thebassman Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I guess this could be asked of any other cab manufacturer really. I am looking at replacing my 2x12 cab with either a single 1x12 or maybe a pair of 1x12's. I have been reading on the Barefaced site, new Gen 3, about one of their 1x12 cabs equalling or beating a good 2x12 or 4x10 for loudness. Will this still apply to overall perceived volume? Will the old statement of "it's all about surface area" still not apply?, i.e. needing more cones. Also would a 1x12 on it's own need to be mounted on a stand/ box/ beer crate? so you can get it nearer your ears. I always use my own cab for on stage monitoring, we haven't got a good enough PA for me to go through the fold back. cheers thebassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I have used 112 cabs for 4 years and I would never play a loud gig with just one 112 cab. I would always use 2 because more really is more. The sound of 2 cabs running at half power is so much bigger and better than the sound of 1 cab running flat out. Alex's cabs are designed differently and he is saying 1 of his 112 cabs equals 2 of the competition’s. I would believe him, but right now 2 BB2 cabs look very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Two ways to get sound pressure level: 1. Increase the number of cones. This is the Ampeg 8x10 method for example. 2. Make a speaker cone with increased throw — the ability to move back and forth like a piston. The greater this distance, the greater the volume of air you are moving, also called volume displacement.. Barefaced cabs have always put some emphasis on the volume displacement of the drivers they use. Their new driver in the new cabs improves on this ability substantially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I know you said either 1x12 or 2x12 but have you looked at the S12? I bought one (needing something loud and good sounding so pulled the trigger) and its great. Light as hell (one hand lift!) and louder than hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Personally, I'd opt for a Berg CN212. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 There are two halves to it - max loudness (basically the mids) is down to sensitivity + thermal power handling, whilst max low frequency output (high SPL fatness) is down to the cone area x cone excursion (assuming the port can keep up). Max loudness is what limits PA tops whilst max LF output is what limits PA subs. For most bass players the max LF SPL is the main limitation but if you're in a LOUD band and tend to play through big PAs where there's bleed from the subs then the max loudness tends to be the limitation. Ignoring what tweeters are doing because they're mostly irrelevant, it's not often a bass player will reach their limits, it comes down to the drivers be they 10", 12", 15" etc. http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/12XN550.htm From what I've seen from photos of the innards the various Berg neo 12"s have been 2512-II or 12PR300 based designs, hence the comparison as I believe they represent the best of the 'boutique' manufacturers available in retailers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1380550315' post='2226903'] Ignoring what tweeters are doing because they're mostly irrelevant... [/quote] I am so going to be quoting this out of context! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Raising a cab too much can cause a significant loss of loudness; I found that with the BF Midget on a keyboard stand. Something to do with boundary reinforcement etc. Tilting it up works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1380549443' post='2226881'] Personally, I'd opt for a Berg CN212. [/quote] +1 awesome piece of kit, not cheap but hey ho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I think the CN112 series is a step up on the AE series... but what Berg tend to do well is put overall tone above things like SPL. I tend to think SPL the least important thing in a cab/chassis spec. Want more volume, turn up, add another cab.... but there is no way out of too much bass...and you can certainly have too much bass, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1380568029' post='2227261'].... but there is no way out of too much bass...and you can certainly have too much bass, IMO.[/quote] Really? I thought most amps had both bass knobs and volume knobs which could be turned anticlockwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 SPL for the sake of it is a bit pointless, but high levels of clean SPL are worth having. Why? Because you have headroom without getting into speaker distortion. You know that chucking that bottom B at it isn't going to induce any trace of fart-out. Do that and also built a cab that doesn't color the sound, and you have something very flexible, right through the SPL range. One cab, one lot of cost... pretty much any venue covered. The inference is that BF compromise the 'tone' by aiming at a high SPL. The high SPL is a by-product of the overall cab design, rather than the goal. Having said that, there is no doubting that Bergs do sound good though, and each cab purchaser should look at a range of cabs before buying one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey R Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) The BF cabs are very well engineeed, they do lightweight, high power handling, high sensitivity as well as sounding great. I just wanted to debunk the myth that BF went after SPL at the expense of tone. Edited September 30, 2013 by Mikey R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I think a lot of it is down to personal taste and also matching kit. I am always really careful to make sure there is synergy between amp cab and bass, some combinations work others don't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 [quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1380571567' post='2227368'] The BF cabs are very well engineeed, they do