamaha TRB 1004 . Hmm.
Allegedly , Peavy Grind. Though I could have sworn I played a Grind 4 and it was 34", the 5s and 6s are definitely 35".

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='411701' date='Feb 17 2009, 08:50 AM']Lowest note on an Eb tuba is Eb one semitone below that of a 4-string bass[/quote]
I don't know where you get your stats, but my experience doesn't agree with them. I'm no great tuba player, but I can pedal my Eb down to the B below the fundamental (same as the lowest string on a 5-string bass) on a good day. Championship section players can do this with power and good tone. Virtuosos like Steve Sykes and Shaun Crowther can get much lower.

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[quote name='pete.young' post='412537' date='Feb 17 2009, 10:30 PM']I don't know where you get your stats, but my experience doesn't agree with them. I'm no great tuba player, but I can pedal my Eb down to the B below the fundamental (same as the lowest string on a 5-string bass) on a good day. Championship section players can do this with power and good tone. Virtuosos like Steve Sykes and Shaun Crowther can get much lower.[/quote]

I know Tuba's are transposing instruments and sound lower than the pitch they are scored at. Are we taking transpostion into account?

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[quote name='ARGH' post='412251' date='Feb 17 2009, 05:28 PM']All tunings and notes are good.....its the music played with them that matters.[/quote]
Yes.

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[quote name='MacDaddy' post='412642' date='Feb 18 2009, 02:07 AM']I know Tuba's are transposing instruments and sound lower than the pitch they are scored at. Are we taking transpostion into account?[/quote]


I'm not a tuba player, but I'm assuming there's no major differences between the principles underlying a tuba and trumpet in their construction....

The Eb will be it's lowest note played open (with no valves pressed down) pressing valves drops the frequency of the note by effectively adding more tubing.
On a (Bb) trumpet the lowest 'open' note is Bb (concert pitch), and the lowest note playable (with all valves depressed) is a concert E.

The principle is that by use of the valves you can select a length of tubing that will resonate at the desired pitch, so that for example one combination will resonate at the respective frequencies of C3,G3,C4,E4,G4,C5, (think of an analogy with harmonics on a string) then the player creates the desired frequency by vibrating his lips at the right pitch. Unlike string instruments where the resonant frequencies are limited to multiples of the fundamental, brass instruments can also resonate at frequencies that are [i]fractions[/i] of the fundamental (i.e. of lower pitch than the fundamental). This is what pete refers to by "pedaling" a note, although it is bloody hard to do.



Bet you're really glad I told you that eh? :rolleyes: That's what you get for asking too many questions :)


/edit oops, sorry to resurrect an old thread, 'I'm viewing posts since last visit' and it's been a while....

Edited by SteveO

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My main bass is a 5 string as it suits me but in your situation, I make you right. If I use my 4 string jazz, I only ever use the G string for pops when slapping. If I play "notes" on the G, it usually gets drowned in the mix anyway around the 3rd to 7th frets but then, that is the nature of a Jazz bass.

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He he This made me giggle. the same thing crossed my mind...i know people that have a thumb rest. :)

[quote name='dlloyd' post='411725' date='Feb 17 2009, 10:35 AM']I played with BEAD tuning for a few months a couple of years back, and switched back to EADG when I realised I'd effectively removed a string and added a thumbrest.[/quote]


[quote name='warwickhunt' post='411732' date='Feb 17 2009, 10:46 AM']I say leave it EADG and when you need that low D grab the E string tuner and give it a twist; anything below D just play higher up! I'm a simple kinda guy. :D[/quote]

Yeah i kind of agree here too. I have a cort 5 string and i just keep going back to the 4 strings. I like the sound of the B E A D i think i'm going to have to try it out. I play Eb Ab Db Gb tuning on my acoustic 4 string. I like the looser feel of the stings i guess. (I do most of my writing on my acoustic.) I have a right handed neck on my jazz and that's Tunes DADG. I think the reversed head stock helps the low D. I play a lot of chords and i do find the D a little annoying sometimes but i just twist the low D back to E quick, play the section with the E and then Drop it back again. :rolleyes:

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[quote name='RhysP' post='462054' date='Apr 14 2009, 12:54 PM']No they're not; they are Bass [u]GUITARS[/u], hence the EADG tuning.[/quote]
I may be missing your point here, but double basses are tuned EADG too.

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[quote name='RhysP' post='462054' date='Apr 14 2009, 12:54 PM']No they're not; they are Bass [u]GUITARS[/u], hence the EADG tuning.[/quote]

As are double basses.

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[quote name='RhysP' post='462258' date='Apr 14 2009, 04:38 PM']Ignore me then - I always thought they were tuned the same as a violin GDAE. :)[/quote]
Well, it's GDAE if you're upside down... :rolleyes:

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B-E-A-D is how i play my 4 string bass as standard too.

Its very cool and opens lots of interesting possibilities that the G doesn't.

Suits my playing well but i know it doesn't work for all... The relearning the neck was also not so hard..

G

Edited by slaphappygarry

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