Same old, same old

[cd_david]

Its a weird one this, nothing more than me thinking out loud.

I have had the same old rack set up for about 18-20 years. All decent but simple stuff that's available in on head amp package now, comp, eq and BBE. I have also always carried big heavy boxes for cabs.

Maybe Im lucky and hit on a sound I like but I have no inclination to buy or try anything else out. To be honest its my sound and i know it so well, anyone else's rig I've played through just doesn't have the detail i can hear in mine, but that's all subjective.

Anyway my thoughts were about the large turn over in new amps and cabs in this forum. Is it buy and then try due to lack of suitable listening environments in shops, if so why isn't there a greater use of "loan" stock like the Barefaced cab that's doing the rounds?

Is it technology or fashion, I'm not knocking just wondering. I have no idea but it must be expensive, anyway mull over.

Edited February 16, 2011 by cd_david

[Musicman20]

I used the same setup for years. I still think you cant beat an lead sled solid state or full tube amp for sheer power. Something seems different to me with the smaller amps, but the RH450 definitely gets super close.

Now Ive started it, Ive got a little bit addicted to trying new amps/cabs. I have however, hit a very nice collection, and thats it for now. Im spending on the basses I have coming in and thats it for a good year or so.

Part of it is 'check out this new amp, its better than your old one', then you get it, and it isnt. But some of them are stunning....it just takes time to find the one(s) that work for you.

[lemmywinks]

It's a trend, happens with every hobby/profession.
There's always people who have to have the latest toy that comes out when the one they already have does the job just fine. My old fella works in a fishing shop and it's the same there - people sell all their year-old kit which is good as new for the "improved" model which is pretty much the same, just because it's new and they have to have it.


Works out fine for the rest of us as the influx of gear on the used market means we have loads of second hand gear to choose from and prices are forced down.
When i bought my LMII used there was one or two on here every week, i literally decided i wanted one and browsed the FS section for 2 minutes, a few days later i had a nearly new amp for a fraction of the new price.

[wateroftyne]

I've just sold my TC RH450 after about a year purely on a whim. There's nowt wrong with the amp... I just fancied a change.

Y'see, my cabs and basses are, for my needs, perfect and untouchable.

Therefore, all that's left to experiment with is the amp, strap and cables.

Amps have more pretty lights on them, so that's what gets sacrificed.

[gary mac]

As Lemmywinks, I was about to use fishing as an example. It's particularly prevalent in the carp fishing world, especially with rods, reels and bivvies, some of which are hugely expensive and almost certainly not good value. But certain makes become must haves. Same with hi-fi enthusiasts, koi keepers and just about every hobby that is catered for.

[Bilbo]

I think there is an argument that some players (not all by any means) are trying to 'buy' talent and, rather than working on legitimate, tried and tested methods of musical learning, try and adress their shortcomings by buying gear. I heard even Guy Pratt talking about a bass with a 'fast neck'. I don't care how fast the neck is, if a player has no musical knolwedge and lacks core competences like time etc, a 'fast neck' ain't going to solve the problem.

I make no secret of the fact that most of the talk on here about gear is irrelevant nonsense - there is a thread on here about the best material to make a nut out of (walnut, obviously). What possible difference can that make to anything? I get that you get more sustain from this or that material but how many times a night do you hit a note that sustains long enough for that to matter? In fact, you are as likely to NOT want it to sustain. I think its all smoke and mirrors. I can't tell the difference in sound between a Jazz and a Precision or a Ken Smith or a Fodera. I [i]can[/i] tell the difference between a Dorian minor and a Phrygian minor. [i]That[/i] matters. But an ebony vs plastic nut? As important as the colour of your lead, methinks.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1129320' date='Feb 16 2011, 10:19 AM']I think there is an argument that some players (not all by any means) are trying to 'buy' talent and, rather than working on legitimate, tried and tested methods of musical learning, try and adress their shortcomings by buying gear. I heard even Guy Pratt talking about a bass with a 'fast neck'. I don't care how fast the neck is, if a player has no musical knolwedge and lacks core competences like time etc, a 'fast neck' ain't going to solve the problem.

