Bridgehouse Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Given how iconic the B15 is.. and I think I know the answer to this already, but hey.. How come there aren't many cheaper smaller wattage all valve heads out there? A quick eBay trawl will list many many guitar valve heads under £300 or so - but for Bass.. nope. Now I know that for live use those 30-100w will be, er, less than ideal, but I don't get why more valve heads weren't made in the 70's, 80's 90's and up to today to fit into that "at home or in the studio" brief.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 FWIW I've an old (70's?) Carlsbro 60W head. I doubt it was designed as a bass amp, but I used it as my main amp for bass through most of the '80's. Still sounds nice, and more than loud enough for most pub-type gigs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, barkin said: FWIW I've an old (70's?) Carlsbro 60W head. I doubt it was designed as a bass amp, but I used it as my main amp for bass through most of the '80's. Still sounds nice, and more than loud enough for most pub-type gigs. Interesting.. I wonder how many guitar heads could be used as good sounding bass amps. Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Ashdown Little B`stard, or CTM - when I used one - can`t remember which one tho - I was knocked out by how good the sound was. Available at 15 or 30 watts I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 55 minutes ago, Lozz196 said: Ashdown Little B`stard, or CTM - when I used one - can`t remember which one tho - I was knocked out by how good the sound was. Available at 15 or 30 watts I think. +1 to the LB30/CTM30. Great amps. I've owned both guises, and the matching, extremely rare LB212. Probably my favourite rig I've owned, but not really giggable in the bands I was in with no PA support. Not sold on the CTM15 yet. As you turn up the gain it cuts a LOT of bass so there's a few mods I'd like to make to mine which I'll report back on. It's not a full valve amp (despite what Ashdown may have said about it in advertising/interview), but a solid state front end and valve power amp, no DI. With gain all the way down it sounds very nice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lozz196 said: Ashdown Little B`stard, or CTM - when I used one - can`t remember which one tho - I was knocked out by how good the sound was. Available at 15 or 30 watts I think. 10 minutes ago, Bigwan said: +1 to the LB30/CTM30. Great amps. I've owned both guises, and the matching, extremely rare LB212. Probably my favourite rig I've owned, but not really giggable in the bands I was in with no PA support. +2! The LB30 and CTM30 are, I believe, the same amp in different cases. I have the former at home, and it's superb for recording. Also holds its own surprisingly well at *smaller* gigs, especially with a decent cab. PS: Its bigger brother, the CTM-100, is definitely powerful enough for live use. I actually managed to drown out our guitarist at our last gig! Edited July 24, 2018 by EliasMooseblaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, EliasMooseblaster said: +2! The LB30 and CTM30 are, I believe, the same amp in different cases. I have the former at home, and it's superb for recording. Also holds its own surprisingly well at *smaller* gigs, especially with a decent cab. PS: Its bigger brother, the CTM-100, is definitely powerful enough for live use. I actually managed to drown out our guitarist at our last gig! They are identical amps, yes. I preferred the look of the LB30 myself... I never gigged mine without PA support - rehearsal volumes told the tale well enough! The CTM100 is on my bucket list (if I ever get back gigging again!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bigwan said: They are identical amps, yes. I preferred the look of the LB30 myself... I never gigged mine without PA support - rehearsal volumes told the tale well enough! The CTM100 is on my bucket list (if I ever get back gigging again!) Oh hell yes, the LB30 is without doubt the best looking amp I've ever owned! I always heavily qualify my claims that it was powerful enough to gig, as the gritty, mid-focused tone I use to fill the space between a loud drummer and a lone guitarist in relatively small venues is not going to work for everyone. But yeah, if you ever get your hands on a 100... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I use the Ampeg PF-50t which if the retro stylings are to your tastes is great for a not too heavy and more controllable volume setting. I've had bigger in the past, I've used Class D stuff but this really ticks the boxes for me. I find it puzzling that it isn't a more popular head. I guess a few people are put off by the look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 53 minutes ago, Cat Burrito said: I use the Ampeg PF-50t which if the retro stylings are to your tastes is great for a not too heavy and more controllable volume setting. I've had bigger in the past, I've used Class D stuff but this really ticks the boxes for me. I find it puzzling that it isn't a more popular head. I guess a few people are put off by the look. I'd love one! BUT, and this goes for most of the available low power options, they're quite pricey. I think that puts folk off the whole low power valve amp thing. Most are not REALLY giggable in every situation without PA support so how much use are they really when a lot of producers nowadays just want a decent DI signal to fiddle with "in the box"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 56 minutes ago, Cat Burrito said: I use the