davidmpires Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Evening So I'm now 28, and since I was 16 I've played in covers bands, trios or some sort of outfit playing covers. I never learned to read, and can't learn a tune by ear. I blagged my way through bands, by learning the chords from the guitar player or using tabs, which I still do. Last year in April I played my last gig, and since then I've been without a band mostly by choice though. But now after a year without playing I start to feel the bug again and slowly start to make my way into bass. But I realise that I'm a fake and that I can't cut it as a player. I would like to play originals with a band or with a singer but my first problem would be to learn songs that are already written, since I can't learn by ear. At the same time I thought of selling the rest of my stuff, (i sold a bass and a cab last year) and find something else to do since I've been a big fake for years. Alternativelly, I could just try to forget everything I learned so far and start from scratch, but I'm not sure how to. I'm in two minds really Any thoughts welcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMike Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Welcome to the 'fakers club' - I think it's a big one, and that the best musicians are just the biggest 'fakers' of all. They are so good it seems like they can 'fake' being able to play anything! As a fellow faker, my position is this - if a bass player can play his part, it doesn't matter how long it took to get there or how much work 'out of sight'. When people sometimes compliment me on my playing, I hold back a giggle thinking 'you don't know how crap I really am, and how much practice I had to do to cover it up'. My first suggestion would be - get a teacher. A good teacher will be able to make an assessment of your strengths and weaknesses, and direct your efforts towards where it'll make the most difference. And what makes you think you can't learn a song by ear? - anyone can do it, it just comes down to how long it takes. If it's a matter of some tone-deafness - I have that too. Often I can't tell the difference between the 'correct' note and one that is 'in harmony' with it (especially if it's not the root). A teacher can help in this regard too. For some musicians learning by ear is easy; for the rest of us, your ear needs some / a lot of training. I feel as though I should know more theory, should be able to play better, should know more songs. This is because music is an open-ended experience; it's never 'finished'. This can be overwhelming if you only consider what you can't do, but more helpful is to consider what you *can* do, what you want to be able to do, and how to connect these two points (via practice, learning, listening, band experience etc). Don't forget what you know, but perhaps *do* start learning some 'basics' and - eventually - what you know already and the 'basics' will meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 [quote name='OzMike' post='1186451' date='Apr 3 2011, 05:43 AM']Welcome to the 'fakers club'[/quote] Proud member here too! [quote name='OzMike' post='1186451' date='Apr 3 2011, 05:43 AM']When people sometimes compliment me on my playing, I hold back a giggle thinking 'you don't know how crap I really am, and how much practice I had to do to cover it up'. [/quote] Yep this is very familiar to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 +1 on this Also, at the ripe old age of 45 I am taking lessons. You begin to be able to put what you know into some sort of context. Hang in there and keep faking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Proud member of the Fakers club here - been where you are now many times - keep at it and you'll reach the heady heights of the Blaggers club that I'm now also a member of (main difference is that blaggers keep a straight face while they play rubbish ) There's no secret - there's only practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 [quote name='bob_pickard' post='1186464' date='Apr 3 2011, 07:17 AM']blaggers keep a straight face while they play rubbish [/quote] I'm just beginning to grasp that one! A good tip would be to get an Ampeg SVT rig and play in a metal band. You'll have a fantastic sound but nobody will hear your mistakes no matter how badly you play ... If only I knew that 2 years ago! Thanks to my midrange focused markbass cabs I actually have to practice before gigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Another faker here. If you got away with it for 12 yrs without anyone spotting it you must be good ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 know just how you feel.....blagged my way through gigs many a time in past....but aint played in a band now for bout four years....a combination of working permenent nights, no transport, to much blaggin n fakin it.....been an old fart.....and sh*te to boot....think my days are numbered....lol.....keep at it mate...never say never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rOB Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 [quote name='OzMike' post='1186451' date='Apr 3 2011, 05:43 AM']Welcome to the 'fakers club' - I think it's a big one, and that the best musicians are just the biggest 'fakers' of all. They are so good it seems like they can 'fake' being able to play anything! As a fellow faker, my position is this - if a bass player can play his part, it doesn't matter how long it took to get there or how much work 'out of sight'. When people sometimes compliment me on my playing, I hold back a giggle thinking 'you don't know how crap I really am, and how much practice I had to do to cover it up'. My first suggestion would be - get a teacher. A good teacher will be able to make an assessment