A certain bass guitar whom we shall not name...

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1384620194' post='2278845']
Well I thought I'd try what others often do for a change. Just to see what it was like. In all seriousness though, I was making a point. I've yet to play a Stingray I like. However that doesn't mean I think there's anything wrong with them; they're just not for me, but they're still excellent basses. I really like what they sound like in the hands of others, have considered buying one often, but whenever I play one I don't like it.

So often I read that Rics are 'crap' for whatever reason and all it means is they don't suit, which some people seem to fail to understand.
[/quote]
But the list I have given is not just a Ric knocking for the fun of it list its an answer to the OP to help try and understand why so many people have issues with them, the majority of Rics I have tried had at least a handful of the problems from my list the '78 fireglo had them all. Surely I cant be that unfortunate can I? I like rusty old cars but I understand why others dont and could list the reasons and counter most of them with my biased findings about old cars, its the quirks that I like but I am man enough to admit that those quirks are basically poor fit and finish or just bad design in the first place

[ead]

Was my dream bass until I owned one for twelve months; big disappointment for me personally. Still have a massive soft spot for them though.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='bassmachine2112' timestamp='1384591565' post='2278386']
Don,t let your feelings for somebody get in the way.
Once you,ve bought it it,s got nowt to do with anybody
Necks and bodies have changed over the years but play one for a while and you don,t notice it.
PR skills leave a bit to be desired but hey ho.
Glad I,ve got mine.
[/quote]

One day, matey - though I will buy second-hand, to avoid putting any money directly in his pocket.

I do have an old Rickenfaker with genuine Ric pick-ups, which does a very job of wetting the appetite for the moment. More the pity I can't show you it!

[PJT]

I removed the pick up cover and bought an insert for around the pick up. It comes with a thumb rest and tidies the area up nicely.

[simon1964]

The lack of taper on the neck is odd if you are used to fender style necks. But I actually prefer the feel.

And I have never had a problem with playing finger style. Take the pickup cover off and you're away. If the gap bothers you, the bezels ricsrus sell are pretty cheap and even incorporate a thumb rest.

They are different, and they are quirky, but there's no way I'd part with mine.

[Chiliwailer]

From the age of 15 I had always wanted one, then aged 21 a guy I was playing with bought me one (no, not that kind of playing). I found my month and year of birth bass in a lovely Autumn Glo brown. I was well chuffed until I got familiar with it. No where to put my thumb, a top horn which always dug into my chest and a very strange balance when standing.

I sold it, dream over. Still love them though, especially with a pick and I always liked playing on the couch with it.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Chiliwailer

[steviedee]

This is actually a really pertinent thread for me and I was going to post something on the topic. I have an 80s 4003 and it really was a nightmare to play. I found things that were straightforward on my Stingray just impossible and my playing was clunky. I really dig in when playing fingerstyle, too much if truth be told and I just seemed to make a racket on the rick. It was really demoralising.

After some advice from a Rick owner I switched to heavier guage coatred strings and it was night and day the sound of the bass and playability completely improved. I did some recording with it, using a pick, and if I say so myself the tone of the bass was quite simpy awesome. I DIed the bass and the engineer did some reamping and it just sounded perfect for the track. However, I still found my Ray much easier to play and just defaulted back to playing that. But and I don't know if this makes any difference I decided to start using my Wal, which I also found harder to play than the Ray but I was looking for a specific type of tone. Anyway after a while I was really comfortable with the Wal and just yesterday I dug the Rick out. I'm in a prog band and thought I'll persevere with it as it's the iconic proggie bass and for some unfathomable reason I found it extremely easy to play and I'm absolutely loving it. Granted it's not as versatile as othetr basses but it does a couple of unique things really well.

I dunno what the moral is maybe when you step away from something for a while your less stressed about trying to get it to work and it comes easier. In saying that I wish there was an easier way to fix the f***ing intonation!

Edited November 16, 2013 by steviedee

[gsgbass]

On my 4003, if I want the 4001 sound, i pull the bridge tone knob up. That gives it a Classic Sound. (4001). The neck is more consistent in girth. With smaller hands and fingers, I don't grip, or wrap with my thumb around the neck. It plays great!

[4000]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384595777' post='2278447']
I have lusted over many a Ric, tried almost everyone I have seen in the shops, borrowed one and gigged it with a view to buying it as it was a good year and colour combination and at a bargain price, I had the cash to spare yet still gave it back!

