risingson Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 [quote name='SisterAbdullahX' post='1327866' date='Aug 4 2011, 10:00 PM']Marcus doesn't have high standards of tone, you say? It doesn't take much effort for you to get a better tone than him, you say?? Go and dig out "The Nightfly" by Donald Fagen, have a listen to "Maxine" and "The Goodbye Look" and reconsider those statements. Then post something you played on that demonstrates how you get a better tone.[/quote] Quite. Marcus's slap tone isn't my thing, but I can't help thinking this might be because so many single slap bass players have ripped his sound off and I've just got tired of hearing it. On the other hand, you simply cannot deny his adaptability to so many musical situations and his extraordinary skill as a bass player. You just do not get work with the biggest names in New York City without being that adaptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Chris2112' post='1327680' date='Aug 4 2011, 07:41 PM']Marcus Miller has played a jazz bass as his main bass for years...reason to suspect he doesn't have the highest standards of tone...confirmed when you listen to him! Victor Wooten on the other hand, with his brace of Fodera basses has always sounded amazing. Mind you, Marcus has played enough boutique basses over the years to know what he likes and what he doesn't like. That said, it doesn't take much effort to get a better tone than he has so I suppose it's a case of horses for courses.[/quote]You can always count on Chris to come out with the statement of the thread.. your opinion of course Edited August 5, 2011 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyvee Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I share with you an exchange I had with Marcus on my Myspace page a while back. May 30, 2010 NotstrictlyJazz says I'm curious as to your view on basses. I know you are well known for using Fenders ( heavily customised) and Fodera basses. But I would like to know if you feel there is an upper limit above which you feel there is no benefit sonically to a bass guitar and that a buyer is merely paying increasing cost for things that do not make the bass a better instrument in terms of it sound, playability, versatility and its reliability as a musical instrument? All the best with your musical projects. Delano Marcus Miller says Hey Delano, I do think there's a point where you are paying for exotic materials that don't really improve the sound yes. Most of the high end basses are created to enable the bass to sound more clearly like an extended range guitar. If that's not your goal, you can save a lot of money by buying an old school bass. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1327680' date='Aug 4 2011, 07:41 PM']Marcus Miller has played a jazz bass as his main bass for years...reason to suspect he doesn't have the highest standards of tone...confirmed when you listen to him! Victor Wooten on the other hand, with his brace of Fodera basses has always sounded amazing. Mind you, Marcus has played enough boutique basses over the years to know what he likes and what he doesn't like. That said, it doesn't take much effort to get a better tone than he has so I suppose it's a case of horses for courses.[/quote] Horses for courses indeed. "Better" tone is entirely subjective. I don't like Marcus's tone either (in fact I'm not a fan at all) but if he likes it it's the right tone for him. FWIW I don't like Victor's tone either. They're about neck and neck in terms of tones I don't like. Are they bad tones? No. They're just not to my taste. I suspect I wouldn't like your tone much from various things you've posted and you probably wouldn't like mine either. So what? I'm me and you're you, and we're not aiming for the same thing. I don't like Mercs, BMWs or Ferraris but that doesn't mean they're crap cars, it just means I don't like 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 [quote name='jazzyvee' post='1328580' date='Aug 5 2011, 12:22 PM']Marcus Miller says Hey Delano, I do think there's a point where you are paying for exotic materials that don't really improve the sound yes. Most of the high end basses are created to enable the bass to sound more clearly like an extended range guitar. If that's not your goal, you can save a lot of money by buying an old school bass. M[/quote] This is very true IMO, which is where the issues between those trying to sound like one or the other often arise as they often can't appreciate the other's perspective. As in my post above, different people want different things and as BRX said they should find what works for them whilst appreciating that others may think/feel differently. As I believe I've said before, if you have size 9 feet you don't want size 8 shoes and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 [quote name='SisterAbdullahX' post='1327866' date='Aug 4 2011, 10:00 PM']Marcus doesn't have high standards of tone, you say? It doesn't take much effort for you to get a better tone than him, you say?? Go and dig out "The Nightfly" by Donald Fagen, have a listen to "Maxine" and "The Goodbye Look" and reconsider those statements. Then post something you played on that demonstrates how you get a better tone.