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Al Krow

Helix Floor/LT/HX/Stomp Owners' Club - Tips, Ideas & Patches

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26 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Like the P bass 😁

Especially when i play

Edited by Cuzzie

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1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Ah a P bass (well at least the Yammy PJ take on it) can sound pretty darned good in isolation and properly socially distanced 😁 

Yeah, wasn’t talking personally, its just how some feel. I think the Yamaha take on the P is a bit prettier than the Fender, although put flats on any of them and it all goes to pot (unless you are Iron Maiden of course)lol. 

Edited by dave_bass5

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On 22/11/2020 at 08:02, Osiris said:

Very good point. I've mentioned this elsewhere but it's worth repeating to highlight this very issue. Around 3 or 4 years ago I bought a VT Bass pedal, I was seriously impressed by the sounds available from it going by the YouTube videos. Plugged it in at home and was really pleased with how it sounded when I'd dialled in the sound I'd got in my head. Took it to the next gig a few days later, set it up, checked the volume between on and off, and was ready to go. But when I kicked it in with the band, the bass vanished from the mix. I remember the guitarist looking over to see what was going on. I kicked the pedal off and the bass was back. I checked the pedal volume at the end of the song and it was fine. It was EQ'd to give a push in the mids while keeping the low end fat and enough highs to define the tone without making it top heavy. But it just didn't work, it sounded great on its own but it was an unusable tone suck in the mix, alongside a guitar and keys playing rock and pop stuff. 

I had exactly this with a TC Electronics RH450. I really liked the idea of setting up 3 core tones for my functions band gigging and spent a long time working on them at home (at loud volumes). 

Took it on a gig and it was the worst live sound I’ve ever had. Complete tone sucker.  I was using a pair of really good Bag End cabs as well. 

Sold it the next day 😂

Stomp has been a revelation - sounds great at home and with he band!

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On 21/11/2020 at 17:23, Osiris said:

But why not use your effects with the band?

I don't think there's anything elitist about that point of view, to say it is, is in itself tosh. 

You're in a couple of gigging bands, you have god knows how many effects, so why not use them? Isn't that the point of effects? 

Lol - "Isn't that the point of effects?"  There you go again - that same mindset.

Nope it absolutely isn't necessarily the point of effects. There are LOADS of effects users who enjoy just using them at home for creative sonic fun. And there are loads of bass players who are happy to play live without using any effects.

I probably play 5 to 8 times as much at home as I do live with my bands (in a normal year, of course) - that's just me. My home gear context is equally, if not more important, to me as when playing with my two bands. Others will play entirely at home. Whilst plenty folk will be primarily focussed on how they sound with their bands. It's all valid bass playing and how and where we use our gear is up to us and frankly should be no one else's business. 

As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm just challenging the thinking that says band use is somehow superior to a "bedroom bassist"'s use of their gear at home and the band is the only valid place where gear should be evaluated. We see it all the time when folk say "yeah, yeah...BUT you haven't tried it in mix" as if to imply that their fellow BC'ers opinion is not valid until that hurdle has been jumped. 

Edited by Al Krow
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1 hour ago, molan said:

I had exactly this with a TC Electronics RH450. I really liked the idea of setting up 3 core tones for my functions band gigging and spent a long time working on them at home (at loud volumes). 

Took it on a gig and it was the worst live sound I’ve ever had. Complete tone sucker.  I was using a pair of really good Bag End cabs as well. 

Sold it the next day 😂

Stomp has been a revelation - sounds great at home and with he band!

Do you think that was just the 450 Barrie? I had the 450 for a while and liked it for the features but it was paired with the rs cabs, I didn’t have any issues (not really in a function band though at the time) ... I upgraded to the 750 and had the core tones set on the 3 channels as you did and again no problems at all. I didn’t find the tone was sucked out.
Both since long gone in favour of the berg amp though. 

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5 minutes ago, bassfan said:

Do you think that was just the 450 Barrie? I had the 450 for a while and liked it for the features but it was paired with the rs cabs, I didn’t have any issues (not really in a function band though at the time) ... I upgraded to the 750 and had the core tones set on the 3 channels as you did and again no problems at all. I didn’t find the tone was sucked out.
Both since long gone in favour of the berg amp though. 

Paul, out of interest, how many gigs would you say you did with no issues (and in fact a great result!) from your TC RH450?

Edited by Al Krow

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The 450... 60 odd. Probably not the size of Barrie’s gigs though mainly pubs/clubs  😃I only twice had any major issues but I think that was specific to the venues/stage. I preferred the punch clarity of the 750.

