Tal Wilkenfeld

[lowdown]

[quote name='deaver' post='1308460' date='Jul 18 2011, 09:39 PM']This much more fun last time we did it [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11101"]Tal Wilkenfeld[/url][/quote]



A few funny people have flown the nest since then...



Garry

Edited July 18, 2011 by lowdown

[thodrik]

I must be sitting in the middle here, but I find no evidence on which to find that she isn't at least very good technically. There is no way she would be able to keep getting the gigs she has if she wasn't capable of fulfilling her role when playing with top musicians. If she wasn't good, then I'm sure her detractors would find ample youtube videos of her making mistakes, which obviously would have been brought up by now if they existed.

Of course connections and networking help, but she has been able to back it up pretty well over the last few years. I don't know how her position is any different from any other bassist that has networked or used contacts to get a gig.

That said I'm not that fussed with her solo stuff. It is nice and technically fairly good, I just find the tone a bit 'safe' and the playing seems to lack the dynamism or excitement that I would expect from a top solo player. In this sense my opinion of her isn't that different from my opinion of John Mayer, another very good musician whose solo work and compositional skills do nothing for me personally.

I just find the argument of 'if you don't think she is amazing then you are a sexist pig with severe jealousy' to be a bit of stretch. However, I do think that her looks have prompted people to claim both that she is a lot worse, as well as a lot better, than she actually is. I think that my opinion on John Mayer would apply here too!

[4000]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1307079' date='Jul 17 2011, 09:06 PM']I think they can. Herbie's band (I think) sounds so much better when he uses Nathan East or Pino or James Genus.[/quote]

Matter of opinion. I don't rate Nathan at all, never have. Pino & James are great but I still prefer Tal. Is she better? Define "better".

[Wil]

[quote name='deaver' post='1308460' date='Jul 18 2011, 09:39 PM']This much more fun last time we did it [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11101"]Tal Wilkenfeld[/url][/quote]

Christ, I had a right stick up my arse in that thread.

[dave_bass5]

She can certainly play but that clip, at least, left me feeling just how bland that type of playing it. She is a women so she stands out a bit from the crowd (fact, not a sexist remark) but her playing doesn't.

She is certainly no Gail Ann Dorsey IMO.

Edited July 19, 2011 by dave_bass5

[chris_b]

Tal's a very good player but her music IS bland, so is Four Play even though they have Nathan East on bass, so are the Yellowjackets with Jimmy Haslip. All great players but playing lift music!!

[lowdown]

[quote name='4000' post='1309110' date='Jul 19 2011, 01:32 PM']Define "better".[/quote]


I suppose that depends on what side of the fence you are on, it's not how you define 'better',
It's who defines 'better' that really matters.
In the case of Nathan East, over forty years of hirers & firers have defined him as 'better'.
Of course if you are only in it for fun, it matters not.
But if you are in it for fun & money, it does.



Garry

[grahamd]

Surprised this thread has gone on without anyone posting this in defence



Feel, tone [i]and[/i] groove.

Also she's a kid, making the most of what she's got. Not yet a great but time is on her side

[4000]

[quote name='jacko' post='1307111' date='Jul 17 2011, 09:34 PM']I'm sure she's very good at what she does but I can't help wondering why players like this didn't just buy a guitar in the first place.[/quote]

But she did...she played guitar first.

EDIT: Ah, was beaten to it.

Edited July 19, 2011 by 4000

[JTUK]

I like what she does.... not sure I could put up with a whole album of it, but you could say that about a lot in that genre.

Maybe she gets a lot of attention for being a woman, but so what..!!

I prefer her to Nathan East, who must be after the same sort of gig. That puts her at that sort of standard.

[4000]

[quote name='lowdown' post='1309199' date='Jul 19 2011, 02:35 PM']I suppose that depends on what side of the fence you are on, it's not how you define 'better',
It's who defines 'better' that really matters.
In the case of Nathan East, over forty years of hirers & firers have defined him as 'better'.
Of course if you are only in it for fun, it matters not.
But if you are in it for fun & money, it does.



