Salt on your Bass? Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Morning, Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I have an outdoor gig coming up for the jubilee. At the moment, we're not sure if there will be full PA support for anything other than vocals. I've run several searches and cant find the steer I'm after. As I've never played outdoors before, I wasnt sure what affect this has on a bass rig. Do you lose a lot of lows and reinforcement outdoors? I'm assumuing you do with no walls near you, wind factor etc? I have an Orange Terror and a Compact. In your extensive experiences and infiniute wisdom, could this deal with a suburban street party? We play rock...ish covers (Ben E King through to Nirvana with a heavy rock vibe), have two guitarists, and I'd say the drummer was moderate to loud. I'd be happier with PA support of course, so will push for it, but in the absence of that my initial feeling is I need more speaker area....... Again, sorry if this is covered loads elsewhere. Thanks for any input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I think you`ll be fine with that excellent rig. Think of it this way, if the P.A is meant purely for vocals, it`s probably not that powerful and is meant to cover a small area of the street, rather than throw the sound right along it. If that`s the case,and remember the drummer will be completely accoustic too, you will have no problem matching it with your rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Having done one outdoor gig, I wouldn`t claim to be an expert, but what i did notice was how I needed to tweak the eq to get the lows. My usual settings sounded very thin without wooden stages/walls etc to assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Happy Jack and I shared an open air gig in a park with a Terror going through a BF Compact and Midget with no DI. Never remotely pushed it and one of the bands was too loud apparently...... Sholud be no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Just as importantly, I'd want to know about the power supply. Mains or generator and safety aspects etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 [quote name='Salt on your Bass?' timestamp='1332920603' post='1594753'] I have an Orange Terror and a Compact. [/quote] Stop worrying. I have no doubt you'll be the loudest thing there, without even pushing on the OTB's endless power..... BTW I've done a few outdoor and non-pa equipped gigs with the compact and a few different heads, including the OTB, you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I've done outdoor and marquee gigs armed only with a Hartke HA3500 and an 8 ohm Ashdown ABM 4x10. I'm sure you'll be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I do four or five of these most summers. The ones with full PA support are the most prevalent but, on the couple that are done without it, all I do is crank the bottom end up a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Don't expect the sound to any good but I doubt you'll be the worst affected. Most drummers don't hit well enough to project outside so the other instruments will be loud enough. The gtrs could likely blow it all, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt on your Bass? Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Thanks for the responses guys. So by playing outdoors, I'll lose the lows a bit and have to compensate on the eq, but volumewise should be fine in matching a non PA'd drummer, but the guitars could be a problem if they do what they want (as normal). [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1332938169' post='1595106'] Don't expect the sound to any good but I doubt you'll be the worst affected. Most drummers don't hit well enough to project outside so the other instruments will be loud enough. The gtrs could likely blow it all, of course. [/quote] I assume the sound issues as a band you're talking about are more related to guitars over the drums and getting a mix right without a soundguy and band PA? [quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1332923221' post='1594791'] Just as importantly, I'd want to know about the power supply. Mains or generator and safety aspects etc. [/quote] Our guitarist is an electrical engineer, so I'll leave this to him, although I should probably to a bit of reading up on this aspect. I think I saw a few posts about it when searching so I'll re-visit. Thanks for the thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Depends on the P.A... if you have a decent full range rig, then the re-inforcement is there..if you just have vox... the band mix will not project or stay together very well..some instruments will carry better or worse than the other. If you are in a small Pub garden then ok... More upper registered instruments carry better through open air and bass is more affected tone-wise. You will likely loose the botom end over an in-door gig so need to compensate. If you work of the basis that you can all hear each other [u]well[/u] on the stage area, then 40-50 feet back will also be not too bad. Any further and it becomes a trickier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Salt on your Bass?' timestamp='1332920603' post='1594753'] As I've never played outdoors before, I wasnt sure what affect this has on a bass rig. . [/quote]You lose space loading, which costs you 6dB of net axial low frequency output. To compensate for that you need twice the speaker count as indoors to reach the same levels, both on stage and in the audience, unless you happen to have 6dB of low frequency headroom that you can afford to lose. Edited March 28, 2012 by Bill Fitzmaurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 [quote name='Salt on your Bass?' timestamp='1332920603' post='1594753'] Morning, Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I have an outdoor gig coming up for the jubilee. At the moment, we're not sure if there will be full PA support for anything other than vocals. I've run several searches and cant find the steer I'm after. As I've never played outdoors before, I wasnt sure what affect this has on a bass rig. Do you lose a lot of lows and reinforcement outdoors? I'm assumuing you do with no walls near you, wind factor etc? I have an Orange Terror and a Compact. In your extensive experiences and infiniute wisdom, could this deal with a suburban street party? We play rock...ish covers (Ben E King through to Nirvana with a heavy rock vibe), have two guitarists, and I'd say the drummer was moderate to loud. I'd be happier with PA support of course, so will push for it, but in the absence of that my initial feeling is I need more speaker area....... Again, sorry if this is covered loads elsewhere. Thanks for any input. [/quote] IF you are worried then I would get your rig outside ona similar surface as what the stage will be to a similar size open space as what the audience will be. Set up, stand back (as if you are in the audience) and play, if it needs more bottom end, add some, stand back and hear it again. At least you'll know what to do when the time comes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 