I make no secret of the fact that most of the talk on here about gear is irrelevant nonsense - there is a thread on here about the best material to make a nut out of (walnut, obviously). What possible difference can that make to anything? I get that you get more sustain from this or that material but how many times a night do you hit a note that sustains long enough for that to matter? In fact, you are as likely to NOT want it to sustain. I think its all smoke and mirrors. I can't tell the difference in sound between a Jazz and a Precision or a Ken Smith or a Fodera. I [i]can[/i] tell the difference between a Dorian minor and a Phrygian minor. [i]That[/i] matters. But an ebony vs plastic nut? As important as the colour of your lead, methinks.[/quote]

Great post. I need to play more.

[Hot Tub]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1129320' date='Feb 16 2011, 10:19 AM']I think there is an argument that some players (not all by any means) are trying to 'buy' talent and, rather than working on legitimate, tried and tested methods of musical learning, try and adress their shortcomings by buying gear. I heard even Guy Pratt talking about a bass with a 'fast neck'. I don't care how fast the neck is, if a player has no musical knolwedge and lacks core competences like time etc, a 'fast neck' ain't going to solve the problem.

I make no secret of the fact that most of the talk on here about gear is irrelevant nonsense - there is a thread on here about the best material to make a nut out of (walnut, obviously). What possible difference can that make to anything? I get that you get more sustain from this or that material but how many times a night do you hit a note that sustains long enough for that to matter? In fact, you are as likely to NOT want it to sustain. I think its all smoke and mirrors. I can't tell the difference in sound between a Jazz and a Precision or a Ken Smith or a Fodera. I [i]can[/i] tell the difference between a Dorian minor and a Phrygian minor. [i]That[/i] matters. But an ebony vs plastic nut? As important as the colour of your lead, methinks.[/quote]


Definitely, definitely, definitely +1

In fact, + lots of 1s!

Having gone through this myself over the last 2-3 years (thankfully I pretty much broke even financially), I can say hand on heart that it's the musician that matters. It might be lovely having that warm valve sound, but buried under the rest of the band? Who's gonna notice? Or care?

[thumperbob 2002]

Good post this one. Pretty amazed Bilbo cant tell the difference between a Jazz and P though certainly a Jazz can sound like a P in a band setting- dont know about the other way round?

Totally agree about how important playing is and really accept that people do try to buy "talent", hoping that it will be some shortcut.

I had a guy working for me who was building up a client base and the first thing he did was to buy a very expensive lap top, hoping he would get his client bank from the internet. Never ever works- he just wanted a shortcut without paying his dues and being out of his comfort zone- he didnt last long.

There is one point I would like to make and that is technology does have an impact- weight is the most important one I can think of- there is no reason someone would have an SVT and 8 X 10 cab when a lightweight rig with Sansamp or Bass Pod will sound the same.

[Earbrass]

I think Bilbo's pretty much nailed it, but I'd suggest that what a lot of players are trying to buy is not 'talent' so much as the quick consumer-high that choosing and buying new toys brings. It never lasts, of course, and another hit is required sooner or later. The quest for "that sound" or whatever is so often simply the way we justify our addiction to ourselves.

[BassBod]

I've been lucky recently, and managed to set up, side by side the nearest to a new/old comparison I could imagine.

Old - Alembic preamp, SWR power amp and Bag End 1x15.

New - Euphonic Audio Micro, Barefaced Midget 1x12.

Both are twin channel..portable..excellent (neutral-ish) sounding amps. Not loud rigs for rock gigs, but very capable for most situations. The old rig wins for sound, but weighs about 65lbs...the newer lacks some of the impact and warmth but weighs about 24lbs.

I can use either very happily, and sound like me. But the portability (and compactness) of the newer set up just makes my life a lot easier for the work I do at the moment.

[wateroftyne]

It's worth pointing out that I'm sure a few people who have posted on this thread will have been through a few basses recently..... whereas I haven't.

