CraigyJ Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Hi guys... Looking some advice and this seems to be the best place to find it...!! Will give you a quick run down of my situation and hopefully you will be able to see where I'm coming from... I'm primarily a guitarist and I write and record different styles of music from blues to rock and folk and anything inbetween. I record my guitars directly into a DAW using Amplitube for my tones. I also record bass this way. I have a good quality sound card with a guitar impedance input which I can also plug my bass into. I have a really cheap and nasty bass which I just bought because I wanted live bass rather than anything digitally generated. I run my bass into Amplitube's Ampeg amp sim. My problem is that no matter how I EQ my bass tracks they will never sit in a mix...I'm 99% certain this is due to the limitations of the bass its self...it was like £110 new...!! It was Ok for a while but now I've out grown it...I need something of a decent quality to record with...!!! I just wondered if you guys had any suggestions as to what bass I should be looking at for recording purposes...it would never be used live...and I'm wondering if anyone would choose a certain typre of bass for recording work as opposed to live work...??? I will be looking at a budget of £400+ Any info would be greatly appreciated...I know guitars very well...but when it comes to basses I am green as hell... And interestingly enough I can make a crap guitar sound good...but I can't make a crap bass sound good...and crappy bass throws the whole mix out...!! CraigyJ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Precision. Fit`s with an Ampeg like, well Starsky & Hutch, Gin & Tonic, Big Mac & Fries, you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwood662 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Yeah for 400 you could pick up a Mexican P. Can't argue with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Before you invest in a new bass, have you changed the strings lately? Even if you want a thuddy tone and end up EQing out the treble and zing of new strings, there's a lot of harmonic detail lower in the frequency range that dies off as the strings get old - it can make a huge difference when recording. The weak link in a lot of cheaper basses tends to be the pickups, so it may also be worth considering a pickup upgrade rather than scrapping the instrument if it plays well (as a lot of modern budget basses do). I record using a parts bass made out of all sorts of cheap bits and bobs, but I chucked decent pickups in and it sounds great (all I care about really). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) New strings - just ,just played in, say three hours old, is great. A real understanding of frequency mixing - fitting the bass in is one of the hardest parts of mixing. A thorough understanding of compression and ducking Sacrilege fo rthis site I know but a decently set up £110 bass will go a very long way with the right strings and a good DI, if its the right bass for the song you are golden. Personally I'd aim at a jazz bass, the neck pup alone is along way toward the P sound, the two pups blended scoops the mids and gives a classic funk tone, bridge pup solo'ed with a healthy bass boost at mixdown gives a magnificent tight but burpy tone that will cut through really nicely. Edited March 16, 2012 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 All of what 51m0n says; sage advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) One other thing, and this may sound daft, but it really needs to be played well too. The groove has to be there or it will fight the mix.... Be extra vigilent about note lengths, and strings ringing and not being damped properly, too many bass takes to mention have been ruined by poor playing technique and sympathetic string ringing. As soon as you try and compress the part the crud ruins it for a start! Edited March 16, 2012 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='CraigyJ' timestamp='1331925651' post='1581103'] I'm primarily a guitarist... [/quote] Nuff said Seriously, get one of these: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/169759-farida-fjb-6-bass-review/page__pid__1579493#entry1579493"]http://basschat.co.u...93#entry1579493[/url] Edited March 17, 2012 by redstriper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRichards Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Even a cheap bass should sound good. Based on your information, your problem is amplitude. Take your bass and turn volume and tone all the way up for max signal. Record the track raw, no amp simulator, no effect. Then go back and record a second track with effects. Based on your set up and musical taste use the B-15r sim, cut the Mid a touch, boost the bass to about 7 and the treble to 7.5. Then play the two tracks back, blend in the raw to your liking. I think you will find that solves the problem. Otherwise, any bass with two J pickups will work best for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRichards Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 The mistake most make is recording with effects. Bass effects don't work as well as guitar effects. I record a raw signal and use my preamp to shape a second track. Amp simulators for bass are eh at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Perhaps have a look at your technique? Not saying you're a bad player, just saying that a lot of people take decent playing technique for granted these days because they think they can just EQ any imperfections out. It's all in the fingers/plectrum! I also echo the 'upgrade the pickups' sentiments. Spend some money on some good pickups and you'll be amazed how much of a difference they can make. If you're used to playing your budget bass, persevere with it! At least if you buy new pickups and you're still unhappy, you can use them to upgrade any future purchase! Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1331926991' post='1581140'] Precision. Fit`s with an Ampeg like, well Starsky & Hutch, Gin & Tonic, Big Mac & Fries, you get the idea. [/quote] +1 I've only recently owned a Precision after owning Jazzes and other basses. I'm amazed how great they sound in the mix and never get lost. One thing I would warn against though, is be careful how you EQ your guitar. Make sure there's not too much bass on it or it will muddy up the mix and the bass guitar will be harder to hear. Edited March 17, 2012 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rOB Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1332000284' post='1581961']be careful how you EQ your guitar. Make sure there's not too much bass on it or it will muddy up the mix and the bass guitar will be harder to hear.