of your strengths and weaknesses, and direct your efforts towards where it'll make the most difference. And what makes you think you can't learn a song by ear? - anyone can do it, it just comes down to how long it takes. If it's a matter of some tone-deafness - I have that too. Often I can't tell the difference between the 'correct' note and one that is 'in harmony' with it (especially if it's not the root). A teacher can help in this regard too. For some musicians learning by ear is easy; for the rest of us, your ear needs some / a lot of training. I feel as though I should know more theory, should be able to play better, should know more songs. This is because music is an open-ended experience; it's never 'finished'. This can be overwhelming if you only consider what you can't do, but more helpful is to consider what you *can* do, what you want to be able to do, and how to connect these two points (via practice, learning, listening, band experience etc). Don't forget what you know, but perhaps *do* start learning some 'basics' and - eventually - what you know already and the 'basics' will meet.[/quote] +1 to all this. Don't give up, just think about changing your approach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee4 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) I've played covers and originals as a faker of 25 years. With covers,you have to learn someone elses lines,but the joy of original material is that you are free to put together the best bits of other peoples work and present it as brand new . Seriously though,every thing we play has probably been played before.We learn to be original by copying and then reassembling what we have learnt. Learn some music theory,however basic,know your limitations,and then try to exceed them. Above all,DO NOT GIVE UP PLAYING BASS! Edited April 3, 2011 by lee4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gafbass02 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Another faker here. I know how you feel. keep plugging away mate, so many people would love to be able to do what you do, be in a band and gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkonthehill Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 So it turns out that when I started playing bass I had to give up my self confidence as well!!!!! I say all you stop wishing for a hug and someone to tell you your loved and just play your bloody bass. I know what I can do and what I cant do on bass and I love trying new styles and even things as basic as scales/modes. If you play bass, you play bass. shouldnt you just be happy with that? Whats all this nonsense about fakers? Is someone playing the bass for you or are you miming over a recording? Man up men. WE ARE BASS PLAYERS........................BE PROUD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Highly qualified faker here... Proud of my faking abilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 One of the most important parts of playing an instrument is playing live, you've obviously been doing that for years with no problems so don't give up. I'd say make a start with some ear training first.... something really simple or you'll get frustrated. Don't worry too much if you don't get a perfect transcription at the first attempt, you'll probably be away from your bass one day with the tune going through your head and you'll suddenly know where you've got it wrong and get some ideas to fix it. The more you do it, the easier it'll become. You can work on your ear training too to speed up the process. Make a start on some music theory.... first learn the note names all over your bass if you don't know them already. And I mean really learn them so you don't have to think about it at all. Learning theory is very difficult if you're fumbling around finding notes or can't immediately tell what it is you're playing, you'll end up relying on patterns and shapes again. Most of the top players say that to really improve you have play music with people far more talented and musical advanced than you're current level. This involves being a faker and seeing if you can get away with it Basically, if we're challenging ourselves musically then we should be faking it. The trick is to progress to faking it at higher and higher levels, because there's always going to be someone who knows more about music that we can be learning from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonshelley01 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 [quote name='Fat Rich' post='1186545' date='Apr 3 2011, 10:06 AM']Most of the top players say that to really improve you have play music with people far more talented and musical advanced than you're current level. This involves being a faker and seeing if you can get away with it Basically, if we're challenging ourselves musically then we should be faking it. The trick is to progress to faking it at higher and higher levels, because there's always going to be someone who knows more about music that we can be learning from.[/quote] +1 Playing with other musicians always pushes you to learn in order to keep up. I have loads of instructional books/DVDs etc., but have always felt I have learnt more in a jam/rehearsal with other people. I try learn a couple of new songs a week to get ideas/riffs and then just incorporate it into my basslines. NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigster Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 [quote name='munkonthehill' post='1186539' date='Apr 3 2011, 10:00 AM']So it turns out that when I started playing bass I had to give up my self confidence as well!!!!! I say all you stop wishing for a hug and someone to tell you your loved and just play your bloody bass. I know what I can do and what I cant do on bass and I love trying new styles and even things as basic as scales/modes. If you play bass, you play bass. shouldnt you just be happy with that? Whats all this nonsense about fakers? Is someone playing the bass for you or are you miming over a recording? Man up men. WE ARE BASS PLAYERS........................BE PROUD.