Sorry. Derailing the Helix thread! Love my hxfx too! 

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19 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Lol - "Isn't that the point of effects?"  There you go again - that same mindset.

Nope it absolutely isn't necessarily the point of effects. There are LOADS of effects users who enjoy just using them at home for creative sonic fun. And there are loads of bass players who are happy to play live without using any effects.

 

Agreed. The (my) original point was, the settings that work at home may well not work for a band, and its helpful for others to know if they do or not. Not that you have to use them live. 

Ive had pedals that are quite hissy at high-ish gain, and I’d say they were unusable because you can hear it, when at home with nothing else making a noise. If using it with a band you may never hear it. So you could say to someone its too hissy, but without clarification might give the wrong impression. Thats just a weak example, but it did happen to me. 

 

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1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

Agreed. The (my) original point was, the settings that work at home may well not work for a band, and its helpful for others to know if they do or not. Not that you have to use them live. 

Ive had pedals that are quite hissy at high-ish gain, and I’d say they were unusable because you can hear it, when at home with nothing else making a noise. If using it with a band you may never hear it. So you could say to someone its too hissy, but without clarification might give the wrong impression. Thats just a weak example, but it did happen to me. 

 

the "I bought this new 800w head and sent it back the next day cos the fan kicked in" thing you see sometimes

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Out of interest, how many of you have been using your Helix's in a live setting, especially those with the HXFX,  Have they been working out well, and if so what effects have you been using?

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Just now, PatrickJ said:

Out of interest, how many of you have been using your Helix's in a live setting, especially those with the HXFX,  Have they been working out well, and if so what effects have you been using?

I use mine live... got a couple of patches set up for different songs and run the compressor depending on the amp I’m using. Works well 😃👍🏻

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6 minutes ago, bassfan said:

I use mine live... got a couple of patches set up for different songs and run the compressor depending on the amp I’m using. Works well 😃👍🏻

Would you mind sharing which songs and what modules you're using for them?  Which compressor do you favour?

 

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4 minutes ago, PatrickJ said:

Would you mind sharing which songs and what modules you're using for them?  Which compressor do you favour?

 

I’ll get some pictures tomorrow and ping them over 👍🏻

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29 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

the "I bought this new 800w head and sent it back the next day cos the fan kicked in" thing you see sometimes

Yeah. My MB800 has a loud fan. In fact i can hear it at rehearsals between songs sometimes. Never been an issue at gigs though. 

 

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10 minutes ago, PatrickJ said:

Would you mind sharing which songs and what modules you're using for them?  Which compressor do you favour?

 

have you found Dr Tonelab on facebook yet? 

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7 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

have you found Dr Tonelab on facebook yet? 

nooo, I'm too old for Facebook.   Social Media died along with MySpace for me :)

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3 minutes ago, PatrickJ said:

nooo, I'm too old for Facebook.   Social Media died along with MySpace for me :)

try this... some good starting places. the guy who makes them plays a Yamaha Sheehan thingy so modern sounding P http://drtonelab.com 

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+1 ^^

And if you ever can't find Luke's post down the line, I put that Dr Tone link on the OP a while back. He's pretty well rated by Helix users. (Although I have no idea whether he uses any of his patches in a band context 😁)

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10 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Lol - "Isn't that the point of effects?"  There you go again - that same mindset.

Nope it absolutely isn't necessarily the point of effects. There are LOADS of effects users who enjoy just using them at home for creative sonic fun. And there are loads of bass players who are happy to play live without using any effects.

I probably play 5 to 8 times as much at home as I do live with my bands (in a normal year, of course) - that's just me. My home gear context is equally, if not more important, to me as when playing with my two bands. Others will play entirely at home. Whilst plenty folk will be primarily focussed on how they sound with their bands. It's all valid bass playing and how and where we use our gear is up to us and frankly should be no one else's business. 

As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm just challenging the thinking that says band use is somehow superior to a "bedroom bassist"'s use of their gear at home and the band is the only valid place where gear should be evaluated. We see it all the time when folk say "yeah, yeah...BUT you haven't tried it in mix" as if to imply that their fellow BC'ers opinion is not valid until that hurdle has been jumped. 

How you use your gear is, of course, your prerogative. But if you're having so much creative fun at home, surely the next evolutionary step is to build on that fun with other musicians? Bounce ideas off one another, create new and exciting music together, and share it with a crowd? 

