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Do precisions really work in any music?

bassist_lewis

By bassist_lewis,
in Bass Guitars

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BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

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[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1367163472' post='2061961']
I could do that , no problem if I had any equipment to film myself with . Unfortunately , after the whole Paris Hilton / Kim Kardashian / Pamela Anderson sex tape scandal phenomena Mrs Dingus has got a complete ban on any video recording equipment in the household . But why on earth do you think a Precision style bass wouldn't be appropriate for that music ? Do you actually know how a Precision Bass sounds and can sound in the right hands ? Are you telling me that if Pino Palladino or Freddie Washington was hired by the artist to play bass on that track and they turned up with their Precision Bass that they wouldn't be able to do an appropriate job ? How so ? The track is crying ut for some bottom end , and a Precision Bass will always give you that . Even if you wanted some more adventurous and melodic playing , a Precision can do that too . Why wouldn't a bass that can sound like this sound good on that track ? :

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh85DA5w8V4[/media]

To me a Precision is a pretty neutral sounding bass , kind of the closet sound you can get to the sound of the lower strings on an acoustic guitar . Are you sure that you aren't making the mistake of associating the Fender Precision with it's vintage heritage going back to the 1950's and therefore having trouble relating it to this example of a decidedly post-modern music form , when in fact , judged purely on its' sonic qualities , a Precision Bass would be a perfectly good - perhaps even ideal - bass to use on that track ?
[/quote]

In the end it's all subjective.

The track I posted has plenty of nice electronic generated bottom end if you are listening to the CD on your hifi rather than the YouTube compressed audio on a computer. I can't imagine what any kind of bass guitar would add in a positive way to it.

And there I think lies the crux of the matter. A large proportion of the music I listen to is mostly electronic. The idea of using something as imprecise (pun intended) as a stringed instrument to provide the bottom end is simply (to me) unthinkable as it just wouldn't have sufficient power or tonal control to sound correct in the overall context of the track. And while you could probably do something with effects, I'm a great believer in using the right tools to do the job in the most efficient manner, and a keyboard or computer driven synth will win every time in cases like this.

As for the idea that someone like Pino could add a worthwhile bass part to this track - just don't know. I've never heard him play any music I actually like, so while it appears that he has the technical ability to produce the notes, I don't know if he has the right musical taste to play something appropriate. This is something that has been very much re-enforced recently while auditioning replacement musicians for my band. We've had to turn down several hopefuls who had all the musical "chops" to play the parts that had been written by their predecessors, but when asked to come up with their own ideas for new songs we were working on, seemingly had neither the taste or the musical knowledge to play anything even remotely appropriate.

And the track you posted, I'm sorry but I found everything about that to be depressingly bland - especially musically and tonally. I suppose it would be fine if you just need something to add a bit of weight behind the guitar(s), but for me each instrument should make a more significant tonal contribution than that. Again this may come from the years I spent programming and playing synths, where every sound on every song was individually fashioned and tweaked to fit together as a whole.

There is a place for the P-bass in music (although not really in anything I play) but to say that it fits with any music is naive to say the least.

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D.I. Joe Collaborator

D.I. Joe

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1367182126' post='2062372']
In the end it's all subjective.

The track I posted has plenty of nice electronic generated bottom end if you are listening to the CD on your hifi rather than the YouTube compressed audio on a computer. I can't imagine what any kind of bass guitar would add in a positive way to it.

And there I think lies the crux of the matter. A large proportion of the music I listen to is mostly electronic. The idea of using something as imprecise (pun intended) as a stringed instrument to provide the bottom end is simply (to me) unthinkable as it just wouldn't have sufficient power or tonal control to sound correct in the overall context of the track. And while you could probably do something with effects, I'm a great believer in using the right tools to do the job in the most efficient manner, and a keyboard or computer driven synth will win every time in cases like this.

As for the idea that someone like Pino could add a worthwhile bass part to this track - just don't know. I've never heard him play any music I actually like, so while it appears that he has the technical ability to produce the notes, I don't know if he has the right musical taste to play something appropriate. This is something that has been very much re-enforced recently while auditioning replacement musicians for my band. We've had to turn down several hopefuls who had all the musical "chops" to play the parts that had been written by their predecessors, but when asked to come up with their own ideas for new songs we were working on, seemingly had neither the taste or the musical knowledge to play anything even remotely appropriate.

And the track you posted, I'm sorry but I found everything about that to be depressingly bland - especially musically and tonally. I suppose it would be fine if you just need something to add a bit of weight behind the guitar(s), but for me each instrument should make a more significant tonal contribution than that. Again this may come from the years I spent programming and playing synths, where every sound on every song was individually fashioned and tweaked to fit together as a whole.