What Bill said. But nice to see no one jumping in with - you need a 12k rig mate. I always worry about outdoor gigs as I own the band PA, and use the PA for vocal only on all but a few gigs, but do have bass bins and extra amp for these occasions, just to help but only help. I mic bass drum and hi hat and one above. I mic the guitar cab just to give him some spread, and my bass DI. To help my bottom end. It is important to find out what the organiser has in mind. Not expecting Queen at Wembley coverage. But play to your own comfort levels so you can hear each other, so monitors could be more important, and play to a specific area as you would in a hall, don’t try and reach the end of the road and sound crap or blow horns and cook amps. You'll be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 BFM is right, The higher frequencies (those with wavelengths shorter than the diameter of your speaker) are beamed forwards but the lower frequencies are radiated 360 degrees. In a room they are reflected off walls floors and ceilings giving the extra 6dB. To get 6db you need 4x the amplifer power so you are going to notice. On the plus side the lack of reflected sounds means the bass will sound a lot cleaner. As it happens a BFM cab with a horn element would be ideal for use in this situation with higher efficiency and better control of radiation. Increasing the speakers radiating area helps a lot in this situation, outdoors is the only time I use a 'fridge' (actually a 1x15,4x10). Remember that the PA speakers have exactly the same problem so they may not help much unless they too have a spare 6dB. In the end you will probably be OK, people will hear the bass but it might not be so bassy, you might have to turn up full and tweak the eq to get max bass but avoiding overloading the rig. It'll sound different but you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt on your Bass? Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Thanks guys, thats really helpful - although it hasn't produced the response that I can go to my better half to say "I definitely need to increase the size of my rig to do this properly - see what the guys on basschat said!" . Obviously theres details to be screwed down before the gig, but feeling much happier now about my rig dealing with outdoors, and feel I might almost sound like I know what I'm talking about with the organisers. Also appreciate the tips on setting up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benplaysbass Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I played my fist outdoor gig with an old 100 watt combo, I could still be heard but had to crank it to almost full volume which sounded pretty nasty. Now using my Ashdown magc410 combo and extension cab and have no problems at all. Most of our gigs in the summer are outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 When I've played outside I've found that it was the high end that needed more than usual attention. We did have a PA but I didn't play through it, though we mic'd the kick drum. During the sound check bass volume was fine (Ashdown Mag300 and two 210 cabs) but the cymbals were getting lost. So we hung a couple mics over the drum kit, put them through the PA and it made a huge difference to the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='Salt on your Bass?' timestamp='1333098635' post='1597232'] Thanks guys, thats really helpful - although it hasn't produced the response that I can go to my better half to say "I definitely need to increase the size of my rig to do this properly - see what the guys on basschat said!" . [/quote] Well I disagree with everything that has been said here. You need a rig at least twice the size as you currently have, maybe even as much as three times the size. Obviously, this will mean that you will need to increase your stamina and it has been medically proven that a combination of being fed favourite food and sexual favours on demand are the best way of doing this. [size=2]Cheques to:[/size] [size=2]Dr Ian Castle[/size] [size=2]Chancer Cottage[/size] [size=2]Little Bribery[/size] [size=2]Leicestersh*te[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt on your Bass? Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Thanks Ian, based on science, I think thats the most technically accurate post so far. Now to send it to print...... [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1333102996' post='1597352'] Well I disagree with everything that has been said here. You need a rig at least twice the size as you currently have, maybe even as much as three times the size. Obviously, this will mean that you will need to increase your stamina and it has been medically proven that a combination of being fed favourite food and sexual favours on demand are the best way of doing this. [size=2]Cheques to:[/size] [size=2]Dr Ian Castle[/size] [size=2]Chancer Cottage[/size] [size=2]Little Bribery[/size] [size=2]Leicestersh*te[/size] [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 My 'indoor' rig is the 2x15 but I use the 2x18 outdoors precisely because you lose a lot of bottom end. Mind you, you have to be a total idiot to want to use a 107kg cab at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1333228757' post='1599082'] Mind you, you have to be a total idiot to want to use a 107kg cab at all. [/quote] Either that or you have shares in a surgical truss company... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBass Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I just came across this thread having searched for advice on playing outdoors. We've got a few small outdoor events coming up this summer which will have proper sound and PA, so no problem there but this coming weekend we've got a night time beer garden gig which we're all really looking forward to. The weather forecast is decent so it should be a pleasant night but we'll basically be running our indoor pub size set in an outdoor situation. I'll be using my TC Electronic BG250/15 which in a bar or pub has more than sufficient power but from reading earlier posts it looks like I'll have to eq accordingly to compensate, so thanks for the good advice everyone. I'm worried that I might have to push the amp to it's limit and compromise on tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 It's a real education in acoustics playing outdoors, good experience. It's useful to have a sound guy off stage to tweak the FOH? It's also very different if you have a stage or trailer with canvas sides or are you just in the open? Monitors are a must. Enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Personally I wouldn't worry at all about compensating for lost lows. I'd cut everything under 80hz so that the punters have a chance of hearing the bass drum. The magic of bass is in the low mids. As long as they project well enough then there's no problem. Dont forget, you only need to be as loud as the drum kit, which is going to be unamplified on this occasion. To answer the OP, your rig will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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