EliasMooseblaster Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Bridgehouse said: Ashdown seem to have had a go - but discontinued theirs - is it just that bassists today just don’t want that sort of sound for recording any more? The LB30 wasn't discontinued so much as rebadged - the CTM30 is the same 30W all valve head in a different case, and if anything I think Ashdown are trying to expand upon the design (see the "Little Stubby" variant they recently released). You do raise a good point, though - small guitar amps have probably done well because the majority of guitarists still ultimately want a valve tone, whereas bassists are split across more different camps. Some of us want valve sounds, some of us want tight, clean Class D-type sounds, and various shades in between, so the demand probably isn't as evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, EliasMooseblaster said: The LB30 wasn't discontinued so much as rebadged - the CTM30 is the same 30W all valve head in a different case, and if anything I think Ashdown are trying to expand upon the design (see the "Little Stubby" variant they recently released). You do raise a good point, though - small guitar amps have probably done well because the majority of guitarists still ultimately want a valve tone, whereas bassists are split across more different camps. Some of us want valve sounds, some of us want tight, clean Class D-type sounds, and various shades in between, so the demand probably isn't as evident. I wonder if the Class D revolution stunted the possibilities because bass players think "valve tone" = "Ampeg grind" and nothing more? It's a shame - I totally get the whole small size and weight heads and cabs for live use - but they can (to my ears) sound a bit sterile for recording. I like the idea of a bit of warm tube tone for studio use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Probably has a lot to do with it - admittedly one of my tonal holy grails is "Live at Leeds," but I'm not always going for such an in-your-face tone, and the warmth and fullness of a more moderate valve tone is hard to beat - at least to my ears. There's no way the LB30/CTM30 is going to compete with a Trace Elf on weight, for example, but in terms of being small and portable it's the kind of thing I can carry to the bus stop in one hand without any trouble. And not to do down the Class Ds by any means. I've played through some tiny little lightweight amps at jams and suchlike, and some of them sound really nice; they just wouldn't be my first choice from a tone point of view. Does make me tempted to try out the Little Stubby though - I seem to remember @Merton speaking very highly of the one he tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 I agree. I have tried some really good Class D’s and have an EICH head which is exceptional. Live I tend to use a Preamp/DI with an FRFR and so very non-traditional. But a lot of these choices are around weight, portability, setup time, reliability and flexibility. In the studio this doesn’t apply anywhere near as much - I really would like to have the option to have some real valve tone available in the studio - and lower watts are better for this if I want it cranked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Not sure why this hasn't been mentioned already, but for bass players the hybrid valve preamp + Class D power stage are usually a better (and much lighter) solution than any all-valve head. I have an all-valve Matamp GT100 and a GB Shuttle 9.2. The Matamp is way "classier" as a thing to stick on a cabinet, more visible, cooler to look at, look-at-me-I'm-old-skool sort of thing. It also sounds better than the Shuttle (IMHO). What do I actually take to gigs? The Shuttle of course. It weighs less than one-fifteenth of the Matamp, it doesn't generate more heat than an oil-filled radiator, and it's way more flexible in terms of EQ should the room need it. Now if I was routinely playing through a 410 stacked on top of a 115 then perhaps I'd need to take the Matamp simply to complete "the look", but these days I routinely have a Crazy 88 for my backline and the real volume comes from FoH. Yes, even in a pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 @Happy Jack yes.. but.. you’ve not addressed the original point tho Ignore looks. Ignore weight. Ignore practicality. Ignore anything boutique or custom. Ignore gigging and using outside a studio. Why have the major manufacturers of amps made lots and lots of lunchbox style simple and cheap valve amps for guitar but not for bass? Is it because bass players don’t want them, or because it’s percieved to not be a sound we want or some other reason? I would say that classic sound is just as desirable for bass as it is for guitar - if it isn’t why are there so many amps, preamps and DI’s advertised with that “classic tone” being emulated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Economy of scale has to play a part I would imagine... You can get a 5w all valve guitar amp for under a ton because guitarists are, as we all know, ten a penny... Something I'd like to explore beyond the initial 5 minutes I've given it, is my Harley Benton 5 watt combo (the one that looks suspiciously like the Epiphone Valve Jr). I bet it'd sound better than OK into a bass extension cab like my barefaced Two10 with the combo's internal speaker bypassed. It's a sweet sounding little amp for guitar, especially with a nice strat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bigwan said: Economy of scale has to play a part I would imagine... You can get a 5w all valve guitar amp for under a ton because guitarists are, as we all know, ten a penny... Something I'd like to explore beyond the initial 5 minutes I've given it, is my Harley Benton 5 watt combo (the one that looks suspiciously like the Epiphone Valve Jr). I bet it'd sound better than OK into a bass extension cab like my barefaced Two10 with the combo's internal speaker bypassed. It's a sweet sounding little amp for guitar, especially with a nice strat. I bet the chassis and parts similarity is pretty high between a guitar and bass head - specially at low power. I agree to an extent about economy of scale - but it’s no where near the difference