[/quote] yeah great tracks from a great album. Certainly one of my desert island CDs. I have seen Marcus live twice - his tone is amazing - massive yet not muddy or shrill. Great definition. I think he is saying that its more about the player than the bass - and hes right. Marcus/Victor/Stanley will all still sound great on a Squire bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingerz Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Marcus's tone is not really of great concern here. Conceptually I totally agree with what he is saying. High price doesn't guarantee that the tone/feel will suit you or be really fat. I've had really pricey gear that is fantastic/perfect but just doesn't do it for me. He's not knocking expensive gear, he's just saying that more isn't always more.. I should know, I play a £700 (ish-new) Japanese Fender Jazz 4, and a £3,500 (new) Celinder 5. As it's the only 5 I've felt comes up to old school 'round-ness' standards (for me). I think I'd keep the 4 if one had to go! If I'd have found a 5 string for £500 that I was happy with I would have bought that, but I'm yet to find it. Totally personal, but I totally get his point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merello Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='SisterAbdullahX' post='1327866' date='Aug 4 2011, 10:00 PM']Marcus doesn't have high standards of tone, you say? It doesn't take much effort for you to get a better tone than him, you say?? Go and dig out "The Nightfly" by Donald Fagen, have a listen to "Maxine" and "The Goodbye Look" and reconsider those statements. Then post something you played on that demonstrates how you get a better tone.[/quote] One of the great 'bass' albums ever. Wee aside: [url="http://www.youtube.com/user/StealingDan#p/p"]http://www.youtube.com/user/StealingDan#p/p[/url] StealingDan tribute band! Edited August 5, 2011 by merello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1327680' date='Aug 4 2011, 07:41 PM']Marcus Miller has played a jazz bass as his main bass for years...reason to suspect he doesn't have the highest standards of tone...confirmed when you listen to him! Victor Wooten on the other hand, with his brace of Fodera basses has always sounded amazing. Mind you, Marcus has played enough boutique basses over the years to know what he likes and what he doesn't like. That said, it doesn't take much effort to get a better tone than he has so I suppose it's a case of horses for courses.[/quote] Not sure what you mean about his tone, mate. I would say it's the most sought-after and recognisable slap sound in the history of bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I like the irony of merello posting a link to a Steely Dan tribute band and then Pete posting right after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1329188' date='Aug 5 2011, 08:04 PM']I like the irony of merello posting a link to a Steely Dan tribute band and then Pete posting right after.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1327759' date='Aug 4 2011, 08:43 PM']Funny...I think Marcus' tone is awesome,whereas Victors is a lot thinner and not as nice. I'd reckon that Marcus has an extremely high standard when it comes to his sound.[/quote] Got to agree. Stanley and Wotten are fantastic players but tone wasn't their forte. MM has always had pretty much the same sound, so much so that he redefined the Jazz/sadowksy model, prety much. Clark had his Almebic tone at a time when the amp chain probably didn't cope as well with it. Other Alembic at that time guys really struggled with this live as well, IMO. But Wotten is ALL technique..and sound/tone is the least impressive part of it all. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I have to say I've always loved the Marcus Miller sound, specifically for funk, but then I also love Stanley's sound. As for Victor, I'm a big fan but yeah I'd have to agree, I don't feel he's got a tone thats particularily good (obviously imo). With regards Marcus's tone - let's not forget that Marcus does use a pretty complex preamp in his set-up, so we're not talking about just a bog standard Fender Jazz tone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 The point about good wood combinations AND construction is very pertinent, IMO. I have 2 basses that sustain like crazy and resonate very well to my ears. I put that down to the quality of construction..which just happened to be hand-made. How that really compares to the norm, I am not really that sure, but I buy into the idea because it has worked for me on 3 basses I have owned by the same luthier. I also happen to have seen the build process which is a two man effort. I also know that other more mass produced basses have also been able to hit that target, but maybe less consistantly. But that doesn't mean you cannot find a gem, that way, every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Don't forget that Geddy has played and recorded with his $200 Pawn Shop Jazz for years. Good advert for keeping it cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 [quote name='SisterAbdullahX' post='1327866' date='Aug 4 2011, 10:00 PM']Marcus doesn't have high standards of tone, you say? It doesn't take much effort for you to get a better tone than him, you say?? Go and dig out "The Nightfly" by Donald Fagen, have a listen to "Maxine" and "The Goodbye Look" and reconsider those statements. Then post something you played on that demonstrates how you get a better tone.