What new high-quality PA system for pub band?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1383145740' post='2260770']
I'd go for an AKG d112 used if in a budget,

I uses a Shure Beta 52a or an Audix D6. Personally I prefer the Shure, so it is the one I own, but you can't go wrong with the AKG for your needs.
[/quote]

Coupled with a SubKick?! :P:P

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1383146326' post='2260780']


Coupled with a SubKick?! :P:P
[/quote]

Haha.

My Genista needs no help lol

[redstriper]

This is very similar to the system we use.
The pre sets for vocals and instruments are good starting points and the combination of gates, compressors, EQ and FX on each channel are very handy.

I look forward to hearing how you get on

Edit:
We use a cheap drum mic from a T.Bone set from Thomman, it's the same drum mics we've used on all our albums and we're very happy with the sound.

Edited October 30, 2013 by redstriper

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1383145347' post='2260760']
Of couse, me writing this is all meaningless if you still have me on block!
[/quote]

I've forgotten it ever happened. That was then. I will expect a meaningful comment on the video review I'm doing and posting at the weekend though.

Edited October 30, 2013 by The Dark Lord

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1383160566' post='2261045']


I've forgotten it ever happened. That was then. I will expect a meaningful comment on the video review I'm doing and posting at the weekend though.
[/quote]

Ok... I'll try...

[The Dark Lord]

Update before new "review" thread.

Picked the PA up yesterday. It's as follows:[list]
[*]2 x DLM12 tops
[*]1 x DLM12S sub
[*]an extra DLM12 as a floor monitor (was gonna get the DLM8 for that, but then thought "what the hell"
[*]DL806 digital mixer with iPad interface (no need to go for the 16 channel version for my application)
[/list]
Also got a couple of speaker poles and a bag - plus all of the bags and covers for all of the speakers and the mixer.

I'll spare you the "unboxing video" but let's say it took some time. It comes in huuuuge boxes with plenty of padding everywhere - so unlikely that these will be damaged in transit. All looks fine right out of the box. Although, you will struggle to get these home in those boxes unless you have a large estate or van.

It's all plugged in and assembled in my library and ready to be put through its paces tonight and to perform a pre-set up for tomorrow's gig.

Unfortunately, only the bag for the mixer came with them. The others are stuck in transit and will be 10 days or so.

Three things that I noticed from the off:[list=1]
[*]There are no manuals in the boxes (other than electrical safety instructions). Although, they are online as pdf docs.
[*]You need a specialist tool to add and remove the iPad - which was supplied. However, there is nowhere on the unit or in the unit's custom gig bag to store the tool. If you lose the tool, your iPad stays there forever .... or until you buy a new tool. Hmmmm
[*]If you want to use the iPad, another iPad (or up to 10 iPhones etc) to control the mixer remotely, you need to buy a separate wireless access point to plug into the unit. That's a bit of a "miss" as it surely it could transmit its own wireless signal?
[/list]
Anyway, hopefully will post a video review after Friday's gig.

Edited October 31, 2013 by The Dark Lord

[redstriper]

Be careful not to blow all your books off the shelves - it's loud!

I downloaded the manuals before purchase to get an idea of what to expect, but it seems a bit mean not to include them in the boxes.

You will need to download the iPad app and get used to it's functions.

The special tool may be to prevent anyone nicking the i-Pad when you're not looking.

It would have been nice if the router was part of the mixer, but if there was a problem with the router the whole mixer would have to go in for service.
A router may not be included to save costs, because not everyone wants to use the mixer that way and a cheap second hand router should work fine.

There are lots of tutorials on youtube etc. - keep us updated

[EBS_freak]

Routers arent included because a ) its an added expense for Mackie... and b ) if your mixer starts taking out other wifi services, Mackie isn't liable.

Edited October 31, 2013 by EBS_freak

[redstriper]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1383252645' post='2262299']
Routers arent included because a ) its an added expense for Mackie... and b ) if your mixer starts taking out other wifi services, Mackie isn't liable.
[/quote]

Obvious really, but it's not a big problem - just get a cheap router or don't use one at all.

We played a gig last night with the Mackie rig and didn't use a router.
The sound guy was on stage with us using the mixer to add dub effects, which was nice.

[timbass]

Don't buy Bose, because we'll lose our USP!
We use 2 x Bose L1 with 4 x b1 behind our 4-piece blues & R&B band with other back-line amplification for Yamaha dig-drums, slide guitar (15W Marshall to produce nice valve harmonic distortion) and bass (250W Phil Jones Suitcase plus Roland Cube). So all the vocals, sax, hammond, piano and a proportion of the back-line go through the Bose. All the band and our audiences think its the best sounding PA on our circuit (up to 300 crowd). It is plenty loud (1500W RMS gives plenty of headroom) and feedback from the 3 Shure vocal and sax condenser mic is not a problem plus it carries clear sound right to the back of the room. Very unlike the focussed searchlight blast you get from usual PA gear. Please listen before you buy, preferably in comparison with other PAs (speakers in front of the band and needing monitors). I also use the same rig for a jazz quartet and we love the quality (rarely need to turn it above about 20% full volume) I spent an hour playing bass, guitar, keyboards and my standard IPod PA test tracks through a demo Bose in NYC before I was converted. We have used it at several weddings with crowds of 200 plus to good effect. At home it is the best HiFi Stereo system I have ever had (and I have had a few).
No don't buy Bose, if everyone knows how good they are, we'll lose out!

[EBS_freak]

Not being funny - but it sounds like the application you are using your Bose system for is not the same as what the OP wants to use his for. Stated in the thread, the Bose works well with on stage instruments being at low volume. The fact that you say you are using a digital drumkit, low wattage guitar amp and low volume bass amp suggests that your on stage volume is pretty low to start with. Again, in your next example, Jazz quartet PA demands are not in the same ballpark as a rock band. Glad that the PA works for you... but I stand by what the rest of the thread is hinting towards, the Bose will not cut it with a loud band... and having been there, you won't convince me any other way!

