Can Somebody Please Explain To Me About Pre-Amps?

[spongebob]

I was watching some Youtube stuff about tone, etc., and there was mention about pre-amps (Sansamp Tech 21?)

I've been playing for about 20 years, and have never used one!

Could somebody please explain what they do, and the point? I play direct into a Markbass 121P amp and New York cab - would a P.A. assist my tone in any way at all? For your average pub/club gigger, is there any benefit?

I just assume that I EQ with the amp/head - I can't understand what a pre-amp would do.

Sorry for being a dummy here - I'd just like to know more!

[Thurbs]

A pre-amp modulates the signal from the input channel in to the power amplifier.

The difference between a PA amp and a bass amp is the bass amp has a pre-amp designed for the lower frequencies built in, where as a PA amp has no pre-amp.

Some like to buy a box which has a pre-amp, amp and speaker in one box (combo). Some like to separate the speaker from the pre-amp & amp. Some like the flexibility of a separate pre-amp(s), amp(s) and speaker(s) for ultimate flexibility.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Thurbs

[LukeFRC]

You have used a preamp all your bass playing life.

Your rig has 3 parts.
1 Preamp
2 Poweramp
3 Speaker/cab.

A combo combines all 3.
A normal bass or guitar head contains 1 and 2.
Something like your powered speakers in the PA or the Bergantino IP series is 2 and 3. (and sometimes 1 too)

If you've got an active bass that's a preamp too!

[Guest bassman7755]

If you have to ask what one is you probable dont need one.

[Musky]

In terms of preamps like the Sansamp BDDI what you're buying is a DI with tone shaping capabilities. The BDDI is intended to recreate the sound of an SVT, complete with drive, so if that's your thing yes it would assist your tone. But seeing as how you've done without one (and presumably the SVT) so far you probably don't need it.

Most clubs I've played tend to DI the bass and prefer using their own boxes rather than any DI built into the amp, so I'm surprised you haven't come across this. In such circumstances it can be handy to have some control over your FoH sound, but your still left with trying to persuade the engineer to use your kit rather than his own.

And DI-ing to the PA is about volume rather than tone.

[bassmachine2112]

Pre amp boxes with DI capability are the mutts nuts.
Try the behringer one bdi21,sansamp clone,cheap as and you have a DI box as well and an overdrive as well unless you like the tone and keep it on all the time like most of us.

[Lozz196]

I use the same set-up as you Bob, and I use a Zoom B3 as a pre-amp, which has amp-modelling of the Markbass Little Mark II on it. I add a little bit of compression and a little bit of drive, whilst choosing the LMII amp-modelling. I then set all eq on my CMD121P at midday - essentially using the eq of the Zooms amp-modelling, and the actual Markbass amp itself as a power amp.

This way, should I need to go through FOH, my sound is there and ready and whatever I do on-stage re volume doesn`t affect the PA - something sound-men seem to appreciate. Additionally, should I use a provided rig, again, set all controls to midday (hoping that means flat on said rig) and my sound is there.

Plus, if I have amp-failure, I can use the Zoom direct to whatever PA and again it`s my sound I`ll get rather than a generic bass tone. I wouldn`t be without the B3 - it has many different effects, none of which I use, but also a tuner, which I do.

[spongebob]

Interesting stuff - many thanks!

Lozz - I actually looked at the Zoom last year - looks very good, and not badly priced either. Good call.

I suppose I'm just looking for a bit more control and grunt in my sound, I'm sticking a Ric through the Markbass mostly (occasionally P with flats, but I'm EQ'ing more with the Ric in mind).

[JapanAxe]

Surely if you need an external pre-amp you bought the wrong amp in the first place?

Edited December 18, 2013 by JapanAxe

[lefrash]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1387392585' post='2311523']
Surely if you need an external pre-amp you bought the wrong amp in the first place?
[/quote]

I would say Yes to this, but for me the main point of an external preamp is for the times you dont get to gig your own amp. In a perfect world We'd all use our own gear at every gig but thats not really feasible (IME anyway). Having a preamp pedal will allow you to have the same tone (or as close as you'll get) at every gig, plus it means the PA should be getting my tone, rather than just the horrible dry tone.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1387393570' post='2311544']
I would say Yes to this, but for me the main point of an external preamp is for the times you dont get to gig your own amp. In a perfect world We'd all use our own gear at every gig but thats not really feasible (IME anyway). Having a preamp pedal will allow you to have the same tone (or as close as you'll get) at every gig, plus it means the PA should be getting my tone, rather than just the horrible dry tone.
[/quote]

That`s exactly it for me.