Garry[/quote]

Who is the funniest comedian? The one who makes YOU laugh the most.

Is Nathan a good player? Obviously he must be. Do I like what he plays? Not especially. It's all so subjective, as others have stated before. Bass playing is not a 100m race, where you can state on the day who was the "best", i.e. fastest. It's all about who does it for YOU. Some will argue that versatility is paramount, but most of my favourite players aren't very versatile at all; what they are is perfect (IMO) in the context of the music they play. Others may disagree. So what?

What depresses me most (and I've been guilty of this too) is the negativity that is always expressed when someone posts a clip of a player they like, be it Tal or anyone else. Enjoy. Or don't. It's that simple.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='4000' post='1309291' date='Jul 19 2011, 03:55 PM']What depresses me most (and I've been guilty of this too) is the negativity that is always expressed when someone posts a clip of a player they like, be it Tal or anyone else. Enjoy. Or don't. It's that simple.[/quote]

Thats called having a different opinion and if people dont want other opinion (and im sure they do) they really shouldn't post on a public web forum.

[lowdown]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1309305' date='Jul 19 2011, 04:11 PM']Thats called having a different opinion and if people dont want other opinion (and im sure they do) they really shouldn't post on a public web forum.[/quote]

Yep.



Garry

Edited July 19, 2011 by lowdown

[Muzz]

A lot of amusingly ruffled feathers here, for a thread which started "Tal Wilkenfeld, amazing..." and continued " Take a look at this and make up your mind about her talent"

Then everyone who did take a look, and made up their mind that they didn't wholly agree with the OP, were critised for their opinion by people who didn't agree with them.

Pretty much The Internet all over, really. Except nobody posted THAT picture of Ms Wilkenbob. C'mon guys, Rule 34 and all that...




PS My opinion? She's a talented played, but amazing? No, wouldn't use that word.

[retrohelix]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1309305' date='Jul 19 2011, 04:11 PM']Thats called having a different opinion and if people dont want other opinion (and im sure they do) they really shouldn't post on a public web forum.[/quote]

Opinions like the ones expressed here seem a little silly, when she could probably outplay most of us at any given genre.

*edit: I didn't mean that. I just meant... imagine yourself on stage next to Tal in front of Jeff Beck, and you're asked to take a solo. She's definitely on it. What does your opinion matter at this point?

Edited July 19, 2011 by retrohelix

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='retrohelix' post='1309351' date='Jul 19 2011, 04:53 PM']Opinions like the ones expressed here seem a little silly, when she could probably outplay most of us at any given genre.

*edit: I didn't mean that. I just meant... imagine yourself on stage next to Tal in front of Jeff Beck, and you're asked to take a solo. She's definitely on it. What does your opinion matter at this point?[/quote]

Well ive already stated i think she has talent, its the music i didnt like, and yes, she could outplay me with just one broken finger but so could most people on here.
I've heard some fantastic playing from members on here that have been much more enjoyable but that doesn't make Tal's playing any less impressive to others.

I admit i do have a problem with virtuoso bass playing like in the video posted, i think its boring, and clichéd, a bit like slap. And i count Jaco, wooten etc in with that lot as well, just so you know where im coming from.

Edited July 19, 2011 by dave_bass5

[4000]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1309305' date='Jul 19 2011, 04:11 PM']Thats called having a different opinion and if people dont want other opinion (and im sure they do) they really shouldn't post on a public web forum.[/quote]

Maybe, but I often think it might be more constructive if people didn't take it as yet another opportunity to argue over who's worthy and who isn't (and I'm also guilty as charged). These threads always end up the same and nobody ever gets anywhere.

Getting back to Tal, I have a dvd of the entire JB Crossroads set, and I think the playing on it is excellent. But of course that's only my opinion....

[wombatboter]

Funny discussion...
I've seen her play live here in Belgium and she was amàzing...
Before, I only knew the youtube vids and her solo-cd and I had my opinion (like a lot of you seem to have around here).
I was wrong, she was a lot better than I thought and it was one of those rare occasions that I wanted to stop playing bass after thirty years (and I've seen Wooten, Clarke, Berlin, Miller, Caron, etc...)
Go check her out live....you'll never write "she's good but not that good" again.

