Customs charge rip-off! Post Office! Grrr!

[Marc S]

I recently ordered a set of "Weed Whacker" synthetic gut strings for my double bass. I want to try to do some more slap style playing on upright, and though my preferred Spirocore Weich strings are fairly low tension for a metal string - I thought at just over £16 sterling a set, I'd at least give these a try, or put them on my EUB to try them out in the 1st place.

Ordered them from a shop on ebay, who quickly messaged me back, and the postage cost from the US seemed reasonable enough to me - though there was that usual phrase at the bottom of the postage section about possibly incurring customs charges - fair enough, I would expect that (though many US music shops now work that out and incorporate it in to your final total). Having recently bought something else from the US, at around £50 sterling, I paid about £6 or £7....

But this time, an item costing just over £16 incurred an £11 charge! I was gobsmacked
So I proceeded to ask the guy in the Post Office / Parcelforce collection depot how I might go about complaining, all I got was "I couldn't care less SIR!" and "Look, do you want this, or shall I chuck it in the bin?"

The more I tried to speak with the guy, the louder and more aggressive he got. His suggestion was that I find a brick wall and talk to that - I've used this depot before, and generally always preferred to use Post Office and Parcelforce, as I've found them to be OK.

Is this the friendly face of our now privatised Post Office I wonder?

The guy's I.D. Badge was turned around and tucked into his shirt, and there was clearly no way he was going to tell me his name - but I've complained by email - now wondering whether my mail will go missing in future?

How do I go about complaining about such a massive surcharge on imported goods? Or are we to expect this sort of customs charge at over 60% of the value of the goods in future?

I've often felt uneasy at using couriers for sending things like instruments and amps in the post, but I'm now thinking I don't ever want to send anything, or order something by post again. I think I'm gonna stick to buying from a shop I'm actually physically stood in....

Cheers all

PS. Are there any UK shops that sell these Weedwhackers, for future reference?

[RhysP]

There's nothing to complain about as far as the charges are concerned, the £8.00 standard handling charge on top of any import charges has been in place for a while.
It sounds like you were lucky with the other package, they do get through unnoticed sometimes.

[4stringslow]

Yes, it's justified as being the cost of collecting the import charges, documenting it and passing on the import duty to HMRC. Obviously the admin involved is pretty much constant regardless of the actual package value and duty payable, but of course can be significant with low value items.

I wonder if this sort of thing will be extended to European countries when we leave the EU?

The guy at the collection desk probably deals with this sort of customer frustration every day

Having said all that, there's no excuse to be so surly when a simple explanation and, perhaps, a brief explanatory leaflet could be given instead.

[PaulWarning]

don't know how it works, I've ordered DR strings from the states on numerous occasions never been 'done' for import charges, told a bass playing colleague about them, he ordered some and got hammered with them

Edited September 8, 2016 by PaulWarning

[bartelby]

Over the last 10 years I've ordered, too, many LPs from outside of the EU. Only 2 parcels have ever incurred import duty, even though all of them have been above the threshold.

It's kind of annoying to have to pay VAT and charges that are more than the record cost. But on balance spread across the number of records I've imported it's negligible.

The guy's attitude was very much off, but he was probably having a worse day than the OP.
I find it best to have a little rant and then get on with my life.

[RhysP]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1473332317' post='3129137']
The guy at the collection desk probably deals with this sort of customer frustration every day
[/quote]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1473332949' post='3129152']
The guy's attitude was very much off, but he was probably having a worse day than the OP.
[/quote]

I worked for Royal mail for ten years.
I did some time in the parcel collection office & the unrelenting sh*t you have to take from the public is truly horrendous, and it's nearly always for something that was the customers own responsibility to find out.

[lemmywinks]

The allowance for VAT is £34 and for Customs Duty it's £135, not sure you should have paid anything at all:
https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

[fretmeister]

Basically the Post Office / Parcelforce / whoever has paid the VAT and import for you to allow deliveries to be far faster.

They have the item, they store it they deal with all the paper work with the HMRC on your behalf.

It also ensures the taxes are properly collected.

In the "good" old days the item would arrive at a customs clearing house and sit there for 3 weeks.
Then they would get round to telling you it had arrived.
Then you would have to fill in a long and largely incomprehensible form and send it off to HMRC.
3 weeks after that HMRC would write back and tell you how much duty and Vat you had to pay.
Then you pay it.
Then you'd get a lovely bit of paper that would allow the customs warehouse to release the item to you. Usually a couple of months after you first discovered it was had "arrived."

