Why are there not many kickback amps around?

[rOB]

This may be a stupid question and I may be being particularly dense or displaying my lack of experience here (both very possible) but why aren't there more kickback/wedge shaped amps/cabs on sale?

It seems that most gigs I go to or play at the bass is put through the PA in which case the amp is really only for stage sound. PA monitors are mostly wedges so why are most combos and cabinets straight (is that the right word) designs? Unless you're using a cabinet stand or have a tallish stack then isn't most of your sound being projected at your legs/waist?

Any wisdom to be shared on this would be appreciated.

Cheers, Rob

Edited November 16, 2010 by rOB

[icastle]

[quote name='rOB' post='1022273' date='Nov 13 2010, 11:07 AM']This may be a stupid question and I may be being particularly dense or displaying my lack of experience here (both very possible) but why aren't there more kickback/wedge shaped amps/cabs on sale?

It seems that most gigs I go to or play at the bass is put through the PA in which case the amp is really only for stage sound. PA monitors are mostly wedges so why are most combos and cabinets straight (is that the right word) designs? Unless you're using a cabinet stand or have a tallish stack then isn't most of your sound being projected at your legs/waist?

Any wisdom to be shared on this would be appreciated.

Cheers, Rob[/quote]

It's the way it has generally always been.
Having said that, Ampeg, Behringer, Fender, Gallien Kruger, Hartke, Eden, Laney and SWR all make angled combo's, so there are more choices out there than you might have imagined...

Edited November 13, 2010 by icastle

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Maybe they don't sell as people don't think they look as cool

[icastle]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1022346' date='Nov 13 2010, 01:13 PM']Maybe they don't sell as people don't think they look as cool[/quote]

Possibly.
Got to say that although I've seen them in various shops I've never seen one being used in real life (whatever that may be!).

[xgsjx]

My MB combo is of kickback design. I've only used it once as a monitor in this position tho as I normally have it standing vertically.

[icastle]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1022354' date='Nov 13 2010, 01:20 PM']My MB combo is of kickback design. I've only used it once as a monitor in this position tho as I normally have it standing vertically.[/quote]

Ah - [i][b]stealth kickbacks[/b][/i]- I hadn't thought of that permutation...


<cough> I don't [b][i]think[/i][/b] I've seen many kickback amps used...

[Guest MoJo]

I gigged regularly with a Hartke Kickback 12 (I also DI into the desk). Foolishly sold it in my quest for more power but happily have another on the way. Won't be selling this one

[ThomBassmonkey]

I've used GK RBH cabs for the last (almost) year and I don't think I've ever really used them tilted back. Partially because with the 2 2x10s I've had them stacked so they have the height and partially because it's handy to be able to put the head on top (which I wouldn't feel safe doing if it was tilted back). Plus the 410RBH doesn't look especially safe when tilted back, I've wobbled it while it's been tilted back and it feels solid, but I wouldn't feel happy gigging it in that position.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='rOB' post='1022273' date='Nov 13 2010, 06:07 AM']why aren't there more kickback/wedge shaped amps/cabs on sale?[/quote]
Because you can't place a pint atop it.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1022450' date='Nov 13 2010, 02:19 PM']Because you can't place a pint atop it. [/quote]
No one puts a pint on top of my rig no matter how level it is

[Dood]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1022493' date='Nov 13 2010, 02:54 PM']No one puts a pint on top of my rig no matter how level it is[/quote]

Last person to do that to my rig is sleeping it off under my patio!

[Mr. Foxen]

Kickback shape means more cuts and joints, and compromised internal area, so more work, more wood, more cost, for a compromised amp, that is bigger to pack and ship.

[Cat Burrito]

I had a kickback Ampeg combo and I found it hugely unstable. It was funny watching my cats jump up on it - it'd really freak them out! Ultimately though I thought it was a far better idea on paper than in reality

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1022493' date='Nov 13 2010, 09:54 AM']No one puts a pint on top of my rig no matter how level it is[/quote]
Ah, you prefer a fifth then?
Perhaps a bit OT, but if you can't put a pint or whatever atop your rig without it doing St. Vitus dance it indicates insufficient bracing of the cab. Aside from the issues of where to put your drink any energy expended in vibrating cabinet walls is energy not making it's way to the audience as sound. The two corners most often cut by cab manufacturers are bracing and damping, as you can't see if they're properly in the cab without opening it up.
Tilt backs are a good idea in a combo, as combos should be tilted back so you can hear the mids. The reason for a dearth of them is the same reason why most acoustically valid concepts see limited usage, and that would be how it looks.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1022493' date='Nov 13 2010, 02:54 PM']No one puts a pint on top of my rig no matter how level it is[/quote]
No one puts a pint on mine except me and only then, no one puts a FULL pint on it!