My biased findings so far....
1- Neck dive.
2- Nastycheap feel to the machine head tuners operation.
3- Fingerboard not following the main neck along its length properly as if it has shunk or something.
4- Body edges that you can shave with.
5- Poorly finished bindings compared to a Gibson Les Paul.
6- Pickup cover in the way, its right where I want to play especially with a pick (same goes for a Jazz with its covers on).
7- Remove cover and you are left with a crude metal finger grater.
8- Big clumsy bridge often swapped for something more accuratley adjustable.
9- Looks awesome and almost worth buying especially if you get offered a 70's one in fireglo red on the cheap, [i]almost.[/i]
[/quote]
To answer your points, obviously these are things that you feel you've experienced, but most of them are completely subjective. I've had 13 or 14 Rics and have played or used literally hundreds over 33 years:

1) Never played one that I considered to neck dive. They sit exactly where I want a bass to sit.
2) The only tuner issues I've experienced have been on some of the old flat/wavy grovers which they haven't used for years.
3) Never, ever experienced that. I once bought a '73 via mail order where the fingerboard had separated but the bass had obviously been seriously water damaged and went straight back (thanks Guitar Village, not....).
4)Never had a problem with the body edges, unlike the contouring on a Jazz, Stingray or Status which I find excruciating.
5) Never had an issue with the binding; ditto Les Pauls, which are my favourite guitars. I find Strats uncomfortable in almost every way.
6) Learnt to play with the pickup cover in place so it's never been an issue. Neither of my '72s came with covers but I'm on the lookout for some (they're slightly different dimensions than the new ones).
7)Never had the slightest issue with the surround for finger style.
8) Bridge is marmite, I'll give you that. ;-)
9)I'll agree they look awesome, although my favourite finish is Azureglo. ;-)

If I did a similar list for a Stingray, I'd say:
1) Horribly uncomfortable forearm contouring.
2)Generally uncomfortably heavy, although there are exceptions.
3) Sit in the wrong place and at the wrong angle for me.
4)Don't like the neck profiles.
5)String spacing far too wide
Etc etc.

If I did a similar list for Fenders, I've only owned one that hasn't had major neck issues, and that would just be the start....

[steviedee]

I like my wavy Grovers!

[stingrayPete1977]

Id say you are in a massive minority with finding a sharp edged bass the only comfortable bass, I know you had told me about it before but in reality virtually everyone on bass chat will find at least a rounded slab like my classicray more comfortable, even I prefer the full contours of my other stingrays bodies.

Like lots of things we get to know more about we learn that not all things are the same for each model, which stingray profile didnt you like for example, the early deep c shape or the early flat D shape, the ebmm clubby shaped one or the jazz width Slo special for example

[stingrayPete1977]

My list is a list of actual faults i have had other than the pickup cover position which is not a fault as such but does put off many players even if its only enough to remove it rather than not buy one, your list is totally subjective to your personal needs which I respect but dont find as a comparison to my gripes with the rics I have tried to love.

[stingrayPete1977]

1- Poor neck stability on ebmm versions with unfinished necks.
2- Some shoddy fret levelling from new (my own 2010 ray 5).
3- Low output from preamp (my classicray, swapped for a john east).
4- Finish cracking and crazing on 70s basses (cool to some, gash to others).
5- Weak G phenomenon, never had it myself but others swear by it.
6- Batteries being eaten by faulty preamps, quite rare but it can happen.
7- Faulty jacks, happens to most basses but the ray has an extra tab for the circuit.
8- Some bridge saddles pull to one side or let the string jump out of the groove.

Im sure there are other faults but you get the idea, they are actual faults rather than the weight or body shape, string spacing etc, those are things it is meant to leave the factory with like the Ric pickup cover.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384632750' post='2279030']
Id say you are in a massive minority with finding a sharp edged bass the only comfortable bass, I know you had told me about it before but in reality virtually everyone on bass chat will find at least a rounded slab like my classicray more comfortable, even I prefer the full contours of my other stingrays bodies.

Like lots of things we get to know more about we learn that not all things are the same for each model, which stingray profile didnt you like for example, the early deep c shape or the early flat D shape, the ebmm clubby shaped one or the jazz width Slo special for example
[/quote]
I tried a rickenbacker today for the first time. I wasn't blown away but I also had no problem with the body... thinking about it.... when I'm playing my arm doesn't ever touch the body on most basses..... how does that happen - I find it impossible to even play touching the body without putting a kink in my wrist.

[gsgbass]

I got into lately not touching the top of the body with my arm at all. It changes the angle of my hand, and puts it more directly over the top of the strings.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1384636059' post='2279088']

I tried a rickenbacker today for the first time. I wasn't blown away but I also had no problem with the body... thinking about it.... when I'm playing my arm doesn't ever touch the body on most basses..... how does that happen - I find it impossible to even play touching the body without putting a kink in my wrist.
[/quote]
everyone has a different style and strap height, everyones arms not the same length, playing with the thumb up by the neck joint for example.