[/quote] Well said, bass heavy eq on a guitar is a huge bug bear of lots of bass players. Everything 51m0n has said +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmachine2112 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 A good set up and decent strings go a long way.Keep all your notes constant,ie not some louder than others or longer unless it,s for accent or dynamics. I would record 1 channel direct to board and another one with a sansamp /behringer clone and mix them together.If your stuck for tracks then sansamp /clone it. Guitars will give you the biggest headache or should I say guitar players with their scooped middle sound-all top and heavy bottom. If they heard there favourite guitar sound soloed on the board they would have a heart attack.Having said that some geetards have the savvy to understand this.I know almost right away if they do cause you can run your bass amp a lot lower volume wise cause they don,t clash with you at all. A decent pick up is good as well as long as the bass is nice to play in your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Olkay, I have 2 setups. One for ipad, one for mac mini. For the mac mini: Line 6 ux1 ( includes pod farm) Plugged into studio monitors. Loads of virtual amps. And cabs here. You can also use garageband. For ipad I use irig into either garageband or free GK App ( better than amplitube?) With either of these setups, it doesnt matter what bass i use . If , or should i say when line 6 do the podfarm/gearbox equivalent for ipad , i will get that too . In other words, i think you dont need another bass,) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinball Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Am I right in thinking that provided that for recording that its important that the bass gives a good clear sound but it isn't as important to have wide tone variations. My thinking being that if you have a good "raw" sound track you can mess around with it afterwards? Edited March 18, 2012 by Pinball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigyJ Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 Many thanks for all the advice guys... All makes sense. Think I will go the way of fitting a decent pup and ditching amplitube for the bass track and see how that goes. I think I'm doing most other things pretty much ok...I run high pass filters on all other tracks, guitars, synth etc to make sure there is nothing fighting the bass for space. The biggest problem I've had is that anything played on the low e is really muddy...the other strings sit in the mix fairly well but that low e is just so boomy...by the time I've taken all the boomy frequncies out there is nothing left. Hopefully a decent pup and a new set of stings will help...!! CraigyJ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rOB Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 [quote name='CraigyJ' timestamp='1332084955' post='1582932'] The biggest problem I've had is that anything played on the low e is really muddy...the other strings sit in the mix fairly well but that low e is just so boomy...by the time I've taken all the boomy frequncies out there is nothing left. Hopefully a decent pup and a new set of stings will help...!! [/quote] Just a thought but you could try lowering the pickup on the E string side? Might help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 [quote name='Pinball' timestamp='1332066971' post='1582639'] Am I right in thinking that provided that for recording that its important that the bass gives a good clear sound but it isn't as important to have wide tone variations. My thinking being that if you have a good "raw" sound track you can mess around with it afterwards? [/quote] You cant polish a turd..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 [quote name='CraigyJ' timestamp='1332084955' post='1582932'] Many thanks for all the advice guys... All makes sense. Think I will go the way of fitting a decent pup and ditching amplitube for the bass track and see how that goes. I think I'm doing most other things pretty much ok...I run high pass filters on all other tracks, guitars, synth etc to make sure there is nothing fighting the bass for space. The biggest problem I've had is that anything played on the low e is really muddy...the other strings sit in the mix fairly well but that low e is just so boomy...by the time I've taken all the boomy frequncies out there is nothing left. Hopefully a decent pup and a new set of stings will help...!! CraigyJ... [/quote] Dodgy string? Dodgy setup (pickup height) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigyJ Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1332088224' post='1582997'] You cant polish a turd..... [/quote] Absolutely agree...!! And setup is most likely doing nothing to help as well. This bass came so badly set up that I had to shift some of the saddles by about 10mm just to get the intonation in...In all likelyhood the string heights are way out and it should really go for a proper set up. I know from 20 something years of guitar playing that muddy horrible mush from the lower end of the instrument is usually from pants pick ups... So I guess my question is now...do I spend £60 on a decent set of Seymore Dunkan pups and sent the old girl for a set up...or do I cut my losses and go for a higher quality new bass... I saw a really nice looking bass today for £400...looked like a Warwick rip off...was nice tho...have to decide which option I'll go for... CraigyJ... Edited March 18, 2012 by CraigyJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Definitely try some good quality new strings first. Could save you a tonne of cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='CraigyJ' timestamp='1332097470' post='1583251'] Absolutely agree...!! And setup is most likely doing nothing to help as well. This bass came so badly set up that I had to shift some of the saddles by about 10mm just to get the intonation in...In all likelyhood the string heights are way out and it should really go for a proper set up. I know from 20 something years of guitar playing that muddy horrible mush from the lower end of the instrument is usually from pants pick ups... So I guess my question is now...do I spend £60 on a decent set of Seymore Dunkan pups and sent the old girl for a set up...or do I cut my losses and go for a higher quality new bass... I saw a really nice looking bass today for £400...looked like a Warwick rip off...was nice tho...have to decide which option I'll go for... CraigyJ... [/quote] You can get a real warwick for that second hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 what kind of bass are you using? sorry if you've already said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewk Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 a musicman sub.. great on a budget and versatile.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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