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1022346' date='Nov 13 2010, 02:13 PM']Maybe they don't sell as people don't think they look as cool[/quote]

Exactly.

For most decent pub bands with bass through the PA they're a great idea, especially if you want to keep backline levels sensible. I could have done with one last night on the small stage at The Lion in Cas Vegas.

[Kiwi]

I loved my GK RB700 combo and for small stages the tiltback feature was invaluable for getting sound to my ears. Otherwise the amp would be blasting into the audience below my knees. I'd still have it if it hadn't started giving me back problems.

I've been approaching custom cabinet makers over the years with requests to build a lightweight tiltback cab and strangely enough noones interested. Ended up doing the initial design for one myself but haven't got the power tools yet to start.

[skankdelvar]

Why not fit a set of Fender tiltback legs? £50? And piggyback clips and screws if you're running a head / cab arrangement. Another £50 imported?

[steve-soar]

[quote name='dood' post='1022502' date='Nov 13 2010, 02:58 PM']Last person to do that to my rig is sleeping it off under my patio![/quote]Last time that happened to me was last year at a gig in Llandudno. My guitist at the time saw it and went over to have a "word". He is 6'6" and built like a quaterback. It was funny to see a group of about 6 grown men move away from the right of the stage.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1022748' date='Nov 13 2010, 07:35 PM']Why not fit a set of Fender tiltback legs? £50? And piggyback clips and screws if you're running a head / cab arrangement. Another £50 imported?[/quote]
Legs don't achieve enough angle for me. I'm nearly 2m tall and on small stages have to stand next to the amp.

A stand could be one solution (assuming one can be found to take the weight of a cab) but then that would be an extra bit of kit that needs loading/unloading and setting up. I think a tiltback cab is a much more efficient and stable solution.

[thisnameistaken]

A mate of mine had a little Ampeg combo for a while, it had a flip-top head in it and a 15, and inside there was a metal leg that you could screw into the back of the cab and tilt it back onto that. Sounded brilliant too.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1022683' date='Nov 13 2010, 05:45 PM']Ah, you prefer a fifth then?
Perhaps a bit OT, but if you can't put a pint or whatever atop your rig without it doing St. Vitus dance it indicates insufficient bracing of the cab. Aside from the issues of where to put your drink any energy expended in vibrating cabinet walls is energy not making it's way to the audience as sound. The two corners most often cut by cab manufacturers are bracing and damping, as you can't see if they're properly in the cab without opening it up.
Tilt backs are a good idea in a combo, as combos should be tilted back so you can hear the mids. The reason for a dearth of them is the same reason why most acoustically valid concepts see limited usage, and that would be how it looks.[/quote]
I recall I couldn't leave anything like a tuner or my watch on top of my old Ashdown rig without it falling off after a while, but having a cab braced up to its eyeballs won't stop people from stumbling into things.

[Hobbayne]

Its funny i should stumble across this thread! I just recently got this Behringer 180 watt kickback combo for small pub gigs, its not brilliant but Digital Villiage are knocking em out for 150 quid!

[url="http://www.dv247.com/guitars/behringer-bxl1800-ultrabass-bass-guitar-amp-combo--34417&quot;&quot;%20target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://www.dv247.com/guitars/behringer-bxl...bo--34417&quot;&lt;/a&gt;"]Here[/url]

Edited November 13, 2010 by Hobbayne

[rOB]

Wow didn't really expect any response to this question. Thanks everyone.

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='1022714' date='Nov 13 2010, 06:03 PM']I've been approaching custom cabinet makers over the years with requests to build a lightweight tiltback cab and strangely enough noones interested. Ended up doing the initial design for one myself but haven't got the power tools yet to start.[/quote]

Would be very interested in hearing how this goes. Any chance of a build thread in the future?


[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1022748' date='Nov 13 2010, 06:35 PM']Why not fit a set of Fender tiltback legs? £50? And piggyback clips and screws if you're running a head / cab arrangement. Another £50 imported?[/quote]

mm tempting. Anyone have any experience of how stable these are?

[markstuk]

I use a "Heavy Duty" Tiger amp stand for my Ashdown Mag300 Combo - works fine and cost about £20 off evilbay.. Works a treat..

It can be adjusted for height/stability...

Edited November 14, 2010 by markstuk