It's not specifically an amp / cab thing.

[Bilbo]

I change amps every 15 years, whether I need to or not. Basses, every 40 or so.

[stingrayfan]

Think it's just consumerism. Gear is (relatively) cheap these days and the temptation to trade up and on is easier.

But if you still enjoy what you got in the first place, that's great!

[risingson]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1129320' date='Feb 16 2011, 10:19 AM']I think there is an argument that some players (not all by any means) are trying to 'buy' talent and, rather than working on legitimate, tried and tested methods of musical learning, try and adress their shortcomings by buying gear. I heard even Guy Pratt talking about a bass with a 'fast neck'. I don't care how fast the neck is, if a player has no musical knolwedge and lacks core competences like time etc, a 'fast neck' ain't going to solve the problem.

I make no secret of the fact that most of the talk on here about gear is irrelevant nonsense - there is a thread on here about the best material to make a nut out of (walnut, obviously). What possible difference can that make to anything? I get that you get more sustain from this or that material but how many times a night do you hit a note that sustains long enough for that to matter? In fact, you are as likely to NOT want it to sustain. I think its all smoke and mirrors. I can't tell the difference in sound between a Jazz and a Precision or a Ken Smith or a Fodera. I [i]can[/i] tell the difference between a Dorian minor and a Phrygian minor. [i]That[/i] matters. But an ebony vs plastic nut? As important as the colour of your lead, methinks.[/quote]

I completely agree with this post. I would add that even the difference between playing a Squier and a Fodera is also very small for me, as most of the audience aren't going to notice the £5000 price difference in the looks, playability and sound of the basses. What new gear does do is give a player a brief surge of wellbeing which is great, but gear should only ever augment you skills as a player and not the other way round.

[Martin E]

Just for lightness and size alone modern amps and cabs get my thumbs up. Changing all the old heavy gear I'd used for donkeys years was the best thing I've done but strangely it doesn't seem to have improved my playing one bit...

[gary mac]

A valid point for me, although it tends to apply more to instruments than amps/cabs etc. is that a new/different bass has often inspired my playing and instead of sitting down and noodling about with the same old riffs, patterns, scales, I've gone off in a different direction.

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1129320' date='Feb 16 2011, 10:19 AM']I think there is an argument that some players (not all by any means) are trying to 'buy' talent and, rather than working on legitimate, tried and tested methods of musical learning, try and adress their shortcomings by buying gear. I heard even Guy Pratt talking about a bass with a 'fast neck'. I don't care how fast the neck is, if a player has no musical knolwedge and lacks core competences like time etc, a 'fast neck' ain't going to solve the problem.

I make no secret of the fact that most of the talk on here about gear is irrelevant nonsense - there is a thread on here about the best material to make a nut out of (walnut, obviously). What possible difference can that make to anything? I get that you get more sustain from this or that material but how many times a night do you hit a note that sustains long enough for that to matter? In fact, you are as likely to NOT want it to sustain. I think its all smoke and mirrors. I can't tell the difference in sound between a Jazz and a Precision or a Ken Smith or a Fodera. I [i]can[/i] tell the difference between a Dorian minor and a Phrygian minor. [i]That[/i] matters. But an ebony vs plastic nut? As important as the colour of your lead, methinks.[/quote]

Very good points made. I have contributed to the 'nut material' thread in what I felt at the time was a helpful way but afterwards I thought I really should have said "I'll consider the importance of this item when an old biddy comes up to me at the end of a gig to comment that my playing was pretty good but she felt that my sound would have been better had I had a Corian nut fitted".

[Bilbo]

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' post='1129361' date='Feb 16 2011, 10:57 AM']Pretty amazed Bilbo cant tell the difference between a Jazz and P.....[/quote]

I cope

[Musicman20]

I have changed a lot of gear the past year or two. I have finally got the amps that really work for me, and Im not gambling on anymore for a long time.

Basses? Almost there. Fender J, then Im done for a few years.

