tombboy Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 This, to me, is playing in the 'pocket'.. as tight as a gnat's arse!! IMO!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='tombboy' post='322739' date='Nov 5 2008, 03:39 PM']This, to me, is playing in the 'pocket'.. as tight as a gnat's arse!! IMO!! [/quote] Hell yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombboy Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='Merton' post='322743' date='Nov 5 2008, 03:46 PM']Hell yes.[/quote] This fella has NAILED it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 The pocket is that ideal space that notes should be dropped into for maximum groovaciousness. It has a certain depth (think accenting and dynamics), a certain width (think note length) and a certain position (think timing). I can't think of a better term for when you're really laying it down - can you? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brooks Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='tombboy' post='322739' date='Nov 5 2008, 03:39 PM']This, to me, is playing in the 'pocket'.. as tight as a gnat's arse!! IMO!! [/quote] A super-sized mega-macced +1!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) [quote name='The Burpster' post='322640' date='Nov 5 2008, 01:36 PM']'in the pocket' refers to playing tight onto the beat and not straying from it or improvisng. Listen to trad US music and very rarely will you hear the bass player deviate from what the drums are doing. Keeping in tight rythm with the drummer is 'in the pocket'. IIRC I think a deep pocket is keeping tight with teh bass drum only and playing off the beat of it.[/quote] Sorry, this explanation seems like absolute bollocks to me. Being in the pocket means being completely locked into the groove. Being deep in the pocket means the same thing - but even more so. You can be in the pocket and improvise as much as you like. Edited November 5, 2008 by The Funk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, if all the reds are in the pocket then you have to go after the colours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 In the pocket = good timing Deep in the pocket = also good timing, but even better than the previous guy, so I need a new superlative. It's a bit like A* at GCSE. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Like a great swing groove, its indefinable but, when you find it, its the BEST feeling. Its the 'magic' bit, the bit you can't buy, the bit that all the lessons you can every have and all the gear you can ever acquire won't make happen. Its the thing that some people have naturally, on the day they are born, and others spend their life making futile efforts trying to find. Its why Jeff Berlin isn't Aston 'Family Man' Barrett. Its why Steve Bailey isn't Steve Swallow. Its why Neils Henning Orsted Pederson isn't Ray Brown. Its soul. Its groove. Its the point where man and machine are operating in perfect harmony. Its why Michael Brecker and Bob Berg aren't Stan Getz and Paul Desmond. Its why Simon PHillips isn't John Bonham. Its why most people don't like jazz and why most jazz doesn't move most people. Its why Louis Armstrong is greater than Wynton Marsalis and why Slash is better than Yngwie J. Malmsteen. As Louis Armstrong once said 'if you have to ask..., you'll never know' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='322781' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:40 PM']At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, if all the reds are in the pocket then you have to go after the colours.[/quote] You sound like you're possessed by the ghost of Joseph McCarthy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='322784' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:43 PM']Like a great swing groove, its indefinable but, when you find it, its the BEST feeling. Its the 'magic' bit, the bit you can't buy, the bit that all the lessons you can every have and all the gear you can ever acquire won't make happen. Its the thing that some people have naturally, on the day they are born, and others spend their life making futile efforts trying to find. Its why Jeff Berlin isn't Aston 'Family Man' Barrett. Its why Steve Bailey isn't Steve Swallow. Its why Neils Henning Orsted Pederson isn't Ray Brown. Its soul. Its groove. Its the point where man and machine are operating in perfect harmony. Its why Michael Brecker and Bob Berg aren't Stan Getz and Paul Desmond. Its why Simon PHillips isn't John Bonham. Its why most people don't like jazz and why most jazz doesn't move most people. Its why Louis Armstrong is greater than Wynton Marsalis and why Slash is better than Yngwie J. Malmsteen. As Louis Armstrong once said 'if you have to ask..., you'll never know'[/quote] I'm sorry if I'm reading this wrongly but are you saying that if you don't like jazz then you don't have it? Like somone once said "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='Delberthot' post='322792' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:55 PM']I'm sorry if I'm reading this wrongly but are you saying that if you don't like jazz then you don't have it? Like somone once said "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny"[/quote] I think you're reading it wrong. And that someone was Frank Zappa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='322784' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:43 PM']Like a great swing groove, its indefinable but, when you find it, its the BEST feeling. Its the 'magic' bit, the bit you can't buy, the bit that all the lessons you can every have and all the gear you can ever acquire won't make happen. Its the thing that some people have naturally, on the day they are born, and others spend their life making futile efforts trying to find. Its why Jeff Berlin isn't Aston 'Family Man' Barrett. Its why Steve Bailey isn't Steve Swallow. Its why Neils Henning Orsted Pederson isn't Ray Brown. Its soul. Its groove. Its the point where man and machine are operating in perfect harmony. Its why Michael Brecker and Bob Berg aren't Stan Getz and Paul Desmond. Its why Simon PHillips isn't John Bonham. Its why most people don't like jazz and why most jazz doesn't move most people. Its why Louis Armstrong is greater than Wynton Marsalis and why Slash is better than Yngwie J. Malmsteen. As Louis Armstrong once said 'if you have to ask..., you'll never know'[/quote] Ho ho ho. Don't get them started, Bilbo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='322778' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:35 PM']Sorry, this explanation seems like absolute bollocks to me. Being in the pocket means being completely locked into the groove. Being deep in the pocket means the same thing - but even more so. You can be in the pocket and improvise as much as you like.