51m0n Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Please have a listen to the efforts of your forum mates in mixing RedStriper's band's track for the January Mix competition. I know a lot of you don't go near the Recording section much, but anyone bothering to listen and make a choice will be considered very very splendid indeed [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/192016-mixing-competitionlearning-resource-january-poll-added/"]Poll can be found here[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Note to self: tweet tomorrow. And this is also a bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 No one else ready to vote? All you need do is have a listen to each track off soundcloud and choose your favourite........ Go on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalMan Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Got halfway through last night. Trouble is the more I listen the more I realise how mutton I am becoming in picking out variances & deciding. Will have another go tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 The effort is properly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Hi, I can't open OldG's entry - is this a known issue or is it just me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1358427577' post='1938903'] Hi, I can't open OldG's entry - is this a known issue or is it just me? [/quote] I couldn't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Hmmm, I am pretty sure that as a sanity check I opened every one when I built the poll. How tedious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldG Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Sorry! I was trying to separate my Wife's SC account from mine and ended up moving the link. Re-upping now... The mix was ruined by a panner resetting itself before render - leaving the mix somewhat trippy to listen to.... [url="https://soundcloud.com/lucy-hastings/bc-mix-final"]Trippy mistake mix[/url] [url="https://soundcloud.com/lucy-hastings/bc-mix-nopan"]mix as intended[/url]( too late for comp) again apologies for confusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thanks. Listened to them all now and voted. Great stuff everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='OldG' timestamp='1358430009' post='1938959'] The mix was ruined by a panner resetting itself before render - leaving the mix somewhat trippy to listen to.... [/quote] atleast something good came of my comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruiner Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Listened and voted. Great idea this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Ta! OldG's entry is working again now for anyone waiting to hear it before casting their vote... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'm going to be a little blunt here so apologies in advance... The mixing competition is a fantastic idea. But... I'm not entirely sure it works In the composition competitions the variety of interpretations of the picture have been massive. If you didn't like what one entrant had created, it didn't matter because the next one would be completely different. Somewhere in among all the entries would be at least one piece that you liked. With the mix piece, if you aren't particularly enamoured of the basic song then the idea of listening to multiple times with slight variations isn't going to be particularly appealing. Also where do you draw the line between mix and "remix"? Do you work strictly with what is there (or not there) and in the order it occurs, or can/should you be more creative? Are you allowed to leave out parts you don't think work? Are you allowed to move instruments, or maybe even whole passages, around? IMO it's not clear-cut at all. Some of the biggest changes to songs that I've worked on have come at the mixing stage, which can often be the first time that you get a proper overview of the piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Interesting points. But its a different discipline from composition, so it will be a different experience to find a preferred version. You can not like the track and still find the mix that either conveys the track the best to you, or seems in some way better on a technical level (if you really cant stand the music). That is, however, very much the nature of mixing, and I actually think that people who bother to try and find a favourite in this kind of thing will end up gaining a new found respoect for mixing as it finally slowly dawns on them that sometimes mixers can create great fabulous engaging mixes of songs [i]they[/i] dont like either. That is a part of the challenge of mixing, its finding a way to like what you are doing irrespective of whether or not you like the song or some aspect of it very much. If you read the entire thread about it (and why would you) you would have seen the question of remixing turn up. The idea is to do the best mix, so that is not to replace everything with new parts and create a new arrangement from scratch, effectively using the multitrack as a set of samples to dip into as and when you feel like. Having said that it is well within the remit of a mixer to alter arrangements here and there, by dropping a part they cant stand, or feel doesnt improve the song at all, or leaving it to come in later as an added boost to a song further into it. Furthermore the use of drum samples to beef up drums isnt disallowed, although I have never ever liked this approach, I'd personally rather take what is there and make it the best it can be and find something in it to love, however bad it is , it is at least unique, and uniquely of that song/band then. Of course if you hate the song, or all the mixes, then dont bother getting past a couple before deciding voting on this is not for you. I think its fair to say that whilst the compostion