[dmccombe7]

Lot of valid points raised and agree with majority.
In olden times when I were a lad you had one good bass, normally Fender or Rick and one good amp either Marshall or Fender.
There wasn't as much choice and therefore no need to buy and try lots of gear.
Aaah life was simple then !!!!!

As pointed out earlier gear is (relatively) cheap these days especially with BC forums and ebay to make it very easy to buy & sell without the middle man making a profit.

Again there aren't the same number of outlets to try gear before buying. In many cases its easier to buy 2nd hand on-line in some form or another and if you don't like it sell on for much same price as paid.
No harm in that I guess ?

The big advantage nowadays is the fact that you can get hands on advice and guidance from forums like BC whereby you can make some kind of basic judgement as to what works well before you travel a distance to try in a shop. You can narrow the choice down to a few tried and tested items ie Markbass LMII and Aguilar GS112. BC'ers regularly comment on how well this combination works and that helps people like me when I look for new gear.

Note :- This will be my preferred choice when I start looking in next few months.

Cheers
Dave

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='cd_david' post='1129291' date='Feb 16 2011, 09:52 AM']Its a weird one this, nothing more than me thinking out loud.

I have had the same old rack set up for about 18-20 years. All decent but simple stuff that's available in on head amp package now, comp, eq and BBE. I have also always carried big heavy boxes for cabs.

Maybe Im lucky and hit on a sound I like but I have no inclination to buy or try anything else out. To be honest its my sound and i know it so well, anyone else's rig I've played through just doesn't have the detail i can hear in mine, but that's all subjective.

Anyway my thoughts were about the large turn over in new amps and cabs in this forum. Is it buy and then try due to lack of suitable listening environments in shops, if so why isn't there a greater use of "loan" stock like the Barefaced cab that's doing the rounds?

Is it technology or fashion, I'm not knocking just wondering. I have no idea but it must be expensive, anyway mull over.[/quote]

I think some of the posts in this tread are unfair!

I had a new rig 18 months ago because the old Ashdown I had used for about 7 years was worn out, I had lots of important and well paid gigs where the intermittent fault was no going to be acceptable. I was quite happy collecting new basses and had my eye on another when it started to occur too often, No one had the answers without spending big money on it so it went and at the same time I ditched the weight improved the sound and upped the power what's wrong with that? I wasn't chasing the dream but obviously the better gear currently being praised is going to at least be worth a look as and when the time comes.

My amp is just a tool to me like a drill or hammer, I expect it to last a reasonable amount of time and if only being used in the bedroom that time should be a very long one but regular use at live gigs takes it toll.

[chris_b]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1130004' date='Feb 16 2011, 06:16 PM']....I think some of the posts in this tread are unfair!....[/quote]
I agree.

You can't buy talent but I think it's right that every musician will want to sound as good as they can, and that's what better or different gear can do for you.

I know a few drivers that deserve a ford escort based on their driving ability not the Merceedes they own!!

[risingson]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1130066' date='Feb 16 2011, 07:00 PM']You can't buy talent but I think it's right that every musician will want to sound as good as they can, and that's what better or different gear can do for you.[/quote]

I think it's fine for a bass player to want to feel as happy as possible on stage and I think that's what good gear can do for you, it's a big morale boost. But I see some players on some forums selling off basses, amps, cabs on an almost weekly basis in order for them to get the newest thing. It's their choice of course, and I wouldn't want to argue with them being allowed to buy whatever they want, but I do wonder what some people hope to achieve by doing this as in the end, they're still going to sound like the bass player in the band.

I do think that some people put too much stock into searching for some elusive tone that will forever escape them until they realise that it's what they do musically that counts most of all.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1130066' date='Feb 16 2011, 07:00 PM']I agree.

You can't buy talent but I think it's right that every musician will want to sound as good as they can, and that's what better or different gear can do for you.

I know a few drivers that deserve a ford escort based on their driving ability not the Merceedes they own!![/quote]

Ooops better look for an Escort then - LOL !!!

Dave