There is a place for the P-bass in music (although not really in anything I play) but to say that it fits with any music is naive to say the least.
[/quote]

But in this example, don't you think it would be fairer to conclude that there is a place for the bass guitar, rather than single out the Precision?

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BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

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[quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1367185687' post='2062424']
But in this example, don't you think it would be fairer to conclude that there is a place for the bass guitar, rather than single out the Precision?
[/quote]

Don't you mean "But in this example, don't you think it would be fairer to conclude that there is [b]NO[/b] place for the bass guitar, rather than single out the Precision?"

And if that is the case, then yes. To me the original question is just one of those bollocks clichés that musicians come out with, without having first put their brains into gear. Along with "Leo got it right" "Jaco didn't need more than 4 strings" "there's no money above the 5th fret" and so on.

You could say that you can make a precision bass do the job in most music that has the need for a bass guitar, but there is at least as much music around that has no place for the electric bass guitar and that excludes the P-bass as much as any other.

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D.I. Joe Collaborator

D.I. Joe

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1367223627' post='2062628']
You could say that you can make a precision bass do the job in most music that has the need for a bass guitar,[b] but there is at least as much music around that has no place for the electric bass guitar and that excludes the P-bass as much as any other.[/b]
[/quote]

That's what I meant to say :)

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Musicman20 Grand Master

Musicman20

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Posted (edited)

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1367223627' post='2062628']
To me the original question is just one of those bollocks clichés that musicians come out with, without having first put their brains into gear. Along with "Leo got it right" "Jaco didn't need more than 4 strings" "there's no money above the 5th fret" and so on.

You could say that you can make a precision bass do the job in most music that has the need for a bass guitar, but there is at least as much music around that has no place for the electric bass guitar and that excludes the P-bass as much as any other.
[/quote]

Ay, a sensible and modern approach to the topic. I agree.

It is, at the moment, 'fashionable' to use a Precision bass, (I realise they are always popular, but you know where I am coming from). It is also the time for flatwounds and getting that 'oldschool thump that only a P bass can do'.

Every day a new topic appears on Talkbass saying they rediscovered the P bass, and that they will probably only use a P bass from now on. A P bass does work as an instrument, and can nail a classic 'bass guitar' sound on a recording.

BUT, and this is a big but, it is just a simple bass. I own one, and it sounds great, but my word, they can get boring after a while. Cool as they are, and try as you might, they won't get you a super tight, aggressive and middy bridge pickup tone.

I still personally think the Stingray is much more versatile, and much more exciting to play!

Edited by Musicman20
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discreet Grand Master

discreet

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Posted (edited)

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1367228044' post='2062683']
...if your guitar is a nice colour, all the better!
[/quote]

Finally! After four pages, we come to what's important about bass guitars.
My view is this: Bass guitars, particularly P-Basses, should be WHITE - or a variation thereof. That is all.

They just don't sound proper otherwise. :P

Edited by discreet
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spongebob Mentor

spongebob

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Posted (edited)

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1367228044' post='2062683']
So outside of the bass-nerd world, frankly nobody knows or gives a toss whether you play a P or a custom 9-string. So long as the track is 'good'... and if your guitar is a nice colour, all the better!
[/quote]

+1!

TBH I've primarily used Rics all of my band/gigging life, in a variety of styles and genre. I think as long as you are comfy and confident with your bass of choice, that's enough!

I like to think I have my kind of tone, and if that wasn't right or acceptable, then I wouldn't be the right player for the gig.

Edited by spongebob
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Musicman20 Grand Master

Musicman20

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[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1367227997' post='2062681']
So, many years after inventing the Precision, Leo was still 'getting it right' ;)
[/quote]

Ay, no denying that the P, J and Ray are where its at, (although variations work for me as well, more so on the Ray variation).

I just think the P is a little boring compared to the Ray...

I do think the evolution of the Ray is important through. My current HH Ray, 3 band Eq, is just flat out stunning. Versatile, and the best single H tone I've heard.

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Dingus Experienced

Dingus

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1367182126' post='2062372']
In the end it's all subjective.

The track I posted has plenty of nice electronic generated bottom end if you are listening to the CD on your hifi rather than the YouTube compressed audio on a computer. I can't imagine what any kind of bass guitar would add in a positive way to it.

And there I think lies the crux of the matter. A large proportion of the music I listen to is mostly electronic. The idea of using something as imprecise (pun intended) as a stringed instrument to provide the bottom end is simply (to me) unthinkable as it just wouldn't have sufficient power or tonal control to sound correct in the overall context of the track. And while you could probably do something with effects, I'm a great believer in using the right tools to do the job in the most efficient manner, and a keyboard or computer driven synth will win every time in cases like this.

