Floating thumb or anchored?

[chris_b]

I just had a quick look at YouTube.

These players all [i]anchor[/i]:

John Patitucci
Stanley Clark
Marcus Millar playing with fingers
Mark King playing with fingers
John Deacon
John Paul Jones
Frances Rocco Prestia
Chuck Rainey
Victor Wooten playing with Bela Flek
Freddie Washington
Tal Wilkenfeld

I don't feel so lonely anymore.

[Doddy]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1348786971' post='1818391']
Why would you need to mute strings you aren't plucking..?? that is just sloppy playing.
I can understand muting the string you are attacking but that is what the LH is for
[/quote]
It's not sloppy playing to need mute the strings. It's not uncommon to get sympathetic vibrations from
the lower strings,and if you are playing on the upper strings how are you going to mute them with the
left hand? You need to use the right hand to do this. Muting of the strings should come from both hands,
depending on what and where you are playing. But the need to mute the strings you aren't playing isn't
due to sloppy playing....I certainly wouldn't call Jaco or Patitucci sloppy and they mute with the right hand all
the time.

[RichF]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1348793988' post='1818484']
It's not sloppy playing to need mute the strings. It's not uncommon to get sympathetic vibrations from
the lower strings,and if you are playing on the upper strings how are you going to mute them with the
left hand? You need to use the right hand to do this. Muting of the strings should come from both hands,
depending on what and where you are playing. But the need to mute the strings you aren't playing isn't
due to sloppy playing....I certainly wouldn't call Jaco or Patitucci sloppy and they mute with the right hand all
the time.
[/quote]

yeah, I see muting as one of the most important skills I have developed, and not sure that's a sign of me being a sloppy player or just a fact of playing a stringed instrument like the bass?? I can be obsessive in the studio using both right and left hands to dampen strings. In many ways that desire to limit the sound produced just to the note played dictates whether I anchor or float. I am not disagreeing with JTUK but just giving my perhaps odd take on something all my fingers seem to be involved in and not just those involved in generating the actual note I am playing - maybe that makes me very sloppy? I tend to think more OCD.

Edited September 28, 2012 by RichF

[JTUK]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1348793988' post='1818484']
It's not sloppy playing to need mute the strings. It's not uncommon to get sympathetic vibrations from
the lower strings,and if you are playing on the upper strings how are you going to mute them with the
left hand? You need to use the right hand to do this. Muting of the strings should come from both hands,
depending on what and where you are playing. But the need to mute the strings you aren't playing isn't
due to sloppy playing....I certainly wouldn't call Jaco or Patitucci sloppy and they mute with the right hand all
the time.
[/quote]

If you like. Can't be bothered to argue

If you need to mute ..then devise a technique that can do this job.
Don't care if you see that need as left or right..
It is all in the playing anyway...but that video is not inspiring at all...or particularly demontrative to any degree, IMO.

[Looper]

Never really thought about muting, think my left hand does that for me.

[Sté]

i learned it with this video from Adam Nitti.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hDzRqeS0ruQ"]http://www.youtube.c...8;v=hDzRqeS0ruQ[/url]

Edited September 28, 2012 by Sté

[krysh]

[quote name='Sté' timestamp='1348819195' post='1818573']
i learned it with this video from Adam Nitti.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hDzRqeS0ruQ"]http://www.youtube.c...8;v=hDzRqeS0ruQ[/url]


[/quote]

ok, then I'm using the floating anchor technique most of the time.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1348793988' post='1818484']
It's not sloppy playing to need mute the strings. It's not uncommon to get sympathetic vibrations from
the lower strings,and if you are playing on the upper strings how are you going to mute them with the
left hand? You need to use the right hand to do this. Muting of the strings should come from both hands,
depending on what and where you are playing. But the need to mute the strings you aren't playing isn't
due to sloppy playing....I certainly wouldn't call Jaco or Patitucci sloppy and they mute with the right hand all
the time.
[/quote]

Massive +1 , well put Doddy.

With a 4 string bass you can pretty much get away with all the muting you need with moving anchor, and I played that way for a long time, since you can mute the A string with the tip of your thumb resting on it, and the E string from further up your thumb.

The left hand takes care of the D and G in this case (you play on one and mute the other witn spare fingers.