If you got the form wrong you started again.


Personally I think £11 for not only dealing with that bullshit, but also getting the item delivered far faster is worth every penny. Dealing with the HMRC is always a nightmare.

[RhysP]

[quote name='lemmywinks' timestamp='1473333809' post='3129167']
The allowance for VAT is £34 and for Customs Duty it's £135, not sure you should have paid anything at all:
[url="https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty"]https://www.gov.uk/g...ad/tax-and-duty[/url]
[/quote]

From Royal Mail's website:

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=4]"Any parcel assessed as being liable for Customs charges will also incur a [/size][/font][b]Royal Mail handling fee[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4] of £[/size][/font][b]8[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4]. Any goods imported into the UK over the value of £15 are liable to import VAT. Gifts between private individuals over the value of £34 are also liable for VAT".[/size][/font]

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1473333824' post='3129168']
Dealing with the HMRC is always a nightmare.
[/quote]

Yup. I had to send a faulty item back to China last year and claiming my duty and VAT back from HMRC was the most painful part of the whole process, that's including speaking to the vendor in Shenzen who spoke barely any English. I filled out the form 3 times and sent it Signed For and it got rejected each time because they didn't process it properly, eventually I got a phone call from someone with a brain and after explaining the situation he cleared it and sent me the money. Completely useless.

The silver lining is I was able to buy the same item the week later for £20 less and it got sent with standard mail so no charges, £64 saving!

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1473334187' post='3129176']
From Royal Mail's website:

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=4]"Any parcel assessed as being liable for Customs charges will also incur a [/size][/font][b]Royal Mail handling fee[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4] of £[/size][/font][b]8[/b][font=arial, sans-serif][size=4]. Any goods imported into the UK over the value of £15 are liable to import VAT. Gifts between private individuals over the value of £34 are also liable for VAT".[/size][/font]
[/quote]

My mistake the £34 was for gifts, it's £15 for normal goods. I'm pretty sure that limit used to be around £20 a few years ago?

[RhysP]

[quote name='lemmywinks' timestamp='1473334618' post='3129185']
I'm pretty sure that limit used to be around £20 a few years ago?
[/quote]

That's privatisation for you.

[BigRedX]

To the OP:

There's a whole bunch of threads about importing musical equipment as this subject comes up time and time again. There's even a pinned one in "Bass Guitars" that is chock full of information about import duty, VAT and handling charges for the various carriers so as a fairly regular poster here you should have seen at least one of these recently.

Things you need to remember about importing stuff from outside the EU:

1. You pay VAT and import duty (when applicable) on the value of the goods [b]PLUS[/b] the cost of shipping.

2. The value of the goods is what the sender marks down on the export form when they post the item, not what you actually paid. This can work both ways, but bear in mind that if the value is under declared and you need to make an insurance claim, it will only be allowable for the declared value.

3. Customs clearance handling fees vary depending on the carrier at the UK end of the chain. I've seen fees as low as £8.00, and so far a maximum of £15.00.

4. Just because you've got away with not having to pay import duty and VAT on an item over the threshold on a previous delivery doesn't mean you'll get away with it again. Sometimes you just get lucky.

5. Assume that you'll be paying an extra 25% plus another £10 on top of the combined price of the item plus the shipping cost, and so long as the sender doesn't over declare the value on the customs form you won't be in for any nasty surprises.

HTH.

[Marc S]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1473333230' post='3129157']
I worked for Royal mail for ten years.
I did some time in the parcel collection office & the unrelenting sh*t you have to take from the public is truly horrendous, and it's nearly always for something that was the customers own responsibility to find out.
[/quote]

I'm sure the collection office staff do get some nonsense from time to time, but that doesn't justify treating everyone in a frankly rude, ignorant, obnoxious manner. Working for the NHS, over the years (and in a rather stressful job at that, I might add), I have had to deal with the public a lot too - some of whom are in pain, are undergoing treatment, or have just had awful news about their health, or health and / or life-expectancy of a relative etc etc.
If I ever had spoken to a patient or one of their relatives in such a manner as that guy yesterday...... I'd have been out of a job!

