ped Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='billyapple' timestamp='1344615772' post='1767234'] It's just my opinion and how I feel. I don't know if there is some sort of equation that means if I feel a certain way, others will feel the same too, but perhaps not be so vocal. I've not got any thoughts on how a voting system would work. As Kiwi says, a short-list is drawn up, and those with an interest could vote on that. I have not got a problem with the Mods that have been installed, just the method. With a vote, you may not get your way, but at least you get your say. But, I'm saying it anyway, but that's just me! Well, I'm off outside to enjoy some of this lovely evening [/quote] But then some would feel the same about the short list. It's very difficult but I think the main thing is that we see the mods as doing us a favour in many ways. It's actually quite difficult to approach people to ask, so it's never been seen by us as a privilege we bestow on anyone. A lot of the time every single member on here is a moderator anyway as they steer conversations in the right way and keep the vibe here so nice. The only thing the 'official' moderators have over that is some 'report this post to a moderator' reports to help us with and other thankless tasks of that type. It's really nice however to hear that people want to volunteer to help. To be honest I wasn't expecting anyone to feel jealous or anything. Not saying that's how you feel exactly but just rambling now. Every member here is crucial to the site, being a mod doesn't change anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Exactly. It's certainly nice to be asked, but I know from chatting at length with Pantherairsoft that there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes, for no pay, no real power, just the feel-good factor of done something good for BC. Ultimately mods are here to serve the site. And Ped. That gutter won't clear itself. When things get messy the mods take time out of their day to try and clear it up, when things get a bit raucous the mods take time out of their day to calm things down, and when Ped needs to dispose of a body from one of said events the mods take down their shower curtains to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johngh Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 From my point of view it's good that we have had some more Mods to help out on the site. I spend a fair amount of time on here, and I have to say that at time's being a Mod ain't easy especially when a lot of stuff needs doing and the Mods visible on the site are a bit thin on the ground. We've all been there. There is no eliteism from any of us, or any abuse of additional privilages, just remember that this is unpaid, we do it because we want to. I'd also like to pass on my thanks to Urb and Mythste for modding for so long, i can fully understand why they have decided to take a break. Anyway's onwards and forwards as they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1344624680' post='1767365'] But one thing most of the big ones have in common is after a big change in Mod team there is a meltdown. I've lost count how many I've been on or signed up to not been on for ages and just paid a visit to to pass unemployment boredom and discovered a meltdown in progress or the aftermath going on. From new mods getting power trips, still trying to find the boundaries that their predecessors have marked in urine many moons earlier and the new ones overstepping that mark pissing people off to simple jealousy from people not chosen or even asked stirring a bit of trouble then blaming an over zealous new mod. [/quote] Well, there's nothing that the new mods can do if people want to stir up a bit of trouble, but I'm hoping that won't happen. Something that I think all the new mods will agree with me on, is that we have absolutely no wish or desire to change this forum into something other than it's always been. IMO, this should be a partnership, everyone pulling together in the same way we've always done to ensure BC remains [b]the[/b] place to come to for bass friendly chat. From what I've seen, the majority of the work revolves around preventing scammers and spammers from running riot in here - something that most of us, myself included, had never thought about the lack of. [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1344624680' post='1767365'] I've seen new mods start breaking rules just because they now think they can. Hand out passwords to their forum mates so they can read whats in the Mod only part of the forum to one that went "rogue" on a forum where Mod accounts are separate from posting accounts (So anonymous mods) . Instead of simply deleting rule breaking posts as the norm he/she was retyping them making the poster look even more knobish (that was actually funny). [/quote] True, Administrators do have the necessary permissions on the system to do things like that - but mods don't. Even if they did, I don't doubt for one second that the Admins would practice some buttock reshaping exercises on anyone who tried playing juvenile games like that. These Admins are the same bunch of [s]reprobates[/s] highly skilled techs that have been kicking around doing 'adminy' stuff for yonks. [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1344624680' post='1767365'] Not saying all that will happen. But I will sit with the ten toes up and watch eagerly anyway [/quote] I think you're gonna be