If you add a B string though the RH thumb can't stop sympathetic ringing (unless its a damned weird shape). That allows energy in the resonating bass body and neck to drive the B string to ring in sympathy.

And [i]that[/i] sounds really sloppy.

Adam Nitti definitely describes it better than me (or the video I chose)!

Edited September 28, 2012 by 51m0n

[charic]

I rarely dabble with using anything but a pick but it's floating thumb is what I use otherwise. No idea why, it's just what feels right.

As I usually use a pick I mostly left hand mute anyway

[chris_b]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1348822718' post='1818654']
....If you add a B string though the RH thumb can't stop sympathetic ringing....
[/quote]

Sorry but you can.

After checking (I never look at my left hand), on my 5 string, apparently I anchor on the pickup for the B string, the B for the E string and the E string (where it is also resting on the B string) for all the others. My plucking finger comes to rest on the string below the one I played and I also use left hand muting for the higher strings. These three things in combination cover all eventualities.

My version of thumb anchoring is comfortable, effective and easy to manoeuvre. Ticks all the boxes and stops all sympathetic ringing.

Edited September 28, 2012 by chris_b

[51m0n]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1348828086' post='1818738']
Sorry but you can.

After checking (I never look at my left hand), on my 5 string, apparently I anchor on the pickup for the B string, the B for the E string and the E string (where it is also resting on the B string) for all the others. My plucking finger comes to rest on the string below the one I played and I also use left hand muting for the higher strings. These three things in combination cover all eventualities.

My version of thumb anchoring is comfortable, effective and easy to manoeuvre. Ticks all the boxes and stops all sympathetic ringing.
[/quote]

Ah yes, sorry, I see what you mean, you can if you dont move your anchor when you play on the D string, and rely on the plucking finger coming to rest on the A string to mute it.

But this defeats the object of moving the anchor in the first place - which is to keep the plucking hand as close to its curved fingered relaxed shape as possible at all times, rather than opening you hand up further and creating a sharper bend in the wrist at the same time in order to reach for the strings that are now further away from the plucking hand thumb (which is what your relaxed hand's fingers want to rest next to).

So you have compromised on plucking hand ergonomics in order to keep that muting going on.

Of course if it works for you then tip top, and carry on and all that.

I cant do that because I have tendencies towards RSI due to the code monkey elements of my day job

[JTUK]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1348830883' post='1818788']
Ah yes, sorry, I see what you mean, you can if you dont move your anchor when you play on the D string, and rely on the plucking finger coming to rest on the A string to mute it.

But this defeats the object of moving the anchor in the first place - which is to keep the plucking hand as close to its curved fingered relaxed shape as possible at all times, rather than opening you hand up further and creating a sharper bend in the wrist at the same time in order to reach for the strings that are now further away from the plucking hand thumb (which is what your relaxed hand's fingers want to rest next to).

So you have compromised on plucking hand ergonomics in order to keep that muting going on.

Of course if it works for you then tip top, and carry on and all that.

I cant do that because I have tendencies towards RSI due to the code monkey elements of my day job
[/quote]

I don't think that defeats the object at all..and Nitti's anchor does move..as he re-anchors up on the next string.. which keeps things consistant..which IS THE WHOLE POINT, Shirely.
You want a default return position..and if you move up the string anchored as he does, this gets the job done on a 5 or more string.

I would say..IME.. that you don't need to anchor more than on the B and E anyway but if people have masses of ringing strings..either because of an inaccurate strike or
sympathetic string droning..or whatever..you need to brush up on what you do to the point that they don't ring..
It may well be that the player bounces around a lot and this can make the strings lively.. but anchoring the B and E is/should be enough as the stretch is pretty close.

Of course, on a 6 or larger... all the consistancy is gone due to the stretching the RH will have to do...

As for RSI... stretching or abnormal positions is not good.but I do think that the movement of a digit is far more precise than a whole artm/shoulder movement and that you would have to anchor the arm somewhere anyway.. just as you want to do in slapping ..
The return to the default and comfortable position is always the most accurate way to go about these things.

I am not sure why we are all keen to impose one method above another, tbh..my main concern is why some can't fathom a system that works time and time again to a pretty effective standard.
Most of this is standard muscle memoey as half of us will have had to recheck how we actually do achieve all this now...