[Kevin Dean]

I haven't seen EV mentioned & I've just ordered spme of there speakers ..I hope I haven't made a huge mistake .

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1383566266' post='2265856']
I stand by what the rest of the thread is hinting towards, the Bose will not cut it with a loud band... and having been there, you won't convince me any other way!
[/quote]+1. A friend of mine is a keyboard/vocal single act who has an L1. It's fine for what he does in the small clubs he works in. When he sits in with my band he still uses the L1, but only for his keyboards as a backline rig. Just for the heck of it he once tried to run his vocals through it, rather than my PA. It really was like bringing a knife to a gunfight, and a small pocket knife at that.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1461188501' post='3032368']
I haven't seen EV mentioned & I've just ordered spme of there speakers ..I hope I haven't made a huge mistake .
[/quote]

They are good speakers if you got them at a decent price. I did a shoot out a couple of years back and they were more articulate than the JBL's, warmer and more 'natural sounding' (struggling for the right words there) than the Yamahas. The RCF's however give a lot more detail in the vocals and are freer of resonances especially the ones with the larger horn drivers, but at a higher price than the others.

I've heard a lot of local bands using EV's to good effect.

[luckydog]

[QUOTE]Or, does someone have a suggestion? Great quality sound, very portable, loud enough for pub gigs up to about 300 people, money no object.[/QUOTE]IMO the most important part of a great sounding PA is the engineer - so if you want to sound great and take the whole burden from the band, first stop is a great engineer as a non-playing member of the band - he'll need need paying and feeding, but it's worth it and makes an enormous contribution to sound and the band's performance because you just know it's gonna sound great !

As to hardware, well check out KV2 or Martin Audio for speakers/monitors. Get good monitors and subs. Spend yer money on speakers, mics and flight cases. Play quietly enough to let the engineer have control of FOH, relax and enjoy as will everyone.

Wow, I love a money no object brief !

LD

[EBS_freak]

Holy thread revival!

[JTUK]

[quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1461224474' post='3032527']
IMO the most important part of a great sounding PA is the engineer - so if you want to sound great and take the whole burden from the band, first stop is a great engineer as a non-playing member of the band - he'll need need paying and feeding, but it's worth it and makes an enormous contribution to sound and the band's performance because you just know it's gonna sound great !

As to hardware, well check out KV2 or Martin Audio for speakers/monitors. Get good monitors and subs. Spend yer money on speakers, mics and flight cases. Play quietly enough to let the engineer have control of FOH, relax and enjoy as will everyone.

Wow, I love a money no object brief !

LD
[/quote]

A decent engr isn't going to work for pub money. So if you get anyone to do it, you'll have to educate and teach him.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1461188501' post='3032368']
I haven't seen EV mentioned & I've just ordered spme of there speakers ..I hope I haven't made a huge mistake .
[/quote]
That's because this topic was finished before the EV company was founded ...

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1461233460' post='3032644']
A decent engr isn't going to work for pub money. So if you get anyone to do it, you'll have to educate and teach him.
[/quote]For many years the bands I was in had an engineer, taught by me, who received an equal share.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1461238691' post='3032734']
For many years the bands I was in had an engineer, taught by me, who received an equal share.
[/quote]

Equal share of what tho? Pub money will be from £50... no decent engr is going to work for that...and even if they did, it would be
a one-off favour.
I'd say if the band knew what they were doing they could self mix smaller gigs better than getting someone who doesn't know anything, twiddle nobs..

If the gig pays well enough, put the engr'd P.A hire on the bill and they rig it...

[Dad3353]

Just as there are amateur bassists (weekend warriors...), there are also amateur sound guys. I know several; most of them are very competent, especially in venues such as pubs and the like. The Royal Albert Hall with a full orchestra would be off the scale for most, but for pub rock (and more...), I'd have no trouble rounding up a couple of volunteers, either benevolent, or for pocket money. It's not [i]that [/i]hard to learn, either, if the fellow's keen and willing, and has anything like a decent set of ears. Not the same for a national touring band, I'll allow.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Dad3353

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1461252136' post='3032924']
Equal share of what tho? Pub money will be from £50... no decent engr is going to work for that...
[/quote]One could make the argument that no decent musician would either.
Engineers are just like any other artist. You do it because you love it. If you do manage a living at it all the better.

[sunburstjazz1967]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1461255731' post='3032982']
One could make the argument that no decent musician would either.
Engineers are just like any other artist. You do it because you love it. If you do manage a living at it all the better.
[/quote]

Touché :-D

If the question is PA, the answer is always RCF ;-)

Edited April 21, 2016 by sunburstjazz1967

[JTUK]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1461255731' post='3032982']
One could make the argument that no decent musician would either.
Engineers are just like any other artist. You do it because you love it. If you do manage a living at it all the better.
[/quote]

Well, you could say that... but a bit churlish to do so when that might apply to the vast majority on the forum..
I'd say you could get top class players for around £80 around here but it would be a pick-up gig for them and not a committment
which is a BIG difference.

No problem putting engrs on the bill but you have to have the gig and money for it, IMO.
but that would also rule out 80% of the engr guys I've come across as they wouldn't be worth the money unless you consider them
general crew/engrs and the drove and rigged.

[Dan Dare]

I'd suggest you don't need a separate engineer for pub/bar jobs. I play bass and engineer (and we get plenty of compliments for the sound) for my band. Good kit helps (I use a Fohhn PA, which is powerful and portable and set up in 20 mins).