TimR Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 It was just something I read in another thread Dad. So although your band are young, one of them is your son? And while he's young he's experienced so technically been playing a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1435953882' post='2814023'] I suppose you missed the smiley. Anyway. I said the good ones were in short supply. Generally they're in high demand and already playing in bands. I'm guessing you've not had to audition anyone recently. [/quote] If some guy turns up to audition, and he's got a 100W marshall stack and no idea how to use it appropriately---and the band let him in anyway---who are the bigger idiots, him, or the rest of the band? You're right that I haven't auditioned people recently but I go to a lot of amateur gigs and I genuinely can't remember a single one that was ruined by a guitarist cranking his amp inappropriately. Lots of dreadful bands, lots of dreadful guitarists, lots of dreadful guitar [i]sounds[/i], but zero memorable instances of bands being ruined by one guy's volume. So either I'm the luckiest gig-goer in Scotland or the problem of guitarists not knowing where the volume control is has been overstated ever so slightly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1435954044' post='2814024'] It was just something I read in another thread Dad. So although your band are young, one of them is your son? And while he's young he's experienced so technically been playing a while. [/quote] To be exact, both sons, and, yes, the eldest is rather experienced in live work, recording and home studio stuff. He plays drums too, which helps, of course..! [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1435954715' post='2814030']...the problem of guitarists not knowing where the volume control is has been overstated ever so slightly! [/quote] This ^, in my experience. Maybe lucky, too..? I was touring (on drums...) in variety bands back in the '70s; the 'standard' guitar amps were Fender Twins. They had to create a whole panoply of sounds, from light 'musette' skanking to Santana, through Stones medleys and Police and more, all with the same amp, and few pedals (the current choice wasn't available..!). Usually a Gibson SG, sometimes a Strat, seldom more than 1 guitar. We were seldom mic'ed up (not even drums..!). The venues were medium marquees in the town square up to festival-size stages, sometimes larger restaurants for some 'functions'; never had any guitarist too loud for the occasion. The band leader wouldn't have kept anyone out of line, anyway. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1435956268' post='2814043'] The band leader wouldn't have kept anyone out of line, anyway. Just sayin'. [/quote] This, to me, is a massively important point. If the guitarist in your band doesn't play at a sensible volume, then the rest of the band or at least the band leader have to take responsibility if they allow that situation to continue. If your guitarist is ruining gigs or practices by playing too loudly, why has no-one suggested a fix? If he refuses to fix it, why is he still in your band? People don't turn into idiots overnight---its very obvious after one or two rehearsals if someone has no idea about playing with others. Silently accepting it and then moaning on an internet forum about the "guitard" in your band makes you just as culpable as he is (if not more so---maybe he doesn't realise there's a problem, but you have and you've decided not to do anything about it!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I don't think anyone is moaning that their guitarist does do those things. I wouldn't play in a band with a guitarist or a drummer like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1435957556' post='2814059'] I don't think anyone is moaning that their guitarist does do those things. I wouldn't play in a band with a guitarist or a drummer like that. [/quote] Me neither, but they must be in somebodies band, or else who are all these guitarist gripes based on? Surely not just hearsay and rumour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) In light of this and some other threads about live mix/sound advice I've started a thread actvely asking my fellow BC'ers in Edinburgh to come and offer some constructive criticism on my bands live sound. It could be fine out front but we have an ongoing volume battle between vox-fiddle-guitar and I'm not convinced the mix is right out front either. It's nothing that a grown-up conversation and some mild ego checking would likely fix but as in most bands we'll let the public decide! Here's a link to the post with a bit more background as to what I feel might need addresssed and ideally on this occasion comment on my poor technique, lack of finesse and gerenal all round hamfistedness should be addressed in a caring and sensitive fashion [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/265322-edinburgh-bcers-come-and-give-advice-on-our-live-sound/"]http://basschat.co.u...our-live-sound/[/url] Edited July 4, 2015 by krispn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 [quote name='krispn' timestamp='1435971107' post='2814135'] In light of this and some other threads about live mix/sound advice I've started a thread actvely asking my fellow BC'ers in Edinburgh to come and offer some constructive criticism on my bands live sound. It could be fine out front but we have an ongoing volume battle between vox-fiddle-guitar and I'm not convinced the mix is right out front either. It's nothing that a grown-up conversation and some mild ego checking would likely fix but as in most bands we'll let the public decide! Here's a link to the post with a bit more background as to what I feel might need addresssed and ideally on this occasion comment on my poor technique, lack of finesse and gerenal all round hamfistedness should be addressed in a caring and sensitive fashion [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/265322-edinburgh-bcers-come-and-give-advice-on-our-live-sound/"]http://basschat.co.u...our-live-sound/[/url] [/quote] There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving advice if it's solicited. It's people coming up willy nilly and telling you to do this or that that gets me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I think if someone offers you advice you should be reasonably competent to work out very quickly whether they know what they're talking about. If you can't work that out within a few seconds and people are coming up 'willy nilly' to advise you, it might be wise to listen to them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 [font="Calibri"][size="3"][color="#000000"]I have met plenty of bad engineers who are great Bull ShXXers. Just go to any website like gearslutz, you will find t loads well written convincing arguments from people who seem knowledgeable, experienced and competent until you listen to their music. [/color][/size][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1436003014' post='2814255'] I think if someone offers you advice you should be reasonably competent to work out very quickly whether they know what they're talking about. If you can't work that out within a few seconds and people are coming up 'willy nilly' to advise you, it might be wise to listen to them! [/quote] I still find it incredibly cheeky for some random to approach a band and offer