Isolated Bass Tracks - Interesting....

[Hot Tub]

Here's a link to some bass tracks. If you listen carefully, you'll hear the rest of the music in the background. What amazed me was the general sloppiness of the playing! It's surprisingly awful. And yet, we worship these bassists.....? Have a listen. Are we setting the bar too high???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx8jLE3qVqA&list=PLkIYonT2EIOqy8rJCL_k5uIg92WFFzeWv

[wateroftyne]

They're not intended to be listened to in isolation.

[4 Strings]

i've spent age listening to Jamerson isolated tracks to learn them for the Motown Tribute band I play in. On their own, the timing, like Geddy's here, can sound a little odd and, frankly, amateurish.

However I think this is because they are recorded in the context of a track. I think that if the player played the bass line in isolation, perhaps just to a click, they would sound more accurate and acceptable in isolation.

Playing solo is different to playing to a track, the feel and involvement is different. If the bass sounds good in context then the bass player has done his job.

(Please let's do nothing to raise the bar further, I'm struggling enough as it is!)

[chrismuzz]

Some of it is the tone. To get a bass tone to cut through you often have to put in a lot of high mids, which makemost players sound sloppy. I remember recording some bass for a melodic death metal band I was in. I thought I did a really great job til I heard the track back! Sounded dead good in the mix though!

I don't see these isolated tracks as a bad thing, as long as you're not blindly assuming "this is sh*t". It makes me feel better about my own playing though!

[chrismuzz]

Just out of interest, check out how ridiculously tight Dave Ellefson's playing is!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rN5N84lUFY

[risingson]

You cannot listen to these things in isolation and conclude that the playing is sloppy, that absolutely isn't the way a a record is made or is meant to be judged.

Someone posted up a John Deacon bass line in isolation a month or two back saying the same. The fact is that the bass take is reliant on an entire ensemble recording, not itself, a bass part is rarely a self-contained thing. So the idiosyncrasies of the band are what make a record or live recording, not individual parts. I think people regularly misconstrue what it actually takes to record a great track, it's rarely about perfection, it's about the sum of the parts working together towards the best possible sounding track. The mistakes in dynamics and timing are simply the human part of the performing and recording process, the idea that we are by our nature imperfect and it should be accepted as such. The isolated parts of a recording are not for consumption because they aren't reflecting the fact that when you play with more than just yourself in your bedroom rehearsing you will have to adapt to the limitations of your environment, whether these limitations be technological or human.

Once you accept this it's far easier to enjoy recorded music for what it is, which is totally honest musicianship.

[daz]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1362877142' post='2005833']
Just out of interest, check out how ridiculously tight Dave Ellefson's playing is!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rN5N84lUFY&feature=player_embedded[/media]
[/quote]

Wow that Ellefson isolated bass playing is pretty damn fine.

Edited March 10, 2013 by daz

[rogerstodge]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1362867278' post='2005710']
They're not intended to be listened to in isolation.
[/quote]spot on..

[JTUK]

Yep, sounds awful...thank god for a good mix.

Can't hear the other example....

[chrismuzz]

My favourite ones are where the drums and bass are the only tracks you can hear. Makes a song so much easier to learn, and many of them are quite enjoyable!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LCIzZCWRmQ

[tonyquipment]

My playing style is very sloppy. Although I own a precision bass hah!

[OldG]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1362878377' post='2005846']
You cannot listen to these things in isolation and conclude that the playing is sloppy, that absolutely isn't the way a a record is made or is meant to be judged.

Someone posted up a John Deacon bass line in isolation a month or two back saying the same. The fact is that the bass take is reliant on an entire ensemble recording, not itself, a bass part is rarely a self-contained thing. So the idiosyncrasies of the band are what make a record or live recording, not individual parts. I think people regularly misconstrue what it actually takes to record a great track, it's rarely about perfection, it's about the sum of the parts working together towards the best possible sounding track. The mistakes in dynamics and timing are simply the human part of the performing and recording process, the idea that we are by our nature imperfect and it should be accepted as such. The isolated parts of a recording are not for consumption because they aren't reflecting the fact that when you play with more than just yourself in your bedroom rehearsing you will have to adapt to the limitations of your environment, whether these limitations be technological or human.