[/quote] Whilst I respect your opinion....... READ what I put...... [color="#0000FF"][i]Listen to trad US music and very rarely will you hear the bass player deviate from what the drums are doing. Keeping in tight rythm with the drummer is 'in the pocket'. [/i][/color] The vast majority of US music the bass player does just that, stays locked in. I'm not saying its right, I'm not saying its what bass players do everywhere else and it ceratinly isnt used in Jazz circles. The saying "in the pocket" originated from Southern origin players where rock and roll originated and refers to being locked into the tempo as a group. PLying outside the pocket is improv IN US TERMS, and that what the OP asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='The Burpster' post='322804' date='Nov 5 2008, 05:12 PM']Whilst I respect your opinion....... READ what I put...... [color="#0000FF"][i]Listen to trad US music and very rarely will you hear the bass player deviate from what the drums are doing. Keeping in tight rythm with the drummer is 'in the pocket'. [/i][/color] The vast majority of US music the bass player does just that, stays locked in. I'm not saying its right, I'm not saying its what bass players do everywhere else and it ceratinly isnt used in Jazz circles. The saying "in the pocket" originated from Southern origin players where rock and roll originated and refers to being locked into the tempo as a group. PLying outside the pocket is improv IN US TERMS, and that what the OP asked.[/quote] I'm coming across as rude and dismissive which I don't want to be but I completely disagree with you. Reading your last post I think we have VERY different ideas of the meanings of the terms "tempo", "improvise" and being "locked in". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantdosleepy Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='322784' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:43 PM']Like a great swing groove, its indefinable but, when you find it, its the BEST feeling. Its the 'magic' bit, the bit you can't buy, the bit that all the lessons you can every have and all the gear you can ever acquire won't make happen. Its the thing that some people have naturally, on the day they are born, and others spend their life making futile efforts trying to find. Its why Jeff Berlin isn't Aston 'Family Man' Barrett. Its why Steve Bailey isn't Steve Swallow. Its why Neils Henning Orsted Pederson isn't Ray Brown. Its soul. Its groove. Its the point where man and machine are operating in perfect harmony. Its why Michael Brecker and Bob Berg aren't Stan Getz and Paul Desmond. Its why Simon PHillips isn't John Bonham. Its why most people don't like jazz and why most jazz doesn't move most people. Its why Louis Armstrong is greater than Wynton Marsalis and why Slash is better than Yngwie J. Malmsteen. As Louis Armstrong once said 'if you have to ask..., you'll never know'[/quote] I think this is a pretty good description. Except for the bit about jazz - jazz and notjazz both have equal pocket opportunities. Nice one Bilbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6h5g Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='Rusty Shackleford' post='322674' date='Nov 5 2008, 02:11 PM']but that dosent make sense? suley GEAR AQUiSTION SYNDROME would indicate you can't stop Aquiring gear?[/quote] ha thats what i thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 I just found this quote, which I think sums it up quite nicely - [quote]The phrase “in the pocket” is used to describe something or someone playing in such a way that the groove is very solid and with a great feel. When a drummer keeps a good metronomic pulse, often referred to as keeping time, and makes the groove feel really good, and maintains this feel for an extended period of time, never wavering, this is often referred to as a deep pocket… Today, the term “in the pocket” has broadened a bit, suggesting that if two musicians (usually the bass player and the drummer) are feeling the downbeats together, feeling and placing beat “one” at the exact same time, they are said to be “in the pocket.” Whether you are playing ahead (front) of the beat, or behind (back) of the beat, or right on top (middle) of the beat, as long as two musicians (ie. bassist and drummer) feel the downbeat at the same time, they’ll be in the pocket. Many people feel that the question is not so much what the pocket is as much as how you know when you’ve achieved it. To the musician, it feels like the music is playing itself, as though everything has merged together … all the rhythmic parts being played by one instrument.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve A Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='lateralus462' post='322659' date='Nov 5 2008, 01:53 PM']What a stupid f**king expression.[/quote] Ha ha ha!!!!!!! Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='urb' post='322675' date='Nov 5 2008, 02:12 PM']Um, not really - it's a good way of saying; "he's right in the groove" etc - it's been around for years and nothing to do with being a mega-muso - John Entwhistle had a great pocket groove, as does Paul MacCartney, as did James Jamerson, Jaco - Billy Sheehan can grind a great funky line as can Flea... Etc etc M[/quote] I'm lot sure we can let you off with "in the groove" either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) Unliek some great bass playing, our discussions are rarely "in the pocket"! Edited November 5, 2008 by Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve A Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='322781' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:40 PM']At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, if all the reds are in the pocket then you have to go after the colours.[/quote] HA HA HA!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve A Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='322782' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:40 PM']In the pocket = good timing Deep in the pocket = also good timing, but even better than the previous guy, so I need a new superlative. It's a bit like A* at GCSE. S.P.[/quote] HHHAAAAA HAAAA!! Stop it now, you're hurting me. There are some funny buggers on here, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='322782' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:40 PM']In the pocket = good timing Deep in the pocket = also good timing, but even better than the previous guy, so I need a new superlative. It's a bit like A* at GCSE. S.P.[/quote] Check out funkmunky's stuff on his myspace. Exquisite timing. So down, he's in the turn-up. Edited November 6, 2008 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassMunkee Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 F*kin Chr1st On A Byke there's some serious techno-gash about. It does indubitably [sp. can't be 4rsed] sound like you're having a quick one off the wrist, tho. I always thought it was a rubbish descriptor. Whereas of course Pile Of Unwanted Waste is a rubbish descriptor. Ho ho...sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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