you’d think... Over in the guitar world there are guitarists aplenty with crippled backs looking on in envy at the availbility of superlight bass amps and cabs and having to shuffle around with a 40+ kg valve combo instead... If there’s enough economy of scale to make unique bass class d amps at that price point then why not valve heads? Is it because we, as players wouldn’t buy them? If a bass amp manufacturer made a sub £250 lunchbox valve head with gain, 3eq and master and a single speaker out (and nowt else) at around 20w or so - which sounded fab and gave a really nice gritty tube sound with the gain up, how many of us would think “yeah, I’ll get one for recording” ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I'n my limited experience of opening up bass amps the one thing I notice is the Transformers in a valve bass amp are usually fekking enormous. Good transformers in an amp that is likely to be designed to be punchy are expensive. They are also heavy. Perhaps to the point that a lightweight box that would do for a guitar amp just can't handle the weight. The Mesa 4:88 is a good example. Pretty small by most standards, but still surprisingly weighty. I had one. It was glorious. However the fan noise was appalling so it had to go. In hindsight I wish I had taken it to a tech to change the fan or maybe even install a 2nd one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, fretmeister said: I'n my limited experience of opening up bass amps the one thing I notice is the Transformers in a valve bass amp are usually fekking enormous. Good transformers in an amp that is likely to be designed to be punchy are expensive. They are also heavy. Perhaps to the point that a lightweight box that would do for a guitar amp just can't handle the weight. The Mesa 4:88 is a good example. Pretty small by most standards, but still surprisingly weighty. I had one. It was glorious. However the fan noise was appalling so it had to go. In hindsight I wish I had taken it to a tech to change the fan or maybe even install a 2nd one. But the b15 does what I’m describing... it’s not excessive in weight, size or chassis, it’s a classic tone and highly sought after. I find it odd that as bass players we all gravitate towards class D amps, but for modelling it’s all about those valve tones. If they are so popular for, say, Helix and so forth then why not more small valve heads for the studio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 There can't be much money in it or somebody would have done it by now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Bigwan said: There can't be much money in it or somebody would have done it by now... Yeah, I agree - but I can’t see why though. Even if just to create a cheaper entry into the “aspiration” market.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said: Does make me tempted to try out the Little Stubby though - I seem to remember @Merton speaking very highly of the one he tried. Yep. I might still accidentally buy one later this year and feign ignorance if Mrs Mert ever spots it The Ashdown CTM30/LB30 is a bloody glorious amp, such a sweet sweet tone and certainly not big or heavy. The Stubby is even smaller and equally delightful IMO. Edited July 25, 2018 by Merton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funky8884 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I may be wrong but isnt the Reddi supposed to mimic the B15 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Bridgehouse said: But the b15 does what I’m describing... it’s not excessive in weight, size or chassis, it’s a classic tone and highly sought after. I find it odd that as bass players we all gravitate towards class D amps, but for modelling it’s all about those valve tones. If they are so popular for, say, Helix and so forth then why not more small valve heads for the studio? Generally I think valve amps are over rated for bass. Valve sag does not create punch in the way a good SS can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, fretmeister said: Generally I think valve amps are over rated for bass. Valve sag does not create punch in the way a good SS can. But it creates this wall of awesomeness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Bridgehouse said: @Happy Jack yes.. but.. you’ve not addressed the original point tho Ignore looks. Ignore weight. Ignore practicality. Ignore anything boutique or custom. Ignore gigging and using outside a studio. Agreed, but the thing is that we bass players are the sensible ones in the band. That means that we don't ignore weight, don't ignore practicality, and never own kit that will be used solely in studios and absolutely never gigged! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Happy Jack said: Agreed, but the thing is that we bass players are the sensible ones in the band. That means that we don't ignore weight, don't ignore practicality, and never own kit that will be used solely in studios and absolutely never gigged! I’m def. not the sensible one in our band! And much as I hate to say it, I’d have a bass head just for recording. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 11 hours ago, Happy Jack said: Agreed, but the thing is that we bass players are the sensible ones in the band. That means that we don't ignore weight, don't ignore practicality, and never own kit that will be used solely in studios and absolutely never gigged! Sensible.... 4 rigs ago... (Yes - that's a 5000W power amp) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Yes, but they're not valve watts, are they? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 17 hours ago, Happy Jack said: Yes, but they're not valve watts, are they? For as we all know, a watt in the valve is worth two in the transistor...or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) - Edited February 27, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 On 25/07/2018 at 13:43, wateroftyne said: Not cheap, but not silly expensive - 100w all-tube, and absolutely glorious: I’ve come back to this after reading your thread on it - see if he did a 20 or 30 watt version I’d be all over that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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