iconic Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 This is most likely a real rookie question, but having little interest in guitars and I can't sing (no really I'm almost tone deaf!) why do guitar players change the key of a song....I've come across some key changes that can make the bass accompanyment 'challanging' for someone such as myself with meager talents......ashes to ashes from Bb to G was the time I really found it tough! So is it because guitarists can't play any key other than C major/A minor due to laziness, or is down to singers with limited voice range......which prompts me ask what do singers have, 1 octave, 2? Like I said, maybe obvious to a muso but humour me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I only use one on an acoustic for changing keys where I want the voicing of a particular chord but in a different key. For example the basic G major chord sounds, and plays, differently to the standard A major chord and allows you to fingerpick it in a different way, so for some songs in A I'll capo up two frets and use the G fingerings. It does also help in a jam situation where the singer is used to one key and you play in an another, allows me to concentrate on accompanying the song rather than mentally trying to transpose on the fly which I find problematic once you start using more than four basic chords in a song . Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 In my limited experience, changing key is usually to accomodate a limited range of the singer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philparker Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Using the capo allows the acoustic guitarist to change key for the singer but still keep the same chord sequence with open chords and finger picking if applicable. The acoustic line-up I play with use capos all the time and may even change it down a semi-tone just before playing live,if the singer is struggling a bit. It doesn't affect me as a bass player, I just transpose automatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 All of the above; though Dave Hill of Slade in an old fan club lesson session he wrote said it was to help a learner guitarist who didn't know as many chords; but if was good enough for the mighty Albert Collins then it's good enough for anyone (though his was more to help his unique tone). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Same for me as Phil's post. I really like the use of a capo - in fact any open or drop tunings too. Sometimes it sounds good to take a particular open tuning finger picked pattern and shift it higher up the fretboard. My 'go to' position for some reason always ends up around the 6th fret on my acoustic. I also transpose on the fly if necessary - except those days when I'm feeling really tired and everyone turns to laugh at the disaster unfolding in the corner of the rehearsal room ha ha!! Oh and dare I even mention that sometimes I have used a Capo on Bass? Mostly for finger picked or tapped lines that require certain groups of 'open' strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbyrne Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) I played with a C&W/Americana band which insisted on playing the songs in the key the recording SEEMED to be in - which led to some very strange capo usage as one would capo to play the (say) D in open A style while the other would capo to play the F in open G style. Also, I say SEEMED as they didn't take into consideration the fact that many of the groups in question downtuned - usually by a semitone (half-step in Septic-speak) -but sometimes more, leading to our lot playing some very tortured chords & keys, while the originals were probably done using easy chords like A or G & just downtuning to fit their voices. I wouldn't have minded, but on more than one occasion, they decided to change key between practices & when the key was called on stage, it turned out they didn't know what key it actually was & were playing in a different key to what they thought, while I ended up in the key called & sounded (& was) totally wrong. Didn't stay long with them. I agree with most of the above. There are singers with different ranges. Sometimes if you want that singer to sing a particular song, you just have to change the key to suit his/her range. I've done that quite a lot. The key(!) to doing this on bass it to see the bassline more as a visual pattern that can be moved up or down the neck. This is where playing *across* the neck on a 5 string can help. Also, as has been mentioned, there are some chord shapes that must be used to make a song sound 'right' & if you shift key, you'll need to capo to achieve this. IMO anything else is lazyness (ducks & runs.......) G. Edited October 31, 2012 by geoffbyrne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Many reasons a guitarist might use a capo: A capo on a guitar allows strings to be played open that would otherwise be impossible/near impossible. Using a capo will alter the timbre of the instrument, usually making the chords sound 'sweeter' a la Here Comes the Sun. The opposite effect of [i]detuning[/i] a guitar to make it sound ugglier. Two guitarists, one with capo and one without, will often sound bigger (Staus Quo?) than 2 non capo guitars. To accommodate a singer, with the added bonus of (as above) 'sweeter' sounding chords, a la James Taylor, Ralph McTell etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 A guitarist I played with many years ago always tuned down a semi-tone and then capoed the first fret as standard. He reckoned it gave better intonation up the neck and avoided the need for subtle retuning if he re-capoed further up. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 [quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1351684582' post='1854090'] A guitarist I played with many years ago always tuned down a semi-tone and then capoed the first fret as standard. He reckoned it gave better intonation up the neck and avoided the need for subtle retuning if he re-capoed further up. Steve [/quote] It probably would help with intonation, effectively being a zero fret, so you don't have that sharpening when going from open string to the first fret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yep, mainly used for changing key but keeping the same open chord shapes. I am a big fan of using a capo up around the 5th, 6th, 7th frets. You get a very distinctive timbre up there that just sounds beautiful with open chords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 +1 to all the above. Vocal range is a serious consideration. After that you have to consider the chord voicings you want, and how much you're going to depend on fingerpicking your way through open chords. Playing 6-string bar chords in Eb can be hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 cheers guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I use a capo to avoid those pesky B and Bb chords at the nut end of the neck, talking of the nut it can also get round the problem of a badly adjusted (filed) nut, and of course it's an easy way of moving a song to a higher key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='dood' timestamp='1351677765' post='1853968'] Same for me as Phil's post. I really like the use of a capo - in fact any open or drop tunings too. Sometimes it sounds good to take a particular open tuning finger picked pattern and shift it higher up the fretboard. My 'go to' position for some reason always ends up around the 6th fret on my acoustic. I also transpose on the fly if necessary - except those days when I'm feeling really tired and everyone turns to laugh at the disaster unfolding in the corner of the rehearsal room ha ha!! Oh and dare I even mention that sometimes I have used a Capo on Bass? Mostly for finger picked or tapped lines that require certain groups of 'open' strings. [/quote] You use a capo on bass? I don't believe you! Where did you get a capo that big? Is it custom made from a bit of scaffolding & a gator out of a tyre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Agree with all of the above but it appears to be only me then that gets to play with guitarists who capo at the 2nd fret, play a G major shape and still tell you that "it's in G" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1351780441' post='1855294'] Agree with all of the above but it appears to be only me then that gets to play with guitarists who capo at the 2nd fret, play a G major shape and still tell you that "it's in G" [/quote] No, it's not only you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1351780531' post='1855297'] No, it's not only you. [/quote] And have you given up arguing too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodrox Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Yes open chords played higher up the neck with a capo can have a light mandolin quality, the capo can make it a bit easier to play an instrument with an unwieldy action and also facilitate simpler fingering on intros like hotel California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodrox Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Yes open chords played higher up the neck with a capo can have a light mandolin quality, the capo can make it a bit easier to play an instrument with an unwieldy action and also facilitate simpler fingering on intros like hotel California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 [quote name='hollywoodrox' timestamp='1351781849' post='1855313'] Yes open chords played higher up the neck with a capo can have a light mandolin quality, the capo can make it a bit easier to play an instrument with an unwieldy action and also facilitate simpler fingering on intros like hotel California [/quote] I'll second that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1351779883' post='1855287'] You use a capo on bass? I don't believe you! Where did you get a capo that big? Is it custom made from a bit of scaffolding & a gator out of a tyre? [/quote] Hahaha! it's a superb tri-action capo from Planet Waves at the moment and clamped over the top 4 strings leaving the other 3 free for normal bass useable. Very cool for drone or pedal notes low on the neck, or great for tapping high on the neck! I haven't gigged the Capo yet though! No endangered species were harmed in the making of this music hehehe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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