sat there for a long while waiting mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Cool! Congrats new mods and thanks to Urb and MythSte, been a pleasure! God, I love Basschat. Truckstop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='billyapple' timestamp='1344599955' post='1766898'] Installing so many new Mods will have an impact on the dynamic of the site. It's a shame you didnt open your short-lists up for vote by the BC commutity as a whole. It's the members who make BC what it is, and this member feels this has been elitist and undemocratic. I also have no care for drummers and guitarists. I think it will dilute the brand, and de-value members. But, I suppose it's a business like anything else, although I belive you run the risk of loosing the community, and I think this has been evidenced elsewhere. [/quote] Hi Billy, I take your points on board but offer this in reply. Admins are responsible for appointing the mods on internet forums everywhere, its part of their role. In using terms like "elitist" and "undemocratic", it sounds like you feel like this is a political process, Billy. I suggest politicising the appointment of moderators will make things unnecessarily complicated and won't guarantee a better outcome. But I understand that you may value the democratic process very highly. If you have a problem with any mods, I hope you'll make one of the admin responsible for finding a solution. In regard to diluting the brand, etc...I'm struggling to follow your logic. Each forum will be wholly separate from the other, that includes branding. I'm not sure how members would be devalued in new communities and who would be doing the valuing one way or another...but I'm happy to discuss offline if you have any questions...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1344627757' post='1767419'] Not new passwords. Passwords to their own account. effectively giving their mates all the mod (Black) magical powers Was quite interesting. a few of the Mods had been complaining about a long standing member in the "Secret place" who had decided to poke the hornets nest . So another Mod let him use their account so he could see what they were saying, that was followed by a bit of trouble making by a "hacker" who accessed that Mods account. Was fun. [/quote] Yep, that'd be a problem on any system. In the commercial world it's usually indicative of poor management systems, a lack of organisation, poor leadership and/or a lack of commitment to the 'service' being delivered. We have none of those problems - it'd drive me up the wall if we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1344624680' post='1767365'] I know exactly what you are saying.... Not saying all that will happen. But I will sit with the ten toes up and watch eagerly anyway [/quote] Well, how's this for starters, Johnston?.. [quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1344630746' post='1767466'] You morons. A child has been found dead. [/quote] [quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1344633186' post='1767498'] Thank you, Steve. I am quite aware, without the comment on my mental faculties. I thought Johnston's original post comical, so kept my response in kind. Because we could follow up on the matter of whether we could "see" evil in Hazell's eyes; but that road has been trodden by OT before, and never well. [/quote] [quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1344636178' post='1767548'] And people ask why discreet left. [/quote] [quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1344636524' post='1767554'] Yes, you are a moron. What is happening to Basschat? A mod makes light of a child being found, dead...f*** off will you. [/quote] [quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1344637143' post='1767564'] I apologise for name calling but things have changed. And not for the better. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='billyapple' timestamp='1344637601' post='1767574'] Well, how's this for starters, Johnston?.. [/quote] If you have a problem with another thread please hit the 'report to a moderator' button and it will be dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='ped' timestamp='1344638543' post='1767597'] If you have a problem with another thread please hit the 'report to a moderator' button and it will be dealt with. [/quote] I would have done, only it was the Mod who created the problem, so it seemed like a pointless exercise. Plus I was using current and valid evidence to respond to Johnstons statement made on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 The system works for everyone, Billy. If you have feedback, I - we - will want to hear it. It's the only way to learn. I've apologised, naturally - it was upsetting for me to see Steve upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='billyapple' timestamp='1344639902' post='1767616'] I would have done, only it was the Mod who created the problem, so it seemed like a pointless exercise. Plus I was using current and valid evidence to respond to Johnstons statement made on this thread. [/quote] Doesn't make any difference. Use the system, it works. ped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='billyapple' timestamp='1344639902' post='1767616'] I would have done, only it was the Mod who created the problem [/quote] Also goes to prove the point that mods aren't superhuman, they are just BC members like everyone else but will probably a bit less of a social life. We aren't beyond reproach. I'm pretty sure I told Wayne to F%&K off once, for example. [size=2]....I'm still waiting...