For me, my muting..as such as it is...is LH and RH...but both with the fingers..and the thumb comes into contention on the lower strings largely to reduce a big stretch...as playing ocatves on the A..whilst anchored on the B is just imposing a limitation that isn't necessary.
The upside of this is that it also doubles as a mute

At the end of the day, we all get there in the end....hopefully.

[baseline9]

Only had chance to see the first few posts, but thanks for this!

I was an "Anchor Man" (Insert your own Ron Burgundy Joke Here!) however last night after watching a few vids on you tube I tried the floating thumb thing and straight away it started to feel quite good and my playing was smoother, more practice will be needed though!

A complete confession here - I have been playing for years and never even knew it even this existed!

Many thanks!

[chris_b]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1348830883' post='1818788']
....So you have compromised on plucking hand ergonomics in order to keep that muting going on.....
[/quote]

No. I’m making no compromises at all, and there is no stretching, over reaching or convoluted positioning from my rather (for my size) smallish hands.

I'm comfortable with my technique and so it seems are the "super players" I listed earlier, as they are all playing and muting with a pretty consistent [i]anchored thumb[/i] technique. At least in the YouTube videos I've looked at.

So in my experience anyone with an [i]anchoring[/i] technique doesn’t have to feel that they are doing anything wrong, bad or sloppy.

[51m0n]

Look, like I said, if its working for you (be you a bedroom bassist or a legend), and your happy with it, and its not doing you any damage then its all good.

But the least stress you can put your RH hand under is totally relaxed, and that is best achieved (IMHO & IME) with floating thumb resting on all the strings not being played, and moving up and down the strings as required. Everything else I've tried adds stress to the wrist, however little. I'm not religious about it, I still find myself anchoring more often than I'd like, but its something I'm aware of more than ever since having a really nasty RSI flare up a coupl eof years ago.

If you like how your techique works for you, then stick with it, but if you ever get pain, or are struggling with muting strings on an ERB then the worst you can do is give floating thumb a try....

Edited September 28, 2012 by 51m0n

[BassTractor]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1348849564' post='1819136']
if its working for you (be you a bedroom bassist or a legend), and your happy with it, and its not doing you any damage then its all good.
[/quote]

I get this, but does it also work for bedroom legends like me?

best,
bert

Edited September 28, 2012 by BassTractor

[JTUK]

I'd have to force my fingers into a scrunched up and restricitve position to be able to rest the thumb which I wouldn't want to do for a fingering technique
I use 90% of the time.
Out of all the hand shapes I would use to atack the strings, flaoting thumb would appear the most unnatural so it is not for me.

[gub]

I always thought i clung on to the pickup a fair bit, but after looking to see what i am actualy doing it seems i do use the floating thumb method!

[Ashwood1985]

I move my thumb up to rest on the second away from where im playing eg. on my A to play the G string as when it's one above eg. on the D when playing G, my hand feels real cramped up as I have spider leg fingers. So that often means that any prevention of ringing out on the string between would be left up to the left hand, which is often a bit busy on the higher string. That's my only Achilles heal with regards to muting but I've been working on it the last 6 months and I'm happier with the cleanliness of my lines now.

Regarding us all giving and recieving advice on how to mute unwanted sound and play fluidly at the same time, I think it's important to communicate and take note of the physical attributes of each persons hands. To give or receive advice without establishing an understanding if each others hands are similar could be very problematic! :-/

[BottomE]

[quote name='Ashwood1985' timestamp='1348920818' post='1819774']
Regarding us all giving and recieving advice on how to mute unwanted sound and play fluidly at the same time, I think it's important to communicate and take note of the physical attributes of each persons hands. To give or receive advice without establishing an understanding if each others hands are similar could be very problematic! :-/
[/quote]

Yes, use the technique that you are comfortable with. There is no right or wrong answer. I use different right hand styles depending on what i want to achieve in the song.

[Coilte]

[quote name='Ashwood1985' timestamp='1348920818' post='1819774']
.Regarding us all giving and recieving advice on how to mute unwanted sound and play fluidly at the same time, I think it's important to communicate and take note of the physical attributes of each persons hands. To give or receive advice without establishing an understanding if each others hands are similar could be very problematic!
[/quote]

Agreed. Forums can only give opinions, and it's up to each individual to decide what works for them.