Once you accept this it's far easier to enjoy recorded music for what it is, which is totally honest musicianship.
[/quote]


Very well put.

I'll make the comparison with computer based music... listen to midi generated drums,percussion etc, that has been made precisely to time and with constant velocity- it will sound unnatural, robotic and soulless.

To make it sound 'right' I have to deliberately take a 'perfect' beat and make it 'sloppy' - my DAW will actually do this for me with it's 'humanize' function....

Same goes for bass...

[discreet]

More of the same, really: Did some recording recently and listened to my bassline in isolation. There were general mistakes, fret buzz, timing errors, bum notes, etc. etc. and I wanted to re-record it. The general opinion was that the feel was great in relation to what everyone else was doing and that it was definitely a keeper.

I wasn't 100% about this, but having now repeatedly listened to the results, I'm totally happy and I can't even remember what was wrong with it and even where the 'mistakes' I didn't like actually occur!

Which bears out what I've often said, i.e. electric bass is [i]not [/i]a solo instrument. And as xilddx has also said, 'it can be, but who the f*** wants to listen to it..?'

Edited March 10, 2013 by discreet

[Musky]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1362878377' post='2005846']
You cannot listen to these things in isolation and conclude that the playing is sloppy, that absolutely isn't the way a a record is made or is meant to be judged.

Someone posted up a John Deacon bass line in isolation a month or two back saying the same. The fact is that the bass take is reliant on an entire ensemble recording, not itself, a bass part is rarely a self-contained thing. So the idiosyncrasies of the band are what make a record or live recording, not individual parts. I think people regularly misconstrue what it actually takes to record a great track, it's rarely about perfection, it's about the sum of the parts working together towards the best possible sounding track. The mistakes in dynamics and timing are simply the human part of the performing and recording process, the idea that we are by our nature imperfect and it should be accepted as such. The isolated parts of a recording are not for consumption because they aren't reflecting the fact that when you play with more than just yourself in your bedroom rehearsing you will have to adapt to the limitations of your environment, whether these limitations be technological or human.

Once you accept this it's far easier to enjoy recorded music for what it is, which is totally honest musicianship.
[/quote]
Very good post.

Something to bear in mind is that we don't actually seem to like perfection very much. We've had that option for some time with the use of drum machines, and it wasn't long before someone had to come up with a 'humanise' function.

[witterth]

In fairness to Mr lee, he is singing and I assume stomping on some "bass pedaloes" at the same time, so lets cut him some slack if hes not as good as the rest of us! .....( )

[witterth]

Whats intresting and "human" about the John Taylor "Rio" is that while is quite tight and good you can hear bits where hes getting "tired" but thats in isolation, because the track as a whole is really tight, and thats what he is known for.
I find these things really intresting.
I've heard a Police one where they isolate the bass on "Roxanne" and you hear The Beemiester using his pick to make ghost notes to help him stay in time, and it adds a nice "vibe" I've borrowed this tip from him too!

[Lozz196]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1362878377' post='2005846']
You cannot listen to these things in isolation and conclude that the playing is sloppy, that absolutely isn't the way a a record is made or is meant to be judged.

Someone posted up a John Deacon bass line in isolation a month or two back saying the same. The fact is that the bass take is reliant on an entire ensemble recording, not itself, a bass part is rarely a self-contained thing. So the idiosyncrasies of the band are what make a record or live recording, not individual parts. I think people regularly misconstrue what it actually takes to record a great track, it's rarely about perfection, it's about the sum of the parts working together towards the best possible sounding track. The mistakes in dynamics and timing are simply the human part of the performing and recording process, the idea that we are by our nature imperfect and it should be accepted as such. The isolated parts of a recording are not for consumption because they aren't reflecting the fact that when you play with more than just yourself in your bedroom rehearsing you will have to adapt to the limitations of your environment, whether these limitations be technological or human.