Personally, I buy gear to use with the band, but I see myself as a gigging musician more than a bedroom bassist. But, there is absolutely NO air of superiority or elitism from my point of view, just curiosity. I don't know where you've got that idea from or why you keep alluding to it. 

 

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57 minutes ago, Osiris said:

How you use your gear is, of course, your prerogative. But if you're having so much creative fun at home, surely the next evolutionary step is to build on that fun with other musicians? Bounce ideas off one another, create new and exciting music together, and share it with a crowd? 

Personally, I buy gear to use with the band, but I see myself as a gigging musician more than a bedroom bassist. But, there is absolutely NO air of superiority or elitism from my point of view, just curiosity. I don't know where you've got that idea from or why you keep alluding to it. 

Glad to hear. I think the points have been well and clearly made on both sides of the argument now.

Interested in who's had a look at update 3.0 in any detail and are there any other patches to recommend checking out, other than the polyphonic pitch shifting?

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@PatrickJ

Hi I was using my Stomp at gigs both in conjunction with my amp and direct with IEM. I also use it at home for a lot of my playing. I’ll flip between the stomp and my plug ins depending on what I want to sound like but generally the stomp gets used the most even if some of my bass amp plug ins sound equally as satisfying! The oto biscuit and subharmonic synths win on the plug in side for those type of effects for my preference but you’d expect them to be good. I digress...

Circling back to the earlier chat about elitism...
This whole elitist stuff appears to stem from the absurd notion of folk, me included and maybe patient zero, encouraging folk in this instance the OP to use their gear out at gigs with their band. I feel implicated in this partly from my preference to use stuff with a band even though most of my playing is at home via my rig or headphones where I can really dive down into the nuance of things - I love running basses into my graphic eq and looking at the sonic thumbprint of basses/pick ups, I like to swap out pick ups and tinker with the core sound of my instrument and I’ve even got a full professional route in my go to p bass where I’ve experimented with TBird pick ups, reverse p position and maybe even a MMStyle with split coils and series parallel wiring next... For me that’s pretty bedroom/geeky/nuance but it’ll definitely make the gig and be heard in context rather than a simply bedroom experiment.
 

Many posts and threads have been started and when asked how did those sounds work on the gig there appears to be this sense that somehow it was a personal attack to ask how the gear was sounding?  There’s been page upon page upon page written about effects and parameters and what’s your favourite this preset or that preset ad infinitum and yes as ‘young’ players or folks new to a certain effect that’s all fair and ‘useful’ to a point - for getting a starting sound to build on etc. With most effects we all, over time, acknowledge that the context and the way in which we use gear is all different especially from bedroom to gig - be it our attack, our sonic preferences to the music and types of rooms or bedrooms we’re playing them in. It’s no more elitist to ask how something sounds on a gig as it is to own a ‘lawyer’ rig and I speak as someone who owned a Dingwall Super P and Monique amp. Oh and they both sounded great on the 5 years worth of gigs I used them on if anyone is interested.

The idea that this is a form of elitism humours me (but I don’t think the OP genuinely means this) as I feel that elitism  can take many forms and to isolate the notion that players who want to use gear on a gig is elitist is again a bit absurd. Excited to hear if a pedal hits the spot live? Yes sure but elitist? Elitist is maybe not the correct way to describe ones desire to gig their gear or to hear others experience of gigging gear. It is not out of a sense of superiority that I gig gear nor is it my belief that by doing so I’m a better class of bassist. I would associate elitism with other things. Maybe the idea of pride or privilege to be associated with a particular group: the gigging bassist->subcategory who uses their gear->subcategory with a band - not that special really but being in a particular club/subset with like minded individuals where the 'price of admission' creates a bit of a barrier to entry then maybe...

Elitism of ideas or opinion - where someone feels their views or opinion have a certain significance to the point of creating multiple user names/accounts to comment on and reinforce their opinions and to diffuse or derail those with opposite views. I stated a thread a while back on multiple accounts being held by a single user and the usual banter of split personality etc cropped up but no one thought to discuss the ‘elitist’ angle and that the notion of ones own self importance, to indulge in conversation with themselves,  to control the narrative on multiple fronts, actively backing up ideas and opinions while dismissing others. To be fair now it’s straying off more into narcissism or maybe it’s a ‘social experiment’, a deeper treatise into something far more cerebral? I’d be happy to look at the subject a little deeper but as with most of these things the motivation is usually pretty basic. I’m no expert but with 20+ years working in mental health/forensic psychiatry I definitely have some opinions on it. 