[4000]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384632948' post='2279033']
My list is a list of actual faults i have had other than the pickup cover position which is not a fault as such but does put off many players even if its only enough to remove it rather than not buy one, your list is totally subjective to your personal needs which I respect but dont find as a comparison to my gripes with the rics I have tried to love.
[/quote]

So your issue with neck dive (obviously subjective given I've never experienced it), body shape/contouring, binding etc are actual faults? I think not. The fingerboard issue is a fault but neck/fingerboard issues are hardly unique to Rics are they? My first Wal (lauded for their build quality) hadn't had the fingerboard levelled properly. Even the "big, clumsy bridge" is a matter of opinion, and it's not like Rays have never had those is it? ;-)

Edited November 16, 2013 by 4000

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1384601350' post='2278532']
From what is probably a biased point of view seeing how I own one, I have found only that the pickup cover is in the way for my playing, so I removed that and [b]the surround is a tad sharp on the old digits[/b]. I find the build quality is exceptional, [b]the feel of the neck is great, I can set it up exactly how I want it and it'll always stay in tune and the intonation is great on it.[/b]
....
[/quote]

This (referring to my '72 4001). However the bridge (while functional) is a let down.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Ou7shined

[4000]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384632750' post='2279030']
Id say you are in a massive minority with finding a sharp edged bass the only comfortable bass, I know you had told me about it before but in reality virtually everyone on bass chat will find at least a rounded slab like my classicray more comfortable, even I prefer the full contours of my other stingrays bodies.

Like lots of things we get to know more about we learn that not all things are the same for each model, which stingray profile didnt you like for example, the early deep c shape or the early flat D shape, the ebmm clubby shaped one or the jazz width Slo special for example
[/quote]

Every Ray I've tried (dozens, from originals through the gamut of EBs to Classics) has had a neck I haven't really got on with. Same as all the many varied Jazzes, all of which I've found horrible. Although to clarify the only Ric necks I really love belong to basses from '72 and earlier.

FWIW I realise I'm in the minority finding a bound instrument more comfortable but it's still a perfectly valid perspective to point out. Why are people so quick to point out the "failings" of Rics and so quick to dismiss a perfectly valid counter-argument?

[4000]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384632750' post='2279030']


Like lots of things we get to know more about we learn that not all things are the same for each model, which stingray profile didnt you like for example, the early deep c shape or the early flat D shape, the ebmm clubby shaped one or the jazz width Slo special for example
[/quote]

You do realise that Ric necks (and even body sizes/shapes) vary from year to year and even month to month? And that not all Rics are bound (4000, S-types, C-series, CS, V63, 4004)? And that most of the "issues" you mention are addressed in the 4004 (which ironically I found less comfortable)? Rhetorical question BTW. ;-)

[Gust0o]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1384642335' post='2279162']
Why are people so quick to point out the "failings" of Rics and so quick to dismiss a perfectly valid counter-argument?
[/quote]

Well, I would have said "brand damage", but gsgbass would be along to correct me

I do think that's the case, however - such is the prevailing opinion, that I think people are quick to find fault and slow to award praise.

Not seen a 4004 in the flesh. Would certainly like to try one.

[Lasermonkey]

Can't say I have ever found anything to fault on my '73 4001. The action is great, intonation spot-on, it's comfortable to play (I do have it slung pretty low) and I find it very versatile, tone wise. I never found the pickup surround at all sharp, though I ended up re-fitting the cover as I actually find it quite useful as a hand rest!
I wouldn't swap it for anything else.

[martthebass]

For every person who loves a Ric/Ray there will be someone with the exact opposing view. It's probably something to do with the 3rd law of thermodynamics. As Geddy said 'different hearts have different strings'.

[Ou7shined]

I love my Ric and I love my 'ray. Being comfortable with one doesn't exclude me from the other. They are just two very good tools getting me from A to B. Like riding a bike one day instead of taking the car. I get flies in my teeth with one but not the other... it doesn't mean I should never use it. Of course some days there are very real reasons why you shouldn't take the bike - for example they don't sound right for RATM.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Jigster' timestamp='1384548415' post='2278143']
...is oft cited as being a difficult play. Why so? I would appreciate any feedback/opinion?

*Apologies if there are previous threads. Feel free to point me to them"
[/quote]

The biggest problem most bassists have with a Rickenbacker is that they are not a Fender bass.

They see lots of well-known players getting great sounds out of them and basses are very iconic looking in themselves. However the whole design and construction philosophy behind Rickenbacker owes virtually nothing to Leo Fender. So of course it's going to be different. That's the whole point. If you've spent your whole playing life playing instruments that are deign one way you can't really expect to be immediately comfortable on one built in a completely different style and that also may require you to think about your band's overall mix in a different way to find it's place sonically.

It seems to me that what most people really want is a Fender bass with the image of a Rickenbacker holographically laid over the top of it.