[/quote] Don't get your knickers in a twist, pet. Just because I don't like his tone doesn't mean you can like it. Different vinegar strokes for different folks. You might like that 'jazz on steroids' sound, for me it does absolutely nothing. Give me a Wal, Alembic or Status tone any day thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' post='1329557' date='Aug 6 2011, 07:50 AM']Got to agree. Stanley and Wotten are fantastic players but tone wasn't their forte. MM has always had pretty much the same sound, so much so that he redefined the Jazz/sadowksy model, prety much. Clark had his Almebic tone at a time when the amp chain probably didn't cope as well with it. Other Alembic at that time guys really struggled with this live as well, IMO. But Wotten is ALL technique..and sound/tone is the least impressive part of it all. IMO.[/quote] I love Stanley's tone. One of my favourite tones ever. I love the tone of pretty much all the "Other Alembic" guys too. I'll say it again; GOOD TONE IS COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' post='1329557' date='Aug 6 2011, 07:50 AM']Got to agree. Stanley and Wotten are fantastic players but tone wasn't their forte. MM has always had pretty much the same sound, so much so that he redefined the Jazz/sadowksy model, prety much. Clark had his Almebic tone at a time when the amp chain probably didn't cope as well with it. Other Alembic at that time guys really struggled with this live as well, IMO. But Wotten is ALL technique..and sound/tone is the least impressive part of it all. IMO.[/quote] Who is this 'Wotten' you speak of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' post='1330149' date='Aug 6 2011, 06:11 PM']Who is this 'Wotten' you speak of?[/quote] The singer out of Glen Matlock's band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I thought he meant Wotten R Sohl, the famous blue grass picker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) Who thinks if Victor, Marcus and Mark king all set their own gear up how they like it then swapped over they would all sound like themselves still? I do. Edited August 6, 2011 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzaboy Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Dave Gilmours guitar tech has said that no matter what guitar Dave plays, he still sounds like Dave. It`s all in the fingers. If I played Marcus M jazz I would still sound sh*t Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleblob Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1330292' date='Aug 6 2011, 08:13 PM']Who thinks if Victor, Marcus and Mark king all set their own gear up how they like it then swapped over they would all sound like themselves still? I do.[/quote] I think I read somewhere (poss. on this site) that Marcus, Stanley and Victor did that whilst doing the SMV album and supposedly did sound just like themselves - however I'd certainly be interested to hear Stanley Clarke making Marcus's Jazz sound like an Alembic - but I think in terms of their playing you'd probably recognise them instantly. EDIT: Oh wait possibly not if each set their rigs up to sound like themselves and then let the other play through it - I certainly would suspect Mark King's rig would stand out as one being difficult for Marcus to sound like Marcus through - but just an opinion as I obviously haven't heard them do this Edited August 6, 2011 by purpleblob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 [quote name='jezzaboy' post='1330304' date='Aug 6 2011, 08:25 PM']Dave Gilmours guitar tech has said that no matter what guitar Dave plays, he still sounds like Dave. It`s all in the fingers. If I played Marcus M jazz I would still sound sh*t Jez[/quote] This sort of cliche gets bandied about all the time, though I am sure there is some truth in it, Stuart Hamm playing a Kubicki still sounds like Stuart Hamm. Stuart Hamm playing an Urge II still sounds like Stuart Hamm even though the bass tone is different. If you took a '59 P Bass and gave it to Mark King and asked him to slap Mr. Pink out on it, I'm sure he could but the tone is never going to be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Flea to my knowledge has used live Wal, Musicman 2 and 3 EQ versions, Modulus graphite neck basses and Fender Jazz basses, Sounds just like the record everytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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