[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='billyapple' timestamp='1344599955' post='1766898'] Installing so many new Mods will have an impact on the dynamic of the site. It's a shame you didnt open your short-lists up for vote by the BC commutity as a whole. It's the members who make BC what it is, and this member feels this has been elitist and undemocratic. I also have no care for drummers and guitarists. I think it will dilute the brand, and de-value members. But, I suppose it's a business like anything else, although I belive you run the risk of loosing the community, and I think this has been evidenced elsewhere. [/quote] This post seems to me that you are either unhappy that you weren't considered or you don't like the moderator choices we have made. This really should have been in a PM to us if you had legitimate concerns. To be honest, I havent been around this week since the new mods were recruited as I have just moved house, so I apologize if I have missed anything crucial I haven't seen with regards to this topic. Basschat is not a democracy (Though we have asked for opinions occasionally), what democracy or votes you may have taken part in are essentially window dressing and does not significantly change the day to day running of the site. It is wholly owned by Ped and Kiwi, you sign up to the site on their terms. If you don't like it you don't have to come back! This was a thread dedicated to announcing new moderators and the selection process should not really up for public discussion. The mods and admins have more information on potential candidates then you do with regards to posting history and warnings, as such we can make a better informed decision. Recruiting mods through a popularity contest is not a sensible way of selecting candidates. I would like to think that the people who run a site with thousands upon thousands of unique visitors racked up would have a better insight into the Basschat "Brand" and membership. Remember mod selection also takes into account peoples personalities, some of us are soft, some of us are tough, some like me speak their mind (And as such I am probably the most unpopular moderator, but I have uses as part of the moderating team because of it!.) We need a mix of different people to help tackle different situations. My opinions are my own, the other mods and admins may disagree with me. I may have gotten it completely wrong. But this is the situation as I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1344644534' post='1767646'] If you don't like it you don't have to come back! [/quote] Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1344644534' post='1767646'] I am probably the most unpopular moderator... [/quote] Sorry, lah, but I think I might be winning TeamGB another gold in that class! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tinman Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I rarely post these days but I am Mrs Lurksalot! Big thanks to all admin and mods (past and present) for their hard work Am now off to cause mischief somewhere in the hope that icastle will reprimand me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I was a mod back in't day, but I jacked in because there was very little backup when difficult decisions had to be made, and some mods (not all, by any means) were generally MIA. So, I think adding more is a good thing - spread the load and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1344644534' post='1767646'] This post seems to me that you are either unhappy that you weren't considered or you don't like the moderator choices we have made. This really should have been in a PM to us if you had legitimate concerns. To be honest, I havent been around this week since the new mods were recruited as I have just moved house, so I apologize if I have missed anything crucial I haven't seen with regards to this topic. Basschat is not a democracy (Though we have asked for opinions occasionally), what democracy or votes you may have taken part in are essentially window dressing and does not significantly change the day to day running of the site. It is wholly owned by Ped and Kiwi, you sign up to the site on their terms. If you don't like it you don't have to come back! This was a thread dedicated to announcing new moderators and the selection process should not really up for public discussion. The mods and admins have more information on potential candidates then you do with regards to posting history and warnings, as such we can make a better informed decision. Recruiting mods through a popularity contest is not a sensible way of selecting candidates. I would like to think that the people who run a site with thousands upon thousands of unique visitors racked up would have a better insight into the Basschat "Brand" and membership. Remember mod selection also takes into account peoples personalities, some of us are soft, some of us are tough, some like me speak their mind (And as such I am probably the most unpopular moderator, but I have uses as part of the moderating team because of it!.) We need a mix of different people to help tackle different situations. My opinions are my own, the other mods and admins may disagree with me. I may have gotten it completely wrong. But this is the situation as I see it. [/quote] I did send a PM to Kiwi, but felt it was