Ampeg PF-50t which if the retro stylings are to your tastes is great for a not too heavy and more controllable volume setting. I've had bigger in the past, I've used Class D stuff but this really ticks the boxes for me. I find it puzzling that it isn't a more popular head. I guess a few people are put off by the look. That are nice - I’ve heard a couple and they sound good too - as does the 20w version - however, they don’t quite meet my original question brief, as they are still a lot of cash compared to a guitar equivalent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bigwan said: I'd love one! BUT, and this goes for most of the available low power options, they're quite pricey. I think that puts folk off the whole low power valve amp thing. Most are not REALLY giggable in every situation without PA support so how much use are they really when a lot of producers nowadays just want a decent DI signal to fiddle with "in the box"... Perhaps I've been lucky, but with Cherry White we've been fortunate enough to find recording engineers who are to happy to put a mic in front of a bass cab (at least one has even favoured the approach). Most of them have taken a dry DI signal as well for everything <100Hz, but by either re-amping or putting the amp in a different room, I've had the pleasure of recording with a vintage Fender Bassman, a B15, and my own LB30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 To be fair, I’m not so bothered about DI - for a low wattage head it would be in the studio anyway and a decent engineer will be so used to mic’ing guitar amps that a small wattage bass amp and cab should be no issue at all.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Go looking for a 1970s WEM Dominator Bass 25. The model number is hopelessly misleading. It's a 17W (usually misdescribed as 15W) all-valve open-backed amp fitted with a 15" Celestion rather than the more common 12" Celestion. There is no "25" anywhere. In good nick, these sound every bit as good as a B15 and normally go (on eBay) for less than £400. Don't buy a Dommie with the 12" Celestion, it just won't work for bass. Especially don't buy any of the smaller WEM combos, Westminster etc. If you really want just the head, then go looking for a Selmer 50W PA head. These turn up all the time on eBay, all-valve 4-channel PA heads from the 70s. You can just use whichever channel sounds best, or you can bi-amp with them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) What Jack said. The Dominator, and Dominator Bass are the same amp with a different speaker. 12" in the Dominator, 15" in the Dominator Bass. There's also the Power Musette mk2, which is again basically the same amp, but fitted with a different (dual cone?) speaker that was supposedly better suited to keys. I had a PM mk2 - only sold it because, to get that nice valve break-up, it had to be somewhat cranked, which was stupid loud... Edited July 24, 2018 by barkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 I guess I’m quite surprised there aren’t more b15 clones about - or heads based on or like it, or relatively similar at least.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 Given the cult like status of the b15 and the fact it’s alleged to be on a lot of recordings from back in the day, you’d have thought that the modern trend for small simple no bells and whistles amps would have produced a few bass offerings at least. If I want a real 60’s or early 70’s b15 I would have to pay over £2k - and a stand-alone head would cost well under £500 to produce and give a pretty good equivalent tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afterimage Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I have a nice Traynor yba200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 Lol, I'm not sure that Traynor meets the small wattage or price criteria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The59Sound Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 What's the point of having a valve head for live use unless you mic it? Recording, yes - I get it. I love them for that. But live? Every time the sound guy goes for a DI signal. Does anyone here mic their cab for every gig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, The59Sound said: What's the point of having a valve head for live use unless you mic it? Recording, yes - I get it. I love them for that. But live? Every time the sound guy goes for a DI signal. Does anyone here mic their cab for every gig? The Ashdowns mentioned above all have a post-preamp DI socket if the sound guy wants a DI signal. That, and the scale of gigs I'm typically playing tend to be vocal-only PAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The59Sound Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Damn, didn't know those types of gig still existed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Not cheap, but not silly expensive - 100w all-tube, and absolutely glorious: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 My original point is kinda being borne out by all the suggestions - large, pricey amps at the more “boutique” end of the market. My original question was around the lack of low end valve offerings for bass - where’s the vox night train and other lunchbox style no-effects less-than-50-watt offerings from mainstream manufacturers? Ashdown seem to have had a go - but discontinued theirs - is it just that bassists today just don’t want that sort of sound for recording any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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