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alexclaber

Barefaced Behemoth? Suggest a big crazy cab for us to add to the range! (And tell us why we should...)

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4x15"
2x18" (maybe isobaric?) & 2x12"
Or something along the line of the [left]Ampeg PR-1832 HE, but Behemoth style and without tweeter: [/left]
[left]1x18" & [/left]2x15" & 2x10".

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This is all about the size isn't it. Sort of the opposite of the mental 8x15" cab, what about a 1 x 15" with totally over sized proportions? How would this sound? Like a 6 ft high 1 x 15"

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[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1430317406' post='2760219']
This is all about the size isn't it. Sort of the opposite of the mental 8x15" cab, what about a 1 x 15" with totally over sized proportions? How would this sound? Like a 6 ft high 1 x 15"
[/quote]


with a door at the back, so it doubles as changing room...

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2x12" and 2x15" with crossovers.

Like 2 x Vox T60 cabs in one lightweight box.

Edited by Jazzneck

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Well if you want to be ott Behringer's iPod dock does it.

[URL=http://s970.photobucket.com/user/gelfin5959/media/Giant%20I%20pod%20doc_zpsu5cddxnj.jpg.html][IMG]http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae181/gelfin5959/Giant%20I%20pod%20doc_zpsu5cddxnj.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1430341238' post='2760560']
Well if you want to be ott Behringer's iPod dock does it.

[url="http://s970.photobucket.com/user/gelfin5959/media/Giant%20I%20pod%20doc_zpsu5cddxnj.jpg.html"][/url]
[/quote]

The BF Behemoth version of this should perform like the current Big Twin II :D

Edited by 3below

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[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1429971514' post='2756834']
How about an isobaric 8 X 10?

[url="http://s970.photobucket.com/user/gelfin5959/media/Iso%208%20x%2010_zpss3naeell.jpg.html"][/url]
[/quote] :D

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What about an isobaric 6X10, i.e. 3X10 vertical with 3X10 mounted behind them? Sealed...

Edited by discreet

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How about a vertical oriented isobaric 8x 15, 4 speakers high but with the rear speakers wired in antiphase and facing rearward. Would that work?

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I thought the big problem with isobaric arrangements was the loss in sensitivity — down 6dB. Don't modern drivers essentially solve the extension/cabinet size problem that isobaric designs attempted to address?

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[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' timestamp='1430728766' post='2763960']
I thought the big problem with isobaric arrangements was the loss in sensitivity — down 6dB. Don't modern drivers essentially solve the extension/cabinet size problem that isobaric designs attempted to address?
[/quote]

You're probably right, as my technical knowledge of isobaric systems is zero. I do find the concept of being able to cram two drivers into the space more or less occupied by one driver very attractive, but of course there's always a price to be paid and the laws of physics usually turn up to spoil the party. ;)

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[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1429971514' post='2756834']
How about an isobaric 8 X 10?

[URL=http://s970.photobucket.com/user/gelfin5959/media/Iso%208%20x%2010_zpss3naeell.jpg.html][IMG]http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae181/gelfin5959/Iso%208%20x%2010_zpss3naeell.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[/quote]

Isobaric is a strange thing which dates from the era when speaker parameters meant that they needed big boxes to go low. The solution to this was putting one speaker behind another with a small air gap between them. What this does is double the moving mass whilst keeping the radiating area the same (because the back of one and the front of the other don't radiate) so you can put them in a box with half the rear volume and get the same -3dB point - but at a cost of losing 3dB of sensitivity compared to one driver on its own.

It only works properly with true woofers - as soon as you run them into the midrange weird stuff happens as the back woofer fires through the front woofer. At high power the front woofer will get hotter than the back woofer (unless its magnet is on the outside in which case the reverse will happen) so they'll stop working in synchrony and things will get weird in the lows too.

So if you had a 1x12 with 96dB sensitivity an isobaric 2x12" would be 93dB whilst a normal 2x12" would be 99dB. The isobaric would be about 2/3 of the size of the 1x12" because although the rear enclosure volume is halved you have to fit the extra woofer and isobaric air space in too. If you're happy with it sounding very coloured then you could run that 12" up into the mids but if you want accurate sound it would need a midrange driver crossed over very low (so probably at least an 8") which makes the cab even bigger!

A triumph of marketing over design... ;)

Nowadays if you went to a loudspeaker designer and said that you wanted a cab which was smaller than your current 1x12" but went as deep and had as much output (but needed twice the power) then they'd design you a speaker with a bigger voice coil (for more power handling), a heavier cone and stiffer suspension. You could then put that in a smaller box and throw more power at it, exactly like an isobaric design but without needing to fit a second speaker in there.

Edited by alexclaber

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1430732546' post='2764028']
You're probably right, as my technical knowledge of isobaric systems is zero. I do find the concept of being able to cram two drivers into the space more or less occupied by one driver very attractive, but of course there's always a price to be paid and the laws of physics usually turn up to spoil the party. ;)
[/quote]

I remember the first time I heard some Linn Isobarik speakers in a demo room in a hi-fi shop run by a mate of mine. Staggeringly good. Mind you this was part of a £24,000 system — in 1990s prices. The bass driver was doubled up — a pair of those race-track oval Kef B139 jobbies in each cabinet. You needed a very capable amp to drive them though.

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[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' timestamp='1430734191' post='2764047']
I remember the first time I heard some Linn Isobarik speakers in a demo room in a hi-fi shop run by a mate of mine. Staggeringly good. Mind you this was part of a £24,000 system — in 1990s prices.
[/quote]

Ah yes, I lusted after these at the time, but budget constraints meant I settled for a pair of Linn Keilidhs, which I still have - and they sound totally amazing. I still can't afford high-end Linn gear though - rock-star spending power has thus far eluded me.

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Maybe some of your suggestions Alex to give us an idea of what you're thinking? I'll read the full thread later o if you have already done so apologies. It's reading a bit like a 'here what we offer for all your suggestions' thread at the mo ;)

and a lovely insight into the technicals and intricacies involved in speaker/cabinet science I may add :)

Edited by krispn

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Good point!

Right now I'm leaning towards a 4x12" with our 12XN550 drivers and I think we're going to try it with half the drivers reverse mounted... And probably offer passive and active versions.

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Any chance of considering the 3-way big+little+horn style configuration? Are there inherent problems with this type of thing? All the good 3-way cabs I've heard have been glorious.

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[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1431080834' post='2767563']
Good point!
we're going to try it with half the drivers reverse mounted.
[/quote]

ACME 2x12"tastic! (?)

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[quote name='owen' timestamp='1431082570' post='2767589']ACME 2x12"tastic! (?)[/quote]

No, not impulse compensated. Like this:

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That doesn't know if it's coming or going.

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Reversed speakers - I called that didn't I? I will graciously accept my prize of a new cab, thanks very much... :-)

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