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Beyond your technical ability


Nicko
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There's nothing at all wrong with copying a bass line note for note but if you have a set of 30 songs to learn by the end of the weekend, pragmatism dictates that a decent facsimile will do just fine. 

I've played in covers bands for years and there's some twiddly bits that I've spent hours getting right and some others that I've quietly ignored and played a root note. As long as you capture the essence of the thing the audience won't notice or care. The other guy played that way because he/she could... 

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14 hours ago, thepurpleblob said:

There's nothing at all wrong with copying a bass line note for note but if you have a set of 30 songs to learn by the end of the weekend, pragmatism dictates that a decent facsimile will do just fine. 

I've played in covers bands for years and there's some twiddly bits that I've spent hours getting right and some others that I've quietly ignored and played a root note. As long as you capture the essence of the thing the audience won't notice or care. The other guy played that way because he/she could... 

Yeah, no one but other bass players notice anyway.

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Learn the basic chord structure of the song first with intro, verse, chorus etc then put in some passing notes and the twiddly bits and you will get the song up and running more quickly than a linear note for note approach.

When you get to a live performance the drummer will increase the speed by 20% and all the fancy bits that you practiced will go out the window anyway.

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On 10/11/2017 at 16:21, Jimothey said:

I don’t play in a band but i try to play along with backing tracks I struggle to play more songs than I can actually play but I’m really struggling with “the trooper” I just can’t get the gallops however hard I try I’ve tried two fingers and three fingers but after I do a couple it all goes to s**t

Was it just practice that made you master it or did something seem to just click and then you could play them?

I used to do the Trooper in a covers band and struggled with the gallop, and it's come up as a suggestion for a new band so I've been giving it a go and have managed to crack it with a very minor tweak in my technique.  This may not work for you as I'm aware that I have an, ahem, unusual style (I hammer the strings with my finger tips, think John Entwistle but less developed) but if it helps, try the gallop with all four fingers. There was something in holding back my little finger that seemed to make my tendons seize up really quickly, but now that I include the little finger (which hits the strings in time with the ring finger, or close enough that you don't hear that the three is really a four) it doesn't seem to hurt and i can play the song without any issues.

As I say, may just be me. My tendon pains are a story for a different thread...

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for the topic in general, while I much prefer playing originals and writing my own bass lines, I have to admit to having learned a lot about music in general from learning how to play other people's songs.  Sometimes it's technique, but mostly it's about the choice of note and song structure, that I can understand what somebody else did in a similar circumstance and that gives me more choice than simply  playing the root in time with the rhythm guitarist.  This is particularly true about playing the guitar and chord structures.

Eventually it becomes part of your own style, and we're all magpies when it comes down to it

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On 11/10/2017 at 17:42, MartinB said:

Working out which bits you should play like the original and which bits you can alter/simplify/"make your own" is a real skill, and I don't feel like people talk about it that much. You have to learn to recognise the hooks and the iconic parts that make the song, otherwise it's can sound a bit half-arsed. It's the same for all instruments. There's a lot of genres where none of the bass parts are particularly recognisable. But if you try to play an iconic part like Another One Bites The Dust / Gimme Some Lovin' / Money / Good Times in your own "creative" way, you're going to get funny looks.

Obviously if you're doing a cover in a radically different style, it's much more like writing your own parts for an original tune.

i learn by ear and have often been given a song i knew to listen to but not play.I tend to find the important stuff like key and verse chorus and kind of adlib the rest and i often think its sound better.As for hard to suss bass i found Baker streets bass line goes missing a bit on the "so easy " bit and i made my own line up

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7 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

I used to do the Trooper in a covers band and struggled with the gallop, and it's come up as a suggestion for a new band so I've been giving it a go and have managed to crack it with a very minor tweak in my technique.  This may not work for you as I'm aware that I have an, ahem, unusual style (I hammer the strings with my finger tips, think John Entwistle but less developed) but if it helps, try the gallop with all four fingers. There was something in holding back my little finger that seemed to make my tendons seize up really quickly, but now that I include the little finger (which hits the strings in time with the ring finger, or close enough that you don't hear that the three is really a four) it doesn't seem to hurt and i can play the song without any issues.

As I say, may just be me. My tendon pains are a story for a different thread...