competition is focussed on the very macroscopic creativity of writing the piece, and if the recording of it doesnt sound great then thats fine and shouldnt stop a track doing well, the mix competition is incredibly microscopic, looking at tiny details of how a song is presented to the listener, and if the song isnt your cup of tea, then thats not relevant, the quality of the mix is what matters. It requires an ability to seperate the soudn of a mix from the content of the song, I honestly think some people just cant do that very well at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruiner Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1358441776' post='1939280'] Interesting points. But its a different discipline from composition, so it will be a different experience to find a preferred version. You can not like the track and still find the mix that either conveys the track the best to you, or seems in some way better on a technical level. [/quote] This. The track wasn't the kind of stuff I'd normally listen to, but it was interesting to hear and compare the different takes on it, and how they affect the overall feel of the content, coming at it as a complete beginner to the world of mixing. After listening to all the mixes I ended up really liking the track and appreciating the different elements that made it up, having heard it from that many different perspectives. That and the damn catchy vocals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruiner Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1358440814' post='1939240'] I'm going to be a little blunt here so apologies in advance... Also where do you draw the line between mix and "remix"? Do you work strictly with what is there (or not there) and in the order it occurs, or can/should you be more creative? Are you allowed to leave out parts you don't think work? Are you allowed to move instruments, or maybe even whole passages, around? IMO it's not clear-cut at all. [/quote] This is a good point though. Of all the tracks I'd consider all of them 'mixes' rather than 'remixes', maybe one of the mixes in particular, to me at least, felt like it leaned more towards being a 'remix', but that was probably just because that particular treatment given to the song took it in a different direction to the rest of the mixes. Where do you draw the line though? Staying true to the song within a particular mix is such a subjective thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I think the modern role of the mix engineer covers so much ground. At one end there's getting what has been recorded sounding as good as it possibly can, and then at the other extreme there's taking a recording and turning it into a potential hit single. Maybe future mix competitions should come with a brief from the person supplying the tracks as to what they would like the outcome of the mix to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butlerk02 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1358509022' post='1940420'] I think the modern role of the mix engineer covers so much ground. At one end there's getting what has been recorded sounding as good as it possibly can, and then at the other extreme there's taking a recording and turning it into a potential hit single. Maybe future mix competitions should come with a brief from the person supplying the tracks as to what they would like the outcome of the mix to be? [/quote] Good point. I think a mix engineer tries to get everything sounding good, and a Producer turns it into a single using clever arrangement. I think most modern day engineers cover both of these roles. With regards to a brief being supplied, I think I'd prefer to to have a free reign on what the song should sound like, as it's only a bit of fun with the emphasis on learning. If this was a commercial mix, I'd rather know what the client was was expecting and aim the sound of the mix around their expectations. Cheers Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1358440814' post='1939240']In the composition competitions the variety of interpretations of the picture have been massive. If you didn't like what one entrant had created, it didn't matter because the next one would be completely different. Somewhere in among all the entries would be at least one piece that you liked. With the mix piece, if you aren't particularly enamoured of the basic song then the idea of listening to multiple times with slight variations isn't going to be particularly appealing.[/quote] I've yet to listen to all the mixes in one sitting myself (doing so this w'end) - and even as a participant it does seem a little daunting. But that's the nature of the beast I guess. And a very different listening exercise to the composition compo. But it's a good point you make. Personally, I think (hope) the mixing challenge has a slightly different purpose to the composition challenge, in that it holds potential to become a great learning resource for those involved. Not that we can't all learn things from the composition challenge - but I personally view the latter as an opportunity to enjoy music for music's sake, whereas the mix-off (for me at least) is a chance to hone technical skills in the company of others. I doubt the mix-off will gain the same level of interest - that's just the nature of it, as many folks won't stomach listening to different treatments of the same track unless they have an interest in mixing. But I could be wrong! Regardless... I think it's another great addition to the Recording forum. And exactly the sort of thing the forum should be used for (less talk, more action! ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) The difference betweeen a producer and a mix engineer may seem to be blurred, but it isnt really. A mix engineer is given a set of tracks that have been recorded with more or (if he's a name engineer) less rigourous instruction as to the desired result, and a couple of rough mixes (which he must choose how much to listen to) which he must blow out of the water. He can change the arrangement a little, (ie by choosing to leave stuff out, or fly some stuff in elsewhere) but he must absolutely be able to back those choices up, best if the missing parts arent even noticed. If that sounds unlikely, bear in mind that there were over 120 tracks in some of the songs on Pink's last album (for instance) - clearly some of those could have gone walkies and no one would really be sure. A producer on the other hand is there from preproduction, she gets to hear the initial ideas and shape the arrangements from the beginning before tracking, she is there to ensure the budget is stuck to (massive massive part of producing) and to make the bands efforts gel into her concept of the album (or EP or single or whatever). So if your engineer is tracking you and mixing you, they still arent producing you, because they arent managing the budget, and they didnt hear the preproduction, they didnt help evolve the arrangement beforehand, and they dont have a vision, they are flying by the seat of their pants. If they say they are producing you at that point they are talking baloney, dont let them have delusions of grandeur about tracking and mixing a session, it isnt the same thing! This is so different its a totally different ballpark. A good producer will hand off to an expert mix engineer to help that vision be realised. The mix engineer will be happiest to receive the fewest tracks possible with an outstanding arrangement that pays off the listener into and through every section, but more often than not somewhere in the process up to that point there is ususally more than there needs to be, and that is where a mix engineer needs to be an expert musically as well to recognise this and improve the final mix of the song by cutting or changing that little bit to realise the best possible mix. Thats the bit I find hardest to do, I love getting it all sounding great together, I love pushing the boundary on the sound and trying not to mix to safe (safe mixes are boring, you need to find something extra in there somehow or it wont convert into anything other than another fine but boring song). But actually by the time I'm doen with it I ususally love it, so I stick with every part up tp that point, and dont want to lose a thing.... Having said that ther was one track on No Second Chance that I nearly binned, I didnt like it at all, it stayed in the end, but it still makes me feel 'off' in there now. And we havent touched on editing at all either, which you wont get done by any full on mix engineer for you without paying (loads) extra. They arent there to fix the performance, they are there to make it sound the best tey can - its a different thing. If we can do mixes and find something that everybody wants to learn from in some of them each time, then as long as the people involved share their thoughts and ideas and how they went about achieving things, then there is a huge worth in what we are doing. Its not about who is the best at mixing its about provoking thought and questions and getting answers, and help fo ranyone who wants it. Well that was the intention from me anyway. The voting thing is just a bit of fun anyway, its the learning bit that matters! Edited January 18, 2013 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthevan Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 How about this for an idea then....... Instead of doing a mix where every track is already there, do vocals, drums, guitar etc and leave the bass off. Were all bass players and could get some intesting different bass lines. Everyone who can mix should be able to lay a bass track down too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) [quote name='danthevan' timestamp='1358529585' post='1940992'] How about this for an idea then....... Instead of doing a mix where every track is already there, do vocals, drums, guitar etc and leave the bass off. Were all bass players and could get some intesting different bass lines. Everyone who can mix should be able to lay a bass track down too [/quote] How about this for an idea then...... Why not add a tune/Instruments/harmony to your Bass line you laid down............................ And then enter the Composing Comp.... Sorry...... I think Si gave a good run down of what the comp is all about - although reading the posts, i can see where everyone is coming from, and BRX's first post had crossed my mind. Voted. Garry Edited January 18, 2013 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Exactly! I'm doing these as quick mixes by my standards. Thast still several hours of time right there (easily). You want me to track the bass as well? Why?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I absolutetly understand the learning resource part of the competition , thats why I have included myself in the process , I know my skills and kit is very limited , but, the whole idea is a great insight into the world of production. I have seen documentaries, read a few articles and hear reference to mixing quite regularly , but its not until you get your hands dirty that the pieces start to fit . Lots of people know this stuff and can hone their skills , me , I am in at the first rung and it is a fantastic idea. when I first saw the competition announced , I could barely start up a DAW , and had no idea what the competition was all about. ( if your hear my entry, you might argue I still don't) but at least I've got to the first rung . Some of the replies take a fair bit of thought and time to respond and post, so I for one appreciatte the effort that a lot have put into the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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