Once you accept this it's far easier to enjoy recorded music for what it is, which is totally honest musicianship.
[/quote]

This it`s why the processed manufactures "perfect" pop of today will be largely unrecognised in years to come (probably next week), whereas recordings like the one in the OP - my fave Rush song by the way - will be around for years to come. People want the excitement of a recording, and the excitement comes in a lot of ways, by the flaws committed by the artists. Too perfect and it sounds sterilised.

[discreet]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1362910452' post='2005971']
Too perfect and it sounds sterilised.
[/quote]

Quite right... at one point I was a big fan of using a click track when recording 'real' drums. Now I realise that - when making recordings of a 'live' band, at least - it's the quickest way to kill any feel or emotion stone dead. What's a few BPM between friends when a number is really cooking?

[Silvia Bluejay]

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1362879376' post='2005851']
Wow that Ellefson isolated bass playing is pretty damn fine.
[/quote]

Dave "Megadeth" Mustaine has always surrounded himself with awesome, rock-solid bass players, even when he himself was at his junkie-est and sloppiest. Probably exactly for that reason - as well as David Ellefson's excellent song-writing skills.
When Ellefson left the band for a few years, James Lomenzo took his place, and boy, he may sound a bit soulless but he's nothing short of awesome too. I met him at one of the Music Shows a few years ago for a chat and also saw him playing there.

Edited March 10, 2013 by bluejay

[BigRedX]

The only thing that matters is how it sounds and feels in the context of the complete finished track. Everything else is irrelevant.

Where do these isolated tracks come from? Are they authorised by the band or leaked from tapes/digital sessions?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1362910452' post='2005971']
This it`s why the processed manufactures "perfect" pop of today will be largely unrecognised in years to come (probably next week), whereas recordings like the one in the OP - my fave Rush song by the way - will be around for years to come. People want the excitement of a recording, and the excitement comes in a lot of ways, by the flaws committed by the artists. Too perfect and it sounds sterilised.
[/quote]

It's all very well saying that when it's someone else playing and you already know that in the context of the track it sounds great.

However I bet most people on here, if it was them, would be agonising over ever minor fluff and slightly mis-picked note and small timing glitch, and wanting to get back into the live room and for another take or at least a drop-in or two to fix it. When they are your mistakes it's a lot harder to let them be, because there's a good chance that eventually on repeated listening they will ruin the track for you.

[Judo Chop]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1362913361' post='2006025']
The only thing that matters is how it sounds and feels in the context of the complete finished track. Everything else is irrelevant.

Where do these isolated tracks come from? Are they authorised by the band or leaked from tapes/digital sessions?
[/quote]

I know that some of them have been ripped from Rock Band or Guitar Hero discs somehow, not sure about the ones not featured in those games

[BigRedX]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1362911445' post='2005989']
Quite right... at one point I was a big fan of using a click track when recording 'real' drums. Now I realise that - when making recordings of a 'live' band, at least - it's the quickest way to kill any feel or emotion stone dead. What's a few BPM between friends when a number is really cooking?
[/quote]

The click track is just like any other tool or aid. Sometimes you need it and sometimes you don't. To say that using a click track is always bad is as stupid as saying that you have to use one all the time.

[Dingus]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1362913361' post='2006025']
The only thing that matters is how it sounds and feels in the context of the complete finished track. Everything else is irrelevant.

Where do these isolated tracks come from? Are they authorised by the band or leaked from tapes/digital sessions?
[/quote]

I agree totally with what people say about the only important thing being the final result ,

I think a lot of these isolated tracks are being taken from the soundtracks of that Rock Band game thingamajig . Apparently there is some way to isolate the individual tracks .

Edited March 10, 2013 by Dingus

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1362913666' post='2006030']


It's all very well saying that when it's someone else playing and you already know that in the context of the track it sounds great.

However I bet most people on here, if it was them, would be agonising over ever minor fluff and slightly mis-picked note and small timing glitch, and wanting to get back into the live room and for another take or at least a drop-in or two to fix it. When they are your mistakes it's a lot harder to let them be, because there's a good chance that eventually on repeated listening they will ruin the track for you.
[/quote]

Personally, I never listen to the bass out-of-context. If I can't hear it in the track, I let it go.