Thanks for the advice I’ll give it a try, How do you finger it do you do two then three then three then three then back to two? because I’ve seen it done so many different ways that it gets a bit confusing?

 

Edited by Jimothey
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On 10/11/2017 at 16:21, Jimothey said:

I don’t play in a band but i try to play along with backing tracks I struggle to play more songs than I can actually play but I’m really struggling with “the trooper” I just can’t get the gallops however hard I try I’ve tried two fingers and three fingers but after I do a couple it all goes to s**t

Was it just practice that made you master it or did something seem to just click and then you could play them?

Practice galloping fingers whenever you can. For example tapping your fingers on a table etc 

It comes natural to me. When I was a kid used mimick horse galloping sound with my fingers by tapping them on whatever suitable surface, before I heard of Maiden. Years later, I started playing  bass and The Trooper was second nature  to me at age of 16.

I would struggle with slapping though.

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On 13/11/2017 at 21:43, Jimothey said:

Thanks for the advice I’ll give it a try, How do you finger it do you do two then three then three then three then back to two? because I’ve seen it done so many different ways that it gets a bit confusing?

 

well for me, it's four then four then four then four...

I thought it was triplets all the way (apart from the twiddly bits, obvs) but I may be getting it wrong - can't say I ever tried to absolutely replicate it note for note, more that everybody seems happy with what I'm playing ...

perhaps a more dedicated Harris fan can help?

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Several comments here have referred to the principles of "Deliberate Practice" - which research has shown to be the methods adopted by top performers in classical music and some sports (and other fields)

In summary - you have to have structure and good work ethic to steadily push the boundaries. There is an excellent book on the subject - "Peak" by Anders Ericsson & Robert Pool.

 

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On 10/11/2017 at 19:32, Jimothey said:



Sorry if you thought I meant that because I try to play along with backing track I think I’m ready to join a band I know my abilities and they are at the beginner level but my goal when I feel I’m ready is to try and join a band so I’m not really over estimating my abilities

I’m quite a optimistic person so I prefer looking at it as “don’t under estimate your potential”

I would suggest trying to find an informal band and start playing with other people as soon as possible.  If you wait until you think you are ready you can end up waiting far too long. Plus playing with other musicians will help you progress so much quicker than practice alone.

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I often think it's better to simplify what you play when playing live. I've played with many amateur musicians who constantly overplay in an attempt to stand out and be heard. When you watch pro musicians their playing is usually effortless, doing just what's required. I usually do my own take on a bass line which develops the more I play it live while trying to retain the essence and feel of the original but I've always had trouble remembering stuff note for note. I think you have to do your own thing. 

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25 minutes ago, djc63 said:

I often think it's better to simplify what you play when playing live. I've played with many amateur musicians who constantly overplay in an attempt to stand out and be heard. When you watch pro musicians their playing is usually effortless, doing just what's required. I usually do my own take on a bass line which develops the more I play it live while trying to retain the essence and feel of the original but I've always had trouble remembering stuff note for note. I think you have to do your own thing. 

+1

Guys, even the top pro's, will play what is easy for them and fits into their style. If someone can play triplets with 3 fingers they will. Most of the rest of us can't do that trick so we'll adjust and play it the way we can, or if you're a guitarist or singer you'll just refuse to play a song you don't like (can't play or sing!)

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Oddly enough the songs i struggle with are by fast pick players like Kill the King - Bob Daisley and Ace of Spades by Lemmy.

Not technically difficult when broken down but the fast pace and stamina required when using my finger style was something i had to work at.

Tried playing Kill the King with a pick but i just don't have that ability to hand.

Steve Harris covers require a fair bit of stamina to keep that going for a long set list of similar styles. That's why i have a huge respect for Steve Harris. Not technically brilliant but how the hell can he play that fast for so long. Hard work i guess.

 

Dave

Edited by dmccombe7
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I was once in one of those New Faces bands & had to do their stuff off sheet music after about a couple of hours rehearsal at the venue.

Which would have been fine if I could read worth a damn. At the time I bluffed the audition.

Lucy in the sky with diamonds (the Elton John version) has a pretty straightforward pause which the bass leads back in  starting on the "and" of two.

I of course foolishly tried to read/count it like a proper player & fluffed it totally.  Sat in the hotel room that night and worked it  out in two minutes!

Sometimes it is more about the pressure you are under at the time than how difficult it really is.

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