Youtube bass demos

[Bilbo]

I watched a load of bass videos today where players were demoing brand name basses; Foderas, Alembics etc.

What I noticed was that good players sounded great on them and crap players sounded crap.

[lojo]

Where they all the same bass, how do you know it wasn't a bad bass making a good player sound bad, and a good bass making a bad player sound good

[jonnythenotes]

To light a fire, or keep a fire burning, you need 3 things....fuel, heat and oxygen. take one or more away and.....no fire. To make a bass sound good, you need four things. A decent finger or plectrum technique, a bass that suits the style of music you are playing, a reasonable quality amp, and some decent speakers. This is ' the chain' in the order that it happens, and one must drive and support the one that follows it. Many folks think by having one or two of these four requirements they will get the sound they want, and many folks are disappointed that they fall short of this elusive sound. I spent 25 years buying the best gear I could afford at the time, but never really got there, as I was buying for example ' the amp ' without considering how it would sound with the rest of the gear In the overall mix of ' the four .' Buying without thinking things through, can often result in a bass player ending up with a fantastic rig (as individual component parts,) yet it sounds crap as they are not matched to each other. I would always suggest , start at the beginning by asking a few simple questions... Do I use or prefer finger or plectrum.....this has a huge effect on the sound you will create..... Is the bass I am using capable of creating the sound I want....? Not all basses can create that funky sound, and not all are good at bone crunching low end. Amp and cabs are more of a personal choice, but some amps will start to distort and grind at lower pre amp levels, so if mid to highs are what you want, Orange gear might not be the right choice, whereas TC or Markbass might do the trick. The last thing in the chain is the cab. A 15" speaker will rearrange you intestine, whereas 8 or 10 " speakers will take the top off a boiled egg at 100yds. 15s are fantastic at low to mids, and if you stick in a horn they sound brilliant, but they just can't 'snap' back as quick as an 8 or 10 can...... I am not being a know all, or a smart arse.....far from it, as I would not have taken 25 years and spent £1000's on gear I probably didn't need.. All I am trying to say is think thru, and ask advice before you flush your hard earned cash unnecessarily round the 'S' bend...

[ubit]

I get sick of all the bedroom " wizards " that think they can play, who insist on clogging up your searches with their covers of songs. Ok, there's a lot of really good guys on there too, but a hell of a lot of tatt !

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1421594585' post='2663035']
To light a fire, or keep a fire burning, you need 3 things....fuel, heat and oxygen. take one or more away and.....no fire. To make a bass sound good, you need four things. A decent finger or plectrum technique, a bass that suits the style of music you are playing, a reasonable quality amp, and some decent speakers. This is ' the chain' in the order that it happens, and one must drive and support the one that follows it. Many folks think by having one or two of these four requirements they will get the sound they want, and many folks are disappointed that they fall short of this elusive sound. I spent 25 years buying the best gear I could afford at the time, but never really got there, as I was buying for example ' the amp ' without considering how it would sound with the rest of the gear In the overall mix of ' the four .' Buying without thinking things through, can often result in a bass player ending up with a fantastic rig (as individual component parts,) yet it sounds crap as they are not matched to each other. I would always suggest , start at the beginning by asking a few simple questions... Do I use or prefer finger or plectrum.....this has a huge effect on the sound you will create..... Is the bass I am using capable of creating the sound I want....? Not all basses can create that funky sound, and not all are good at bone crunching low end. Amp and cabs are more of a personal choice, but some amps will start to distort and grind at lower pre amp levels, so if mid to highs are what you want, Orange gear might not be the right choice, whereas TC or Markbass might do the trick. The last thing in the chain is the cab. A 15" speaker will rearrange you intestine, whereas 8 or 10 " speakers will take the top off a boiled egg at 100yds. 15s are fantastic at low to mids, and if you stick in a horn they sound brilliant, but they just can't 'snap' back as quick as an 8 or 10 can...... I am not being a know all, or a smart arse.....far from it, as I would not have taken 25 years and spent £1000's on gear I probably didn't need.. All I am trying to say is think thru, and ask advice before you flush your hard earned cash unnecessarily round the 'S' bend...
[/quote]

Interesting collection of thoughts - I agree with your views on "bottle-necking" in the chain - if the desired tone is a deep tone, and a pickup, preamp, amp, or a speaker driver is rolling off the lows you'll get nowhere near the desired tone. In short it only takes one weak point to let down the whole chain.