[0175westwood29]

i must admit this is where i love my mody, the aguilar pre amp can give me a very decent sound if the sound guy decides to us there own di box, however i normally make a point of at least using my head ( its only an orange terror tho not sure how id feel if i had my ideal thunderverb 200 head.

although i do have a mid size pedal board so i can tweak things a bit to get close to my dirt tone.

andy

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1387392585' post='2311523']
Surely if you need an external pre-amp you bought the wrong amp in the first place?
[/quote] good point.

[dincz]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1387392585' post='2311523']
Surely if you need an external pre-amp you bought the wrong amp in the first place?
[/quote]

Or you accidentally bought a power amp?

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1387482998' post='2312626']
Or you accidentally bought a power amp?
[/quote]Did the words CROWN XLS1000 on the box not give it away?

[dincz]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1387485759' post='2312665']
Did the words CROWN XLS1000 on the box not give it away?
[/quote]

No, I bought that because I had accidentally bought a preamp

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1387393570' post='2311544']
I would say Yes to this, but for me the main point of an external preamp is for the times you dont get to gig your own amp. In a perfect world We'd all use our own gear at every gig but thats not really feasible (IME anyway). Having a preamp pedal will allow you to have the same tone (or as close as you'll get) at every gig, plus it means the PA should be getting my tone, rather than just the horrible dry tone.
[/quote]
I've recently started taking my F1-x to gigs where a backline is provided and some engineers still prefer me to plug into their box rather than use my DI-Out. However, when I do use my own DI out , I tend to give them the pre signal which gives them everything except the master volume so I can control my on-stage volume without giving the FOH a too hot signal.
So far it's working well.

[Happy Jack]

I bought a Sansamp some years ago when I used different basses through a different rig.

I have no need of it at all these days, but it still comes to every gig.

In the event of any backline failure in my bass rig, the Sansamp allows me to run through the PA instead with minimum fuss and no drama.

I probably wouldn't go and buy one simply for that purpose, but if you already have one it seems such a no-brainer to keep it with you ...

[Mikey R]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1387222959' post='2309599']
Most clubs I've played tend to DI the bass and prefer using their own boxes rather than any DI built into the amp, so I'm surprised you haven't come across this. In such circumstances it can be handy to have some control over your FoH sound, but your still left with trying to persuade the engineer to use your kit rather than his own.
[/quote]
[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1387392585' post='2311523']
Surely if you need an external pre-amp you bought the wrong amp in the first place?
[/quote]

Ive youve got the preamp on your pedalboard, theres no way they engineer can bypass it. Its always a struggle convincing the engineer to mic or DI from the amp.

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1387628118' post='2313931']
Ive youve got the preamp on your pedalboard, theres no way they engineer can bypass it. Its always a struggle convincing the engineer to mic or DI from the amp.
[/quote]

never have a problem getting the sound guy to di from my head, my problem comes when i ask if he'd mind micing my cab, for some reason having to plug in a mic and put it infront of my cab is a pain, seeing i use a dirt sound as my main tone it sounds better mic'd

andy

[Mikey R]

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1387716560' post='2314799']
never have a problem getting the sound guy to di from my head, my problem comes when i ask if he'd mind micing my cab, for some reason having to plug in a mic and put it infront of my cab is a pain, seeing i use a dirt sound as my main tone it sounds better mic'd

andy
[/quote]

Hey Andy, yeah the speaker is the important bit in the chain - maybe if you brought your own microphone and just handed the enigineer an XLR?

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1387731338' post='2314975']
Hey Andy, yeah the speaker is the important bit in the chain - maybe if you brought your own microphone and just handed the enigineer an XLR?
[/quote]

now there is an idea!

andy

[Bolo]

Or use a di with speaker modelling...

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='Bolo' timestamp='1387826099' post='2316218']
Or use a di with speaker modelling...
[/quote]

But thats more money to shell out, much more than an sm57

[tauzero]

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1387628118' post='2313931']
Ive youve got the preamp on your pedalboard, theres no way they engineer can bypass it. Its always a struggle convincing the engineer to mic or DI from the amp.
[/quote]

The engineers I've encountered over the last few years are all delighted that I have a DI socket on the amp. The last time one objected was six or seven years ago.