flyfisher Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Or whether they are connected with oxygen-free unobtanium cables . . . (good game this ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I'm just gonna sit in this liferaft and wait for the tsunami to arrive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1345225217' post='1775290'] Or if they are valve watts or solid state watts..... *runs past usain....* [/quote] Now you've complicated it all by adding the Doppler effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1345229497' post='1775392'] Now you've complicated it all by adding the Doppler effect. [/quote] affected by the room size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Largely wallpaper absorbencey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 What if one lot of spuds was smaller-sized ones than the other lot..? Twice the weight, but not twice the volume..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1345203614' post='1774908'] Take out your left earphone, then your right... [/quote] Brilliant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Transaxle Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1345250725' post='1775677'] What if one lot of spuds was smaller-sized ones than the other lot..? Twice the weight, but not twice the volume..? [/quote]Or that they were sufficiently large that they could exert a gravitational pull on one another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 [quote name='Leon Transaxle' timestamp='1345218583' post='1775177'] I don't know. Maybe light bulbs weren't the best example as the production of light is a inefficient process involving much heat as a by product so there are too many other variables in the equation. Its the old candlepower unit that made me think of it. [/quote] Hmm, candelas and lumens and stuff? Hmmm, now you've got me unsure. Anyway, thats definitely a situation where perception comes into play, which was why I picked up on it. As for the spuds, if you got some extra dense ones, then that would definitely be double the weight but not double the volume. (Although maybe that's just double the mass, not double the weight .. I dunno, that's physics, and I'm tired ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 A 120w bulb is actually more bright than two 60w bulbs as it is more efficient in the visible spectrum. But you measure that in lumens and not the watt rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 [quote name='mart' timestamp='1345217453' post='1775160']But are two light bulbs really twice as bright as one? They are brighter, sure, but are they twice as bright?[/quote] [s]Watt[/s] what...... if one light bulb (it's not a bulb - it's a lamp!), what if one light bulb was a 30 watt - and the other was 60 watt? Eh? What? Still not twice as bright! Or .......... is it? ........ and should it be wired in with speaker cable, or instrument cable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1345326759' post='1776405'] [s]Watt[/s] what...... if one light bulb (it's not a bulb - it's a lamp!), what if one light bulb was a 30 watt - and the other was 60 watt? Eh? What? Still not twice as bright! Or .......... is it? ........ and should it be wired in with speaker cable, or instrument cable? [/quote] 30 watt and 60 whats? In that case you'd need to check the impedances, otherwise you might get magic smoke coming out of your bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrenleepoole Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I suspect many new bassists have all fallen into the trap of buying bigger and better amps all in the quest for more power, only to realise that it's not necessarily as simple as more watts equalling more power! Call me cynical, but I bet a few manufacturers use this misunderstanding to sell products to those who perhaps don't know better. I know that it's taken me a long time to get my head around stuff like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1345326573' post='1776404'] A 120w bulb is actually more bright than two 60w bulbs as it is more efficient in the visible spectrum. But you measure that in lumens and not the watt rating. [/quote] As is clearly demonstrated by energy-saving CFL lamps where a 15W CFL is roughly the same brightness as a 60W incandescent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1345370067' post='1776631'] As is clearly demonstrated by energy-saving CFL lamps where a 15W CFL is roughly the same brightness as a 60W incandescent. [/quote] You shouldn't believe what it says on the packet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dincz Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1345370067' post='1776631'] As is clearly demonstrated by energy-saving CFL lamps where a 15W CFL is roughly the same brightness as a 60W incandescent. [/quote] It's time for a similar breakthrough in loudspeakers. They, like incandescent bulbs, use around 90% of the amp's output power to produce heat and 10% is converted to sound. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 [quote name='dincz' timestamp='1345371985' post='1776684'] Any ideas? [/quote] Of course! I exchanged the lightbulb in the VU meter on my Ashdown with an LED. Fixed! best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 [quote name='dincz' timestamp='1345371985' post='1776684'] Any ideas? [/quote] How many alternative designs do you want? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker[list] [*] [list] [*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Horn_loudspeakers"][color=#000000]Horn loudspeakers[/color][/url] [*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Piezoelectric_speakers"][color=#000000]Piezoelectric speakers[/color][/url] [*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Magnetostrictive_speakers"][color=#000000]Magnetostrictive speakers[/color][/url] [*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Electrostatic_loudspeakers"][color=#000000]Electrostatic loudspeakers[/color][/url] [*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Ribbon_and_planar_magnetic_loudspeakers"][color=#000000]Ribbon and planar magnetic loudspeakers[/color][/url] [*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Bending_wave_loudspeakers"][color=#000000]Bending wave loudspeakers[/color][/url] [*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Flat_panel_loudspeakers"][color=#000000]Flat panel loudspeakers[/color][/url] [list] [*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Distributed_mode_loudspeakers"][color=#000000]Distributed mode loudspeakers[/color][/url] [/list][*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Heil_air_motion_transducers"][color=#000000]Heil air motion transducers[/color][/url] [*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Plasma_arc_speakers"][color=#000000]Plasma arc speakers[/color][/url] [*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Digital_speakers"][color=#000000]Digital speakers[/color][/url] [/list] [/list] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.I. Joe Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Theoretically, if two identical sound waves are perfectly in phase then the amplitude of the wave doubles and hence the volume is doubled, so two 100w amps should feasibly produce double the volume of one. However if the waves are perfectly out of phase then the waves cancel each other out, total amplitude is always zero, resulting in silence. In reality, wave physics don't really work as they do on paper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1345420467' post='1777408'] Theoretically, if two identical sound waves are perfectly in phase then the amplitude of the wave doubles and hence the volume is doubled, so two 100w amps should feasibly produce double the volume of one. However if the waves are perfectly out of phase then the waves cancel each other out, total amplitude is always zero, resulting in silence. In reality, wave physics don't really work as they do on paper! [/quote] The power of the waves double, but your ears work logarithmically so you don't perceive that as twice the volume. I don't think anybody's mentioned that the number of speakers has doubled in the OP's scenario, just to muddy the water and add to the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.I. Joe Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1345447309' post='1777465'] The power of the waves double, but your ears work logarithmically so you don't perceive that as twice the volume. [/quote] Ah I didn't know that, we didn't cover the human ear in A-Level physics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='derrenleepoole' timestamp='1345366348' post='1776590'] I suspect many new bassists have all fallen into the trap of buying bigger and better amps all in the quest for more power, only to realise that it's not necessarily as simple as more watts equalling more power! [/quote] You've demonstrated your own point very well there! More Watts, by definition, does equal more [i]power[/i]. The problem is that it is not straightforward to translate between power and [i]volume[/i], and it becomes even more complicated when you realise that some manufacturers quote RMS power whilst others quote Peak Power. [quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1345420467' post='1777408'] Theoretically, if two identical sound waves are perfectly in phase then the amplitude of the wave doubles and [i]hence the volume is doubled[/i], so two 100w amps should feasibly produce double the volume of one. [/quote] No. Perceived volume does not work like that I'm afraid! Doubling the power output will increase the volume, but not by a factor 2. The rough rule of thumb is that you need ten times as much power to sound twice as loud to the human ear. So a 100W amp is twice as loud as a 10W amp, and a 1000W amp is twice as loud as a 100W one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1345451835' post='1777525'] Ah I didn't know that, we didn't cover the human ear in A-Level physics [/quote] The psychology of perception is as important as the basic physics - actually, probably more so, as it's the brain that really 'hears' sounds and constructs the image of the world we 'see' through our eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Can I be the first to say... Mmmmm... 1000watts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrenleepoole Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1345455428' post='1777585'] You've demonstrated your own point very well there! More Watts, by definition, does equal more [i]power[/i]. The problem is that it is not straightforward to translate between power and [i]volume[/i], and it becomes even more complicated when you realise that some manufacturers quote RMS power whilst others quote Peak Power.[/quote] That's exactly the point I mean - power doesn't always equate to volume. That's what I was trying to say *honest* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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