[chardbass]

Interesting thread.
My two penneth.

I would love to have her sense of musicality- a fine groover and a real natural musician.
If there was a reason for me to not buy her music its that I'm not a fan of her, IMHO, over-use of vibrato in her solos and I find her sound slightly stifled- almost over-smooth and compressed.

Similar kind of player to Nathan East and Pino in that they do the job (bloody well) without overplaying but still with a good degree of musicality. Technique not at the forefront of their playing. But for this kind of music East and Pino are first-call Gods.

Have to disagree with a previous post- she's not in the same league as Jeff Andrews, Tom Kennedy or Patitucci. They are completely different players- not a better league (they are IMO but just trying to avoid an argument), just a different league.

Didn't Jeff Beck use Rhonda Smith on his last UK visit? Maybe he enjoys the dynamic that a mixed-sex band has.

I sound like her f***ing headmaster but the bottomline is next to her I'm sh*t.
I'd love her talent... and her gigs!!!!!

[Rich]

The way I see it is --
Just because you're a} female & cute, and/or b} sharing domestic arrangements with someone well-known, it doesn't automatically mean you'll be successful and it is a bit daft to argue that this is the case.
Likewise, just because you have or had a gig with someone of Beck or Hancock's calibre, it doesn't automatically mean you are [b]great[/b]. There is a whole universe of difference between really good and great.
So -- talented, yes. Very good, yes. But great? No.

[4000]

Some of this is semantics. To me there's a big difference between describing somebody as a great bass player and describing them as a Great (bass player). Being the generation I am I describe many things as great; a great pizza, a great film, a great evening last night etc. That doesn't mean I think they were some of the best pizzas/films/evenings that have ever existed. Bass Greats IMO are very, very few and far between; maybe half a dozen people at most.

Having said that, just because someone is a Great doesn't mean you have to be a fan. You can (and probably should) acknowledge their impact but that doesn't mean you have to like them. Ultimately a great bassist may be far more important to you than a Great. Someone like Marcus is probably nearer a Great than Tal, but I'll take Tal's playing every time.

[Bottle]

I've seen this thread develop, and I thought I'd weigh in now

I can't understand the negativity - surely we should be celebrating the fact that a talented player has the stones to get up and play an instrument they love and are clearly enjoying playing with other talented musicians? And to do it for more than their own enjoyment (which is obvious from the video too), but to share that with other people?

Like or dislike her, it can't be argued that she's a very talented [i]musician[/i] with a nice solid groove and tasteful playing, i.e. it's not being overplayed in a look-at-me moment, but fits in with what the other musicians are playing. Trouble is, the bass guitar is not a great instrument for virtuoso performances, which can detract from its real purpose - to lay down a solid bridge between the rhythm and melody. I think Tal does this brilliantly (and, yes, I'll accept that there are better players out there), but her playing is tasteful and [i]appropriat[/i]e to the music. I think some other players can get carried away with the whole [i]hey-look-I-just-did-twelve-bars-of-32nds[/i] kind of mentality and ego.

And she's young, and has her whole career ahead of her to become 'great' - I think she's acheived a lot in such a short span of time already.

Ian

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Bottle' post='1311498' date='Jul 21 2011, 01:24 PM']t-did-twelve-bars-of-32nds[/i] kind of mentality and ego.

And she's young, and has her whole career ahead of her to become 'great' - I think she's acheived a lot in such a short span of time already.

Ian[/quote]

...and she has a nice right tit

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='1311530' date='Jul 21 2011, 01:54 PM']right tit [/quote]

So we're back to discussing Jeff Berlin?

[lowdown]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='1311540' date='Jul 21 2011, 02:03 PM']So we're back to discussing Jeff Berlin?[/quote]


That would be a 44 DD cup then? [going by some opinions]




Garry

Edited July 21, 2011 by lowdown