[/quote] +1 and squeeze your buttocks together and shout 'Yeah!" We put too much pressure on what we 'think' fits and forget that music is music is music and art is art etc etc - there are no rights or wrongs, just always other ways of doing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkThrust Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='davidmpires' post='1186386' date='Apr 3 2011, 01:03 AM']I blagged my way through bands, by learning the chords from the guitar player or using tabs, which I still do. Last year in April I played my last gig, and since then I've been without a band mostly by choice though. But now after a year without playing I start to feel the bug again and slowly start to make my way into bass. But I realise that I'm a fake and that I can't cut it as a player. I would like to play originals with a band or with a singer but my first problem would be to learn songs that are already written, since I can't learn by ear. At the same time I thought of selling the rest of my stuff, (i sold a bass and a cab last year) and find something else to do since I've been a big fake for years.[/quote] This pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about my playing but ironically most guys I've been in with bands think I'm quite a good musician. I guess there are worse fakers around Edited April 3, 2011 by AndyMartin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 [quote]Whats all this nonsense about fakers? Is someone playing the bass for you or are you miming over a recording?[/quote] +1 I'm not buying this "fake" thing. You played bass in bands, that makes you a bass player - so if you're not happy with your current skill set then, like anything else in life, you just have to work a little harder until you are happy. Working out songs by ear is kinda fun - and seems to be one of those things that gets easier everytime you do it. Just start there if it's something you'd like to be able to do. If you quit for such trivial (i.e. fixable) reasons, you'll really regret it one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmpires Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 Thanks guys. Seems like I'm not the only one then. I know some theory, Modes...and I know my way around the fretboard, but the learning by ear gets me everytime. At the moment cash is short to get some lessons, so I'll have to learn it in some other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkThrust Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 [quote name='davidmpires' post='1186611' date='Apr 3 2011, 11:34 AM']but the learning by ear gets me everytime.[/quote] Like most things I've found that learning by ear gets easier with practise. After a while you will be able to hear a note and know where it is on the fretboard without having to noodle around to find the right one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 [quote name='Fat Rich' post='1186545' date='Apr 3 2011, 10:06 AM']Most of the top players say that to really improve you have play music with people far more talented and musical advanced than you're current level. This involves being a faker and seeing if you can get away with it [/quote] Depending on the guys that your playing with,you may not be able to fake it-or you may be able to once or twice,but that's it. If you feel like you don't belong in a situation you won't cut it,and if you do you have to prove it. Get your ear together-turn the radio and play along to everything. Also learn to read,even at a basic level-it will make a huge difference to your playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Doddy' post='1186624' date='Apr 3 2011, 11:54 AM']Depending on the guys that your playing with,you may not be able to fake it-or you may be able to once or twice,but that's it. If you feel like you don't belong in a situation you won't cut it,and if you do you have to prove it. ....[/quote] I've never managed to get away with it but I didn't want to put people off Edited April 3, 2011 by Fat Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzaboy Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Fakers club? Where do I sign in!! I think that most of us don`t think that we are that great, I certinly don`t. But I played a gig a few weeks ago with another band watching our every move and afterwards their keyboard/guitar player complimented me on my playing. Maybe he was just being nice but it gave me a lift for a few days. Don`t jack it in, you will only regret it in the future. We are bass players, so get out there and keep on Faking it!! Jez Fakers Club Member 7. (I see these stupid clubs on Talkbass all the time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Go to the theory part of this forum. I bang on about the Majors Boot Camp but it is excellent and is a great source of reference. I think you have just hit a wall. We all do. You need to take yourself on and get to the next level. The fact that you have realised this is the hardest part so good for you. All musos are fakers to some extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Like Doddy says learning to read will help out a lot and get your ear in, Im a total novice but trying to workout a song you like and putting it down on the staff will train your ear no end IMO. Join in on our Bass Clef YTS thread in general bass chat to get some good pointers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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