As for the idea that someone like Pino could add a worthwhile bass part to this track - just don't know. I've never heard him play any music I actually like, so while it appears that he has the technical ability to produce the notes, I don't know if he has the right musical taste to play something appropriate. This is something that has been very much re-enforced recently while auditioning replacement musicians for my band. We've had to turn down several hopefuls who had all the musical "chops" to play the parts that had been written by their predecessors, but when asked to come up with their own ideas for new songs we were working on, seemingly had neither the taste or the musical knowledge to play anything even remotely appropriate.

And the track you posted, I'm sorry but I found everything about that to be depressingly bland - especially musically and tonally. I suppose it would be fine if you just need something to add a bit of weight behind the guitar(s), but for me each instrument should make a more significant tonal contribution than that. Again this may come from the years I spent programming and playing synths, where every sound on every song was individually fashioned and tweaked to fit together as a whole.

There is a place for the P-bass in music (although not really in anything I play) but to say that it fits with any music is naive to say the least.
[/quote]

Well , to address your first point , at the risk of sounding facetious , if you aren't going to have any bass guitar on a track then surely all makes and models are equal - the sound of not playing a Precision is the same as not playing a five string fretless Sei Bass . I too have listened to and played bass on a lot of electronic -based music , and sometimes synth bass is the right choice for a given situation , but in those instances where electric bass is appropriate , a Fender Precision [i] could [/i]be a valid choice of instrument as much as any other .

Regarding Pino Palladino , I think you have got things a little back to front in so much as I think his uppermost skill as a player is his impeccable taste , feel and overall intellegence of his playing , rather than any reliance of so - called technical ability or chops , which he also undoubtedly has in his arsenal . He is someone who always underplays in preference to showboating in any way , unless a more flamboyant approach is what is called for . That is why he is something special , and why for a prolonged period he was reputedly the highest paid session musician in the World . I would stake my life that he could come in to the studio with any bass you care to mention and play a part on that Japanese track with aplomb . If you don't like his playing or the records he has played on that's fair enough -you do realise he played on The Lady In Red by Chris De Burgh don't you ? I would have thought that would be one of your favourites - but his skills and intuitive ability are beyond question

Let me be clear that I'm not saying that a Precision - style bass is always the best choice or the best sound for any kind of music , but at the same time I cannot think of any style of music it would automatically be excluded from . Of course other basses will sound better in a whole host of situations , but in so many instances in so many genres a Precision is worth trying and will sound best . If you don't care for the sound of a Precision Bass that is fine , but it is not a reflection on the qualities of the Precision Bass so much as it is an idiosyncratic choice of your own , which , of course , is your right to make . You grudgingly say it is a sound that would be o.k to add weight behind guitars but you prefer instruments to make a more significant tonal contributuion than that . I would counter that by asking you , if you play bass guitar in contemporary music , what more significant tonal contribution can you make than to add weight behind the other instruments ? I find the sound of a good Precision Bass played well one of life's joys , and something I never get sick of . Here is Anthony Jackson playing a Precision Bass with a pick and with a phaser effect on it recorded in 1975 . Apart from Anthony's masterful playing which has it all - groove , swing , timing , invention , soul - the tone of his bass is a thing of beauty . What's more , if you transported Anthony , his P Bass and no doubt his bitchin ' afro through a timewarp to the present day . this bass sound would cut through on any synth - based track recorded today .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxoL3uQbPoc

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BetaFunk Experienced

BetaFunk

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[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1367231124' post='2062750']
Well , to address your first point , at the risk of sounding facetious , if you aren't going to have any bass guitar on a track then surely all makes and
Regarding Pino Palladino , I think you have got things a little back to front in so much as I think his uppermost skill as a player is his impeccable taste , feel and overall intellegence of his playing , rather than any reliance of so - called technical ability or chops , which he also undoubtedly has in his arsenal . He is someone who always underplays in preference to showboating in any way , unless a more flamboyant approach is what is called for . That is why he is something special , and why for a prolonged period he was reputedly the highest paid session musician in the World . I would stake my life that he could come in to the studio with any bass you care to mention and play a part on that Japanese track with aplomb . If you don't like his playing or the records he has played on that's fair enough -you do realise he played on The Lady In Red by Chris De Burgh don't you ? I would have thought that would be one of your favourites - but his skills and intuitive ability are beyond question
[/quote]
I was in one of my local guitar emporiums last year and they were saying that Pino had been in. I asked if he was the best bass guitarist that they'd had in the shop this week. They answered that he was also the best guitarist they'd had in the shop that week.

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Paul S Grand Master

Paul S

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1367228403' post='2062689']
Finally! After four pages, we come to what's important about bass guitars.
My view is this: Bass guitars, particularly P-Basses, should be WHITE - or a variation thereof. That is all.

They just don't sound proper otherwise. :P
[/quote]

Black, surely?

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