brushed off, maybe that was because it was also in relation to others who had left the site, which I think is a shame. My issue has never been with installing new mods, neither is it jealousy. It is, and always has been the process, and I think I have been quite clear in that respect, but as you say, you have been away. I suppose I have been little naive in my outlook as to the Basschat dynamic, after all as you say Basschat is not a democracy and it is a business. So that's me told. But perhaps you can understand when people 'buy the T shirt', attend events, do's and members gigs, that the forum becomes a little more involving to its participants. Also a point that has perhaps got lost, is that I do care about Basschat. But when you post up stuff like '[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] what democracy or votes you may have taken part in are essentially window dressing' and '[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] If you don't like it you don't have to come back! ' It makes me wonder if you care about the members, and makes me less inclined to get involved.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Anyway, I feel I have had more than my say on this matter, so this will be my last post this subject.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It's a lovely day outside[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color] Edited August 11, 2012 by billyapple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 That said, there isn't any other way to do it. It's me, kiwi and the current mods/admins who have to rely on/work with the mods so we choose them. You don't apply for a job then let everyone who works there vote. There is no better way to do it, I'm afraid. And recruiting mods we like to work with makes the site better for everyone because we can work better when things DO happen. Perhaps you can suggest a better way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Sorry if that sounded aggressive. Not my intention. Anyway yes it is a lovely day, I'm going to take Nellie to Cafe Rouge for a coffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='ped' timestamp='1344676263' post='1767802'] Sorry if that sounded aggressive. Not my intention. Anyway yes it is a lovely day, I'm going to take Nellie to Cafe Rouge for a coffee [/quote] Ped, the site is great, and more power to you for taking the time to make it happen. I know I never did. It is only my opinion and they are like ar$3holes, everyone's got one. The only suggestion I think I made earlier was your short-lists could be voted on. Yeah, there's been some changes, yeah some might not be happy... Blah blah blah, knicky knacky noo! I'm going to get my push-mangle out and hold the traffic up on the M4, then cakes in Windsor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='billyapple' timestamp='1344675117' post='1767781'] I suppose I have been little naive in my outlook as to the Basschat dynamic, after all as you say Basschat is not a democracy and it is a business. So that's me told. But perhaps you can understand when people 'buy the T shirt', attend events, do's and members gigs, that the forum becomes a little more involving to its participants. Also a point that has perhaps got lost, is that I do care about Basschat. But when you post up stuff like '[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] what democracy or votes you may have taken part in are essentially window dressing' and '[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] If you don't like it you don't have to come back! ' It makes me wonder if you care about the members, and makes me less inclined to get involved.[/font][/color] [/quote] Buying any merchandise, be it from a band or website does not give you a controlling interest in how that band or website runs. Events and members gigs are pretty much all member run, not BC run. We do care about the overall membership, however we do what is best for the majority. I am being honest with my reference to Window dressing, however if Kiwi and Ped decide it makes sense to open up BC to public votes then that is their bailiwick. Remember your talking about politics and controlling interests ON THE INTERNET. We provide a service for free with non intrusive ads. Free classifieds that make people lots of money and allow people to trade. We provide a platform for giving advice and shooting the breeze with other members. We are essentially bringing thousands of bassists together and we have been doing it successfully for years, why change a winning formula where the majority of the membership are happy with the way things are run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witterth Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1344419442' post='1764078'] I wonder how it will pan out, looking forward to it. I also hope that some of these new mods retain the right to a personality, I enjoy reading much of what they have to say, and their styles, I would hate to see them hobbled by their new-found authority [/quote] you aint going to change MB1 Nige, its just not gonna happen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1344677207' post='1767813'] bailiwick. [/quote] I'm betting that's the first time the word "bailiwick" has been used on Basschat. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Edited August 11, 2012 by RhysP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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