Where I'm less on board is with the speaker cone ideas - with conventional construction drivers (regular drivers, not guitar or high-excursion ones) you can get a ballpark idea of speaker performance based on diameter - but some of similar sizes will have huge differences in performance at different frequencies . . . once you add in specialty drivers like sub drivers with huge excursion, guitar drivers that can distort a lot without failing, it becomes impossible to know a specific property of a driver or cab knowing only it's diameter. It'll be useful info when combined with things like a detailed datasheet on the driver and the cab dimensions!

In all cases I think if it sounds right, it is right - hence if you can find a great 810 or 218 - or 412 - as long as it sounds the way you want (and you can move it!) - it's a good choice.

[Cameronj279]

I've noticed this too. I've also noticed Warwick have endless sound demos of their basses -all of which have a distinctive character- but they all tend to sound similar because they are generally all played by Andy Irvine.

saying that. The thumb bass sounds a hell of a lot better in his hands than in mine!

[stingrayPete1977]

Its only ever going to sound as good as the player, I thought we had done 15s are bassy, 10s are toppy years ago? Still its a quiet sunday so why not

[ambient]

[quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1421594585' post='2663035']
To light a fire, or keep a fire burning, you need 3 things....fuel, heat and oxygen. take one or more away and.....no fire. To make a bass sound good, you need four things. A decent finger or plectrum technique, a bass that suits the style of music you are playing, a reasonable quality amp, and some decent speakers. This is ' the chain' in the order that it happens, and one must drive and support the one that follows it. Many folks think by having one or two of these four requirements they will get the sound they want, and many folks are disappointed that they fall short of this elusive sound. I spent 25 years buying the best gear I could afford at the time, but never really got there, as I was buying for example ' the amp ' without considering how it would sound with the rest of the gear In the overall mix of ' the four .' Buying without thinking things through, can often result in a bass player ending up with a fantastic rig (as individual component parts,) yet it sounds crap as they are not matched to each other. I would always suggest , start at the beginning by asking a few simple questions... Do I use or prefer finger or plectrum.....this has a huge effect on the sound you will create..... Is the bass I am using capable of creating the sound I want....? Not all basses can create that funky sound, and not all are good at bone crunching low end. Amp and cabs are more of a personal choice, but some amps will start to distort and grind at lower pre amp levels, so if mid to highs are what you want, Orange gear might not be the right choice, whereas TC or Markbass might do the trick. The last thing in the chain is the cab. A 15" speaker will rearrange you intestine, whereas 8 or 10 " speakers will take the top off a boiled egg at 100yds. 15s are fantastic at low to mids, and if you stick in a horn they sound brilliant, but they just can't 'snap' back as quick as an 8 or 10 can...... I am not being a know all, or a smart arse.....far from it, as I would not have taken 25 years and spent £1000's on gear I probably didn't need.. All I am trying to say is think thru, and ask advice before you flush your hard earned cash unnecessarily round the 'S' bend...
[/quote]

I once saw Anthony Jackson doing a masterclass at my uni. He was playing his Fodera through a clapped out Ashdown rig and sounded awesome.

In my experience it has nothing at all to do with the gear, it's all the player.

Guys on here spend a fortune every year buying stuff, and then moving it on because it doesn't make them sound any better.

[jonnythenotes]

Hiya Plunger.... Completely agree with your comment 'if it sounds right it is right' but to a lot of people, what they hear from their kit isn't right, and determining which 'part or parts' are not right is the hard bit. For what it is worth, my kit comprises of Wood and tronics EJ 4 into a Epifani PS 600 amp, and this into 2 Ashdown ABM Neo 4x8 cabs. As you can see, the whole lot is pretty modern sounding kit, which I have deliberately put together that way piece by piece, to deliver a middle to top funky sound. With the cabs, individually, the speakers are not having to work to hard, but collectively, 8 of these are moving a lot of air compared to a to a couple of 15's... ( I have left myself wide open here for some speaker techno stuff, as I am a cave man when it comes to that sort of thing..) Over the years, I have tried the back breaking Trace Elliot and Peavey monsters. Orange, Gallien Krueger and Ampeg etc, plus an equally varied collection of basses and amps. What I have got now is ideal for my style of playing, and the type of music I play, but it would be hopelessly inadequate or unsuitable for dub reggae, metal or even a lot of pub rock. I think we both agree that spending heaps of cash on what you 'hope' will work is not as effective as spending on some well considered gear...

[jonnythenotes]

Hello Ambient.....Did he tell you it was clapped out, or did you ask him...? All I am trying to get across to whoever is interested, is by and large, most people will sound a lot better if they consider what they want to sound like before buying. It's a simple case of getting stuff that is fit for its purpose.