his views on why you should change this or that. As has been mentioned, if a band that has nothing to do with you in a random bar, has a rotten sound, then you should leave them to it. No matter how much you might know, you are in danger of annoying them, so why risk it? I don't like "experts" coming and giving unsolicited advice and I would not offer it unless I knew the band or I was asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I think the better way to approach this would be "loved your band mate, just wish I could have heard - insert relevant instrument or singer here here - better as they`re a great". Unless there`s friction in the band they might have a rethink on getting the levels of that particular person up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 There's millions of ways to approach it. If the band is going to get arsey over some well meaning friendly advice that's their problem. Most likely they'll lose another potential follower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1435949814' post='2813991'] I suspect there is no smoke without fire and guitarists who don't crank their amps to 11 are the exception to the norm. Rather like drummers who can control their dynamics without resorting to using hot-rods. Yes, they exist but they're in very short supply. Swimming against the steam and complaining that all guitarists aren't like that is a bit of a pointless exercise. [/quote] I can't remember the last time I played with a guitarist or drummer like that. Mind you, I can't remember what I had for breakfast either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) I would suggest that bands who dismiss out of hand well meaning advice deserve to have a crap sound, personally if someone I don't know comments on the sound I'd thank them for their comment and then ask someone who I do know whether the advice is good or not Edited July 4, 2015 by PaulWarning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) [font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]I don't think it's a matter of bands been rude to you, it's just that anybody who gigs regularly will meet all kinds of idiots and know it all and there is a very good chance that you may be regarded has one of them.[/color][/size][/font] Edited July 4, 2015 by ironside1966 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1436036452' post='2814538'] I would suggest that bands who dismiss out of hand well meaning advice deserve to have a crap sound, personally if someone I don't know comments on the sound I'd thank them for their comment and then ask someone who I do know whether the advice is good or not [/quote] thats the best tactic really fellow musicians in the audience are good for this purpose just telling someone to F**k off just makes you look like a dick even if their comments are completely unjustified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb13.bass Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 [quote name='The Admiral' timestamp='1434859363' post='2803341'] No. I'm always wary of coming off like an arse in situations like this, and I'm very conscious of how this looks from their side - some random bloke from a pub audience telling them how to use their gear. It's the kind of thing which turns up in the 'How was your gig last night?' thread on here all the time! They also had a table full of WAGs and mates with them, plus a few people who were there specifically to see them, who were lapping it up, so it didn't seem as if it would have landed too well. So frustrating though, particulalyr as, if I put my 'producer's' hat in, I could also have given them some input on the arrangements and general performance too! I would definitely have suggested the guitarist swap his semi for a telecaster, or something solid bodied and suitably 'cool' - and whether he could be persuaded to do so or not, certainly go for an overdriven Muddy Waters type sound - which would have worked far better. I don't know if they were going for a kind of Eddie Cochran/Rockabilly guitar sound, but it didn't come off - not aided by DI'ing the guitar : far better to have played with a small back line amp, which would have taken a lot of the mush out of the PA sound too, as it wouldnt have been competing for the mid range. [/quote] In my experience telling any pub band that their sound is less than perfect is like telling a bloke that his wife or girlfriend needs to lose weight; it may be completely true but it's unlikely to elicit a positive response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 There's a massive difference between making a suggestion to help a band who are having feedback problems and telling the guitarist that he should be using a different make of guitar. If someone told me I was using the wrong bass for a tune they'd definitely be making themselves look like an arse. Although I'd still smile and thank them for their opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 [quote name='pjb13.bass' timestamp='1436180640' post='2815592'] In my experience telling any pub band that their sound is less than perfect is like telling a bloke that his wife or girlfriend needs to lose weight; it may be completely true but it's unlikely to elicit a positive response. [/quote] Completely agree mate. Who wants a complete stranger coming over condescendingly telling them they have got it wrong? Like it or not, that's the way a lot of people will take it. I totally agree that if I know the band, I would be willing to help from an audience perspective, but you don't know these people, they don't know you. You could just be some knob that has no clue but thinks he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 [quote name='pjb13.bass' timestamp='1436180640' post='2815592'] ...unlikely to elicit a positive response. [/quote] ...i.e. a slap in the chops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) I have never met a knob with no clue that doesn’t think they have a valid and informed opinion. Edited July 7, 2015 by ironside1966 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1436188551' post='2815704'] Completely agree mate. Who wants a complete stranger coming over condescendingly telling them they have got it wrong? Like it or not, that's the way a lot of people will take it. I totally agree that if I know the band, I would be willing to help from an audience perspective, but you don't know these people, they don't know you. You could just be some knob that has no clue but thinks he does. [/quote] 'Condescendingly' may be where the problem lies there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Tim, can you do our sound at my next gig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) [size=4][font=Calibri][color=#000000]Tim, if you take yourself out of the equation you obviously feel you have the skills and confidence to offer help but do you really think it is a good idea to encourage everybody that thinks they are PA experts to come out of the audience and get involved. That would include most DJs at least one person out of every band and virtually anyone who has done a collage Course in music tech. [/color][/font][/size] [size=4][font=Calibri][color=#000000]it's bound to end in tears and repair bills.[/color][/font][/size] Edited July 7, 2015 by ironside1966 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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