[Marc S]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1473336240' post='3129222']
To the OP:


.....4. Just because you've got away with not having to pay import duty and VAT on an item over the threshold on a previous delivery doesn't mean you'll get away with it again. Sometimes you just get lucky.....

HTH.
[/quote]

I didn't "get away" with anything, the value of the item was printed on the postal label, and I paid the charge I was asked to at the time...
If it was incorrect, that would have surely been the fault of whoever worked the amount out?

The only person to "get away" with anything is the idiot who thinks he can deal with the public in any manner he sees fit.....

[Lozz196]

Please amend the post to Royal Mail or Parcelforce. The Post Office is nothing to do with either of these, being wholly owed by the government, and not having been privatised, whereas Royal Mail and Parcelforce are companies/businesses in their own right, and have been. The Post Office has nothing to do with either the transmission of mail, or customs charges.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Lozz196

[Musicman20]

I've just got to the point where I don't even consider buying from another country unless I'm there at the time, and even then I worry about VAT etc.

Ridiculous state of the world in 2016.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1473338371' post='3129258']
I didn't "get away" with anything, the value of the item was printed on the postal label, and I paid the charge I was asked to at the time...
If it was incorrect, that would have surely been the fault of whoever worked the amount out?

The only person to "get away" with anything is the idiot who thinks he can deal with the public in any manner he sees fit.....
[/quote]

If you only paid £6-7 as you said in your OP - did that item also get delivered by Royal Mail or Parcel Force, or did it come by some other delivery service? It was Royal Mail or Parcel Force, then someone made a mistake and you were lucky and benefitted from it. I've never seen a handling charge of less than £8.00 (on top of VAT and import duty as applicable) in the last 10 years of buying things from outside of the EU.

And while the reported attitude of the employee you dealt with leaves a lot to be desired, there has been plenty of information posted here on a regular basis about import and handling charges so there shouldn't have been any surprise on your part in the first instance.

[Funky Dunky]

I have the utmost sympathy for the OP. I buy all my strings from the States and have never once been charged at this end. And, for an employee to turn his name badge backwards - well, he knew exactly what he was doing. Probably does it every day. Go back down there, try and get a manager and see if you can describe this flange and get him dealt with.

[dannybuoy]

Certain shops will mark their packages as $5 value to get around this. Illegal of course, but still jolly nice of them.

Just to rub your nose in it, I just bought a $300 pedal, it came through marked up for the full value and I didn't have to pay customs a penny! You win some, you lose some.

[Marc S]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1473339394' post='3129277']
And while the reported attitude of the employee you dealt with leaves a lot to be desired, there has been plenty of information posted here on a regular basis about import and handling charges so there shouldn't have been any surprise on your part in the first instance.
[/quote]

Er... what has the first half of this sentence got to do with the second half?

Regarding my "surprise" it may be due to the fact that I had not read of anyone else's complaints on this matter - after all, who has time to read every thread on BC? My surprise is also based on not just my own experience of paying duty, but that of others - having mentioned this experience to several pals (EDIT, I was at a gig last night), none of whom had paid an amount so high, for such low cost goods

Incidentally, the chap behind me in the queue was also collecting goods from the US, his parcel was rather larger (+ heavier) than mine, and he said the contents were valued at over £40 (while the PO guy went into a back room muttering and grumbling) - yet his charge was slightly less than mine! Another mistake? As I was leaving, that gent whispered to me words something like "what a miserable git!" (not aimed at myself, I would point out)

My OP was not a rant at all Post Office staff, indeed, I did say that the service had always been pretty good in the past.
But this behaviour is unacceptable..... I'm just pleased this guy wasn't working in the NHS - he'd have lasted less than a week.....

Edited September 8, 2016 by Marc S

[Marc S]

Anyhow, rant over - I've calmed down

[4stringslow]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1473342339' post='3129322']
- yet his charge was slightly less than mine! Another mistake?
[/quote]

Perhaps it depends on the nature of the goods? Import duties are not just a single band for everything are they?

[fretmeister]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1473345395' post='3129370']
Perhaps it depends on the nature of the goods? Import duties are not just a single band for everything are they?
[/quote]

Nope. They vary quite a lot.

[fretmeister]

Anyway - I bet none of you ever got drunk and ordered some pyro equipment for magic shows from USA ebay and had to explain that to customs...