[thebrig]

I have to agree with stingrayPete on this.

I think most of us do put a lot of thought into our equipment, ie: what might work best with what etc.. I have a great bass, and a great rig that most people think works well together for the type music I play, and I do get the occasional compliment, but I lent my gear to a bass playing mate at a gig where both our bands were playing on the same night, he sounded amazing, whereas, I sounded average

Yes, I'm ok, but he is a much better player than me!

[Bilbo]

Pat Metheny was a gear Nazi in his early years and would only play if he had his own kit. Many, many years later he agreed to sit in without it and sounded great. Stanley Clarke reports a similar experience.

Personally, I think most of it is fruitless naval gazing. But I can't tell a Jazz from a Precision.

[stingrayPete1977]

There is a minimal level of bass and amp imo, I could buy both and a good tuner, stand, leads etc for around £1500 or a bit more, after that I'm not sure who is kidding who?

[stingrayPete1977]

Btw I haven't followed that advice either

[ubit]

Why do people have to slap all over sound demos of guitars or amps? I want to hear what it sounds like, not slapping. There seems to be a school of thought that if you don't slap, your no use!

[xilddx]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1421658596' post='2663564']
Why do people have to slap all over sound demos of guitars or amps? I want to hear what it sounds like, not slapping. There seems to be a school of thought that if you don't slap, your no use!
[/quote]

Probably because the 'gear demo' is actually a stupid promo vid for the plonker showing off his/her slap skillz. Awful most of the time, and useless to anyone wanting to know what the kit sounds like.

[gadgie]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1421658596' post='2663564']
Why do people have to slap all over sound demos of guitars or amps? I want to hear what it sounds like, not slapping. There seems to be a school of thought that if you don't slap, your no use!
[/quote]
plus a lot of +'s for that post.

Slap slap plink, zing slap, plink.

Only done a lot faster then you read the line above this one.

[Bobthedog]

Another thought is that our ears are all different, what sounds good tone to one person may not to another. Both are right.

[fingerz]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1421590236' post='2662955']
I watched a load of bass videos today where players were demoing brand name basses; Foderas, Alembics etc.

What I noticed was that good players sounded great on them and crap players sounded crap.
[/quote]

This will always be the case. Clothes don't make the man!! There are also some horrible ambient mics being used on such media. That still won't change the basic point you make. So much more to music than making a sound come out of a bit of wood.

[Bilbo]

Krect.

[Beer of the Bass]

I like Ed Friedland's demos. He doesn't play the same stuff each time, he seems good at figuring out what sort of approach suits each instrument. The potential downside of that is that he makes everything sound good! Garth Fielding's demos for D'Addario and Ampeg are pretty good too - he's not showing off, just demonstrating a selection of sounds that can be got.
I've found that Youtube demos of EUBs are the worst, as only a tiny proportion of them are by people with any double bass technique...

[vsmith1]

+1 on the demos of kit involving too much slapping, and I'd add soloing. I mean a demo should reflect what we do - and for most people most of the time it is laying down that groove, nothing fancy just solid, etc.

Also in regards to many YouTube vids then what we are most interested in the sound so why is the recording the last thing on the mind? I mean some of them sound like they are recorded in a shop or bathroom - poor quality, argh....

Just step away from the soapbox...

[No lust in Jazz]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1421590236' post='2662955']
I watched a load of bass videos today where players were demoing brand name basses; Foderas, Alembics etc.
[/quote]

Well done, if I try this I usually want to throw myself out of a window at around one minute in.

I'm looking into getting a Fodera, but the hardest bit will be trying one out.

Edited January 19, 2015 by No lust in Jazz

[Bilbo]

I just watched 4 videos claiming to explain the difference between a P bass and a Jazz. I hear the words and they make sense and then they play the basses and I am buggered if I can tell the difference definitively. A guy says 'this P has more puch' and then 'zzzzzzing' follwed by 'this Jazz has mroe bite' and then 'doink'. I just don't think any of it matters very much!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1421663295' post='2663621']
I like Ed Friedland's demos. He doesn't play the same stuff each time, he seems good at figuring out what sort of approach suits each instrument. The potential downside of that is that he makes everything sound good! Garth Fielding's demos for D'Addario and Ampeg are pretty good too - he's not showing off, just demonstrating a selection of sounds that can be got.
I've found that Youtube demos of EUBs are the worst, as only a tiny proportion of them are by people with any double bass technique...
[/quote]

I agree with all of this, Ed has cost me a fortune! And it would be great if a good player compared all the eubs from the stagg right upto the fancy ones with all styles shown.