TL;DR version

This debate of gigging gear versus bedroom use is one I care little for and I’ll still encourage folks to use their gear live if they ever get the chance to. If that’s not your preference then that’s grand but don’t inflate it into something it’s not. Written word on an Internet forum will never captured the nuance of a civilised conversation and more often than not lead to unnecessary bickering. 

Edited by krispn
Taking the heat off poor PatrickJ :)
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I’ve not been able to usage HX Edit from 2.92 -3.00.0 so can’t access the new stuff. Still working on it 🙄 each time I download the 3.00.0 version when I open the package it’s 2.92. I’ve raised it with Line 6. Im running Mac OS but haven’t updated to Big Sur as I have other stuff which won’t run until update patches are released. If anyone has HX Edit 3.0 for Mac and has successfully opened it feel Free to dm me and send me the package and I’ll try it!

Edited by krispn

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13 hours ago, bassfan said:

Do you think that was just the 450 Barrie? I had the 450 for a while and liked it for the features but it was paired with the rs cabs, I didn’t have any issues

 

13 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Paul, out of interest, how many gigs would you say you did with no issues (and in fact a great result!) from your TC RH450?

I was thinkin this. I have done.. from my reckoning, 130+ gigs with my 450 and I am not really thinking of changing it any time soon. Again, mine has either been with the RS cabs (2 x 112) or the BC cab. Probably done about 10 gigs with my Ashdown CTM100, probably a better tone overall but loses on the Clean volume / weight / convenience scale.

 

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On 22/11/2020 at 12:27, dave_bass5 said:

For years i would gig without rehearsals, as we were gigging every weekend, so anything i brought was taken from home to gigs and played. At home most always sounded great. I kept getting disappointed at how the pedals sounded at gigs though, but never really had the opportunity to get them right (no sound check’s  etc). It was only when the new line up started to rehearse more then gig that I’d  have a proper opportunity to play with effects (and rigs). I found that what worked at home (or mostly at work where I could set a small rig up at the weekends) wasn't ideal for band use. Sometimes it was just the settings, but a few times it was perfect until i played with the band, then I just couldn't get them to work. Things like phasers/chorus/Filter etc sound great in isolation, but ive found them to need quite a bit of tweaking to sound right with a loud band and at volume. They just seem to get lost sometimes. Maybe its just me though. I can never play loud at home.

These days, while i appreciate others giving reviews of what soemthing cant do, i reserve judgment on how well it works for me until ive used it with the band (unless it’s just for home use). YouTube etc is good for the technical reviews and overviews, but ive never found something coming out of a pair of hifi speakers will match what comes out of my rig anyway.

It's for this reason my band sometimes has the odd 'Technical rehearsal" when we need to try new gear or new sounds and ideas. It does help trying these things at gig level, with our gig rigs in a band context. If everyone is in the same mindset of being listening to the actual sound and being aware of what everyone else is going you can be more critical on the actual tones everyone is producing rather than concentrating on the the song and playing the right notes.

I don't play loud at home either, but I've gotten better at dealing in usable sounds at home lately since going fully frfr. I initially bought a Headrush 112 for gigging with rather than plugging my helix into my old bass amp and cab, and I used headphones or my little Blackstar Core ID Beam set to 'flat' mode for home use. I was getting closer than with my old rig, but it still wasn't quite there.  What made the difference was getting the smaller Headrush 108 for home use and rehearsals (seriously, this little things kicks serious derrière at full band rehearsals). Tonally, the two frfr speakers are very, very similar and my results are far more consistent.  I also engage the contour switch on them at home which boosts the bass and treble and helps factor in fletcher munson loudness effect. And, playing along to tracks in via the spare speaker input also help gauge my tonal mix.

Reminds me of my fuzz quest too. I was so disappointed in the big muff PI and it's quirks that I replaced it with an MXR Bass Fuzz Deluxe which had proper dry and wet controls.  What a waste of money.  It simply didn't have enough volume in the fuzz part - you turn up the dry to maintain unity volume and the fuzz disappeared in a band mix. Ended up getting a cheap Mooer Fog fuzz which worked really well.

This is what I love about the Helix thought. If any effect doesn't sit quite right in the mix, you can add eq etc to it and mangle it into shape without having to buy extra pedals and rewire a pedalboard every gig.  Even better is the ability to tweak effect settings on the fly, with your feet, whilst you're playing! The future is now.

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So circa 200 flawless gigs (well maybe not all of the playing all of the time 😁) from just two of you with the TC RH 450 - good to hear!

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