lightweight, high power handling, high sensitivity as well as sounding great. I just wanted to debunk the myth that BF went after SPL at the expense of tone. [/quote] Think its more they leave the tone to you, rather than enforcing a tone of their own. They respond to EQ and playing technique, which can result in bad tone for people with poor playing and eq skills, that might rely on coloured rigs with limited EQ to cover those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1380569631' post='2227309'] Really? I thought most amps had both bass knobs and volume knobs which could be turned anticlockwise? [/quote] Beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1380573053' post='2227402'] Think its more they leave the tone to you, rather than enforcing a tone of their own. They respond to EQ and playing technique, which can result in bad tone for people with poor playing and eq skills, that might rely on coloured rigs with limited EQ to cover those things. [/quote] But why do people always mention the 'poor technique' thing....its quite derogatory. It sounds like people are saying 'my cab isn't coloured thus I'm a better player'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1380576503' post='2227475'] But why do people always mention the 'poor technique' thing....its quite derogatory. It sounds like people are saying 'my cab isn't coloured thus I'm a better player'. [/quote] Its a pretty big factor. Tone is in the fingers and all. Like making guitarists play clean. My clean cabs show my bad playing, really, really loudly. Edited September 30, 2013 by Mr. Foxen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) hmmmm lots of bass in a cab and you think that doesn't mask technique.... that is laughable, It certainly doesn't expose it... it is probably the reason why a lot of people would want exactly that.. This is a general pov and not aimed at any one cab maker ..as was my first comment. I would have been quite happy to post that POV..maybe should have done.. in another thread. Edited September 30, 2013 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1380576503' post='2227475'] But why do people always mention the 'poor technique' thing....its quite derogatory. It sounds like people are saying 'my cab isn't coloured thus I'm a better player'. [/quote] because if you learn to play in a certain style and then play through a full range bass cab -[b] or through a PA[/b] then any deficiencies in your playing, in timing, and the attack you give the strings, and how you move your hands over the fretboard will become a lot clearer than through a more coloured cab.... the counter argument would ask how much that matters in a live mix.... I had a similar thing with my warwick. I went from playing P bass through a warm valvey head into a warm middy cab to playing my warwick into a trace elliot combo at church... apart from sounding like we were back in the 80's the active pickups, the Eq and the bass had such a bright tone and fast attack it sounded like a machine gun... but that quickness of attack really showed up the timing issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1380577545' post='2227499'] because if you learn to play in a certain style and then play through a full range bass cab -[b] or through a PA[/b] then any deficiencies in your playing, in timing, and the attack you give the strings, and how you move your hands over the fretboard will become a lot clearer than through a more coloured cab.... the counter argument would ask how much that matters in a live mix.... I had a similar thing with my warwick. I went from playing P bass through a warm valvey head into a warm middy cab to playing my warwick into a trace elliot combo at church... apart from sounding like we were back in the 80's the active pickups, the Eq and the bass had such a bright tone and fast attack it sounded like a machine gun... but that quickness of attack really showed up the timing issues. [/quote] Oh I get it...usually a clean amp like a Genz Shuttle does exactly the same thing through headphones, especially with a zingy Stingray....I just think it goes a little too far. You are either a decent player or you aren't. Edited October 1, 2013 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skychaserhigh Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 When I first got my vanderkley cab I realised how sloppy my playing was at times !! A clear and detailed cab can really make you aware of your technique and can be quite unforgiving. I really like this though as apart from helping my playing it means I can hear what I'm playing without resorting to massive volume when things get noisy on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 When I went from Ashdown to Genz a few years ago I knew my playing was very sloppy within a few gigs, unfortunately it still is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380627262' post='2227989'] When I went from Ashdown to Genz a few years ago I knew my playing was very sloppy within a few gigs, unfortunately it still is [/quote] At least the risk of fire is way down now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebassman Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1380581268' post='2227559'] Oh I get it...usually a clean amp like a Genz Shuttle does exactly the same thing through headphones, especially with a zingy Stingray....I just think it goes a little too far. You are either a decent player or you aren't. [/quote] That's a bit worrying, i play through a Genz Shuttlmax and a zingy Stingray, so a clean cab may display my poor technique . I currently use a Mesa 2x12 powerhouse cab, and love the tone of this combination. I am after something a bit lighter and more manageable, that's why i was looking at maybe either a 1x12 cab on it's own or maybe a pair of 